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Author Topic: Sony stop to make the medium format sensors?  (Read 13238 times)

ErikKaffehr

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Re: Sony stop to make the medium format sensors?
« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2016, 02:40:07 pm »

Hi,

With AF, I think that viewfinders are built for viewing more than focusing.

On the Hasselblad V 555/ELD I have a slit image viewfinder, that is dead accurate when focusing on something smooth as a flagpole, but pretty useless on something more textured like the trunk of a tree. I use it with a 3X monocular, so I have something 9X magnification.

IMHO, the best way to focus is magnified live view. It may be that you need to focus stopped down, as there is often a focus shift when stopping down.

Best regards
Erik




Hi Joe,

Standard? For which widest aperture (assuming focusing at fully opened aperture)?
Split/micro-prisms work best at a given aperture, and go dark when (usually) narrower apertures are used.

Cheers,
Bart
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Rob C

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Re: Sony stop to make the medium format sensors?
« Reply #21 on: May 26, 2016, 03:41:06 pm »

Hi Joe,

Standard? For which widest aperture (assuming focusing at fully opened aperture)?
Split/micro-prisms work best at a given aperture, and go dark when (usually) narrower apertures are used.

Cheers,
Bart

I never had a lens that didn't work perfectly with a split-image screen; I never did expect to work with the lens stopped down and then try to use the split, when of course it would darken. That's not how you use it. I did not like the micro-prism surrounds: they just got in the way.

Something that drove me nuts: the chequered screens only came with a split-image centre if they were for slow lenses, for some logically contrary, misbegotten reason. I wrote to Nikon about that and even in the film days, it was impossible to get a reply to the actual question being asked - all I got was the reply to a question I had not posed. And even those non-split-image chequered screens didn't have enough lines. My old Rolleiflex TLR had a great chequered screen; more than enough lines for anything I asked of it.

A chequered screen was a godsend when shooting models against a sea skline. For some reason, it was far more difficult for me to get them right as verticals - probably too short a baseline to form a good impression of level.

Rob C

BJL

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Sony abandons plans to start making high-functionality camera modules
« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2016, 04:35:17 pm »

Reading more carefully, this is Sony announcing a decision to abandon plans to enter a new product category, not to do with abandoning any current product or any category of sensor, be it for phones or SLRs of DMF. The source also contradicts any speculation about a decline in demand for its phone camera sensors from Apple or anyone else, despite some people jumping to the familiar "iPhone is doomed" Schadenfreude interpretation.

From the actual source, page 11 of http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/library/fr/20160524_sonyspeech.pdf
Quote
After reconsidering the long-term prospects for the business, we have decided to terminate the development and production of high-functionality camera modules for external sale which we were preparing to mass produce at Kumamoto TEC. . . .

As for image sensors for mobile, which have not been directly impacted by the earthquakes, we believe profitability for the full fiscal year will decrease significantly year-on-year . . . However, orders from the customers we lost in the summer of last year, due to our inability to supply them, are steadily returning, and we expect to see a certain degree of recovery due to this return, in the second half of the fiscal year.
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Ken R

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Re: Sony stop to make the medium format sensors?
« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2016, 05:10:20 pm »

Let's put this one to rest.  I have spoken to sources that know and the medium format chip business is very important to Sony and they will not stop making these chips.  Yes the earthquake caused some shipping delays but things are coming back on line.  So, bottom line nothing changes.

Thanks Kevin.

I think quite a few of the frequent forum members who continuously post about the demise of medium format digital (and actually might be wishing for it, mainly due to their hate for the high prices of MFD) actually might need some mental healthcare (antidepressants).

Some proof of that is that the doom and gloom crowd has not let up given that the medium format digital camera landscape is stunning nowadays and better than ever. The XF (only a dream just a short while ago) is out there and the H6D as well, never mind the 645Z and the Leica S. The Sony 50mp and 100mp CMOS sensors have proven to be stunning and also the newer 60 and 80mp dalsa sensors continue to produce great results. Even the older Kodak sensors are being used to produce top level imagery by quite a few. So there are plenty of choices in MFD today in a wide range of prices when you include used gear.   
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synn

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Re: Sony stop to make the medium format sensors?
« Reply #24 on: June 03, 2016, 03:43:51 am »

Thanks Kevin.

I think quite a few of the frequent forum members who continuously post about the demise of medium format digital (and actually might be wishing for it, mainly due to their hate for the high prices of MFD) actually might need some mental healthcare (antidepressants).

Some proof of that is that the doom and gloom crowd has not let up given that the medium format digital camera landscape is stunning nowadays and better than ever. The XF (only a dream just a short while ago) is out there and the H6D as well, never mind the 645Z and the Leica S. The Sony 50mp and 100mp CMOS sensors have proven to be stunning and also the newer 60 and 80mp dalsa sensors continue to produce great results. Even the older Kodak sensors are being used to produce top level imagery by quite a few. So there are plenty of choices in MFD today in a wide range of prices when you include used gear.

Can you imagine a Kia user constantly complaining on a Ferrari forum about the price of the latter and never shutting about how much more fuel efficient, comfortable and reliable his ride is?

...yeah.
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Ken R

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Re: Sony stop to make the medium format sensors?
« Reply #25 on: June 03, 2016, 02:45:41 pm »

Can you imagine a Kia user constantly complaining on a Ferrari forum about the price of the latter and never shutting about how much more fuel efficient, comfortable and reliable his ride is?

...yeah.

Perfect analogy  8)
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Rob C

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Re: Sony stop to make the medium format sensors?
« Reply #26 on: June 03, 2016, 03:30:05 pm »

Perfect analogy  8)

I'd like to think so, Ken, but it isn't as simple as that... nothing ever is, sadly.

;-)

Rob

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Sony stop to make the medium format sensors?
« Reply #27 on: June 03, 2016, 04:04:44 pm »

Perfect analogy  8)

It's not fair to Ferrari, to need a comparison with a Kia to 'prove' some kind of superiority.
Or is it not really that much better, only more expensive ... ;)

Cheers,
Bart
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eronald

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Re: Sony stop to make the medium format sensors?
« Reply #28 on: June 03, 2016, 07:17:01 pm »

It's not fair to Ferrari, to need a comparison with a Kia to 'prove' some kind of superiority.
Or is it not really that much better, only more expensive ... ;)

Cheers,
Bart

Friend of mine used to buy small-run sports cars. At one point he had a Renault Alpine and I commented on the fall-apart quality of the interior. His response: "A door handle on a Ford gets more engineer design time than the engine of an Alpine". Well, maybe it wasn't true of the engine, but it was true of the whole interior.

It's clear that Canon and other consumer manufacturers invest a lot of work by very qualified engineers in improving the functionality of every part of their cameras. This engineering work is amortised across tens of millions of sales. Saying their work is worthless because the cameras are cheap is ridiculous, snobbish and just plain dumb: A good design, the right grip shape, or a good algorithm remains good regardless of the sales-price.

In fact, low-end tends to be better made than high-end quite often: No company can afford to see its low-end product fail and generate a mass recall.

Edmund

PS: I know a lot of smart people who drive our cheap european compacts in town - because that's what works best in crowded european cities. And I invite our MF friends to grab a Canon Rebel, play with it for an hour, take a couple of snaps of their four year old and then write here whether it is the Rebel or the world-famous Phase One DF which is the better-focusing and generally better designed camera. I know that when I got a used Rebel for $200 I couldn't believe how this shoddy piece of plastic worked so well, and when I stuck a $50 50mm f1.8  prime on it I got portrait images that easily matched anything I could coax out of a luxury compact camera, or even achieve with a 5D or equivalent with a kit zoom lens.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2016, 07:24:21 pm by eronald »
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Theodoros

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Re: Sony stop to make the medium format sensors?
« Reply #29 on: June 03, 2016, 08:39:48 pm »

It's not fair to Ferrari, to need a comparison with a Kia to 'prove' some kind of superiority.
Or is it not really that much better, only more expensive ... ;)

Cheers,
Bart

I think Synn means that P1 backs are Ferraris and all other Kia... It goes with the intelligence level... 
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eronald

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Re: Sony stop to make the medium format sensors?
« Reply #30 on: June 03, 2016, 08:44:50 pm »

I think Synn means that P1 backs are Ferraris and all other Kia... It goes with the intelligence level...

Theo, you don't need to point out the obvious :)

Edmund
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Ken Doo

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Re: Sony stop to make the medium format sensors?
« Reply #31 on: June 03, 2016, 08:48:39 pm »

It's really kinda presumptuous to assume that your "MF friends" haven't shot with other formats, camera systems, or dare we say forays into less expensive photographic ventures, including the Canon Rebel, micro 4/3, film cameras, et al. Same with cars for that matter.  But I'd place bets that most all of your MF friends also have other cameras/systems on the shelf besides medium format digital.  I like to think people buy what they want to simply because they can---and because it brings some sort value to them, whether for business or for personal enjoyment.

 :) ken

ErikKaffehr

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Re: Sony stop to make the medium format sensors?
« Reply #32 on: June 03, 2016, 11:41:09 pm »

Hi,

I don't see why this thread turned into comparisons between cars and sensor sizes. The original question was if Sony would stop making MF-sensors, due to Sony saying that:

"Sony decided to terminate the development and manufacturing of high-functionality camera modules for external sale"

Not clear to me what camera modules are…

Kevin talked to folks who now and says MFD sensors are important for Sony. The reason Sony is discussed is that they make all CMOS MFD sensors except Leica S.

Best regards
Erik
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NickT

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Re: Sony stop to make the medium format sensors?
« Reply #33 on: June 03, 2016, 11:57:38 pm »


I don't see why this thread turned into comparisons between cars and sensor sizes.

The you haven't been coming here long...  ;D
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eronald

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Re: Sony stop to make the medium format sensors?
« Reply #34 on: June 04, 2016, 06:35:29 am »

It's really kinda presumptuous to assume that your "MF friends" haven't shot with other formats, camera systems, or dare we say forays into less expensive photographic ventures, including the Canon Rebel, micro 4/3, film cameras, et al.
 :) ken


Actually, I had never used a Rebel until I acquired one used almost by accident. I'm not sure that anyone of the older crowd has ever used one, as someone coming to digital from a Nikon F or a Hassy would not normally get near this piece of plastic.
Edmund
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Rob C

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Re: Sony stop to make the medium format sensors?
« Reply #35 on: June 04, 2016, 12:28:22 pm »

I don't know about Ford handles, but Ford Fiestas must be the most challenging cars to reverse into tight spaces: looking back shows you nothing worth seeing. Even parking alongside a kerb on the driver's side is a neat trick to do well: the door's so thick (or the seat so far inwards), that one can hardly see anything important when the head gets poked out of the window in hope of seeing that elusive kerb. Mirrors? Their sense of scale makes the cheapest wide-angle lenses look fantastically efficient.

Every car that I have owned since my 1974 Humber Sceptre has become a step backwards in design. The current cars apparently have no fronts, no rears and are parked by sound: the sound of crunch or abuse. That parking bleepers come standard or can be order as extras is simply proof of the rotten design that goes into modern cars.

A Humber Hawk and Snipe were perfectly parkable, were large enough, yet could be driven through gates with an inch to spare on either side. Aiming through those same gates would challenge my little Fiesta. A Humber never demanded you have wrestler shoulders. I've had an XR2, and XR3i in Spain without power-assisted steering and both were bloody hard to park under any circumstances - so heavy. The Fiesta has got it, as had the Escort before it, but it blinds you instead. Progress.

No wonder there are 'design/value' similarities pointed out with cars and cameras!

Rob

eronald

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Re: Sony stop to make the medium format sensors?
« Reply #36 on: June 04, 2016, 01:37:22 pm »

I think we all need to go back to the Soviet system, where you shot whatever was issued to you, Kiev 88 or Kalashnikov. :)

Edmund


I don't know about Ford handles, but Ford Fiestas must be the most challenging cars to reverse into tight spaces: looking back shows you nothing worth seeing. Even parking alongside a kerb on the driver's side is a neat trick to do well: the door's so thick (or the seat so far inwards), that one can hardly see anything important when the head gets poked out of the window in hope of seeing that elusive kerb. Mirrors? Their sense of scale makes the cheapest wide-angle lenses look fantastically efficient.

Every car that I have owned since my 1974 Humber Sceptre has become a step backwards in design. The current cars apparently have no fronts, no rears and are parked by sound: the sound of crunch or abuse. That parking bleepers come standard or can be order as extras is simply proof of the rotten design that goes into modern cars.

A Humber Hawk and Snipe were perfectly parkable, were large enough, yet could be driven through gates with an inch to spare on either side. Aiming through those same gates would challenge my little Fiesta. A Humber never demanded you have wrestler shoulders. I've had an XR2, and XR3i in Spain without power-assisted steering and both were bloody hard to park under any circumstances - so heavy. The Fiesta has got it, as had the Escort before it, but it blinds you instead. Progress.

No wonder there are 'design/value' similarities pointed out with cars and cameras!

Rob
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dchew

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Re: Sony stop to make the medium format sensors?
« Reply #37 on: June 04, 2016, 05:16:09 pm »


PS Doug: Is the 100MP shipping again?

Yup. Just got mine earlier this week.

Dave
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eronald

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Re: Sony stop to make the medium format sensors?
« Reply #38 on: June 04, 2016, 05:29:21 pm »

Yup. Just got mine earlier this week.

Dave

Congrats! Enjoy!

Edmund
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Christopher

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Re: Sony stop to make the medium format sensors?
« Reply #39 on: June 04, 2016, 05:30:46 pm »

And it's so surprising the rebel feels the same as my rebel 8 years ago did. Way to go Canon! The important stuff is still missing.


Christopher Hauser
ch@chauser.eu
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