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Author Topic: Filmstrip View in Develop Module?  (Read 24045 times)

dwswager

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Filmstrip View in Develop Module?
« on: May 23, 2016, 11:05:14 am »

Desperately trying to learn Lightroom and failing miserably.

Is there a way to have a filmstrip view while in the develop module?  Going back and forth between the Library and Develop modules is killing me. 



Having worked for years in Bridge, I can select the image from the filmstrip, see a big preview and decide if it is something I want to develop, open the image in ACR where I "develop" it.  Clicking done in ACR brings you back to the same spot in Bridge.  I would like to be able to do this in LR so I am not forever going back and forth from the develop and Library modules.  A shortcut key to hide the filmstrip while "developing" would be the great too.

Thanks!
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rdonson

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Re: Filmstrip View in Develop Module?
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2016, 11:22:21 am »

Filmstrip is available at the bottom of the screen in the Develop Module.  If it's missing then look for an arrow at the bottom of the screen in the center and click it.  That should bring up the filmstrip.
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john beardsworth

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Re: Filmstrip View in Develop Module?
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2016, 12:12:02 pm »

A shortcut key to hide the filmstrip while "developing" would be the great too.

F6.

See Help > Develop Module Shortcuts. There are similar panels in the other modules.
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dwswager

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Re: Filmstrip View in Develop Module?
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2016, 09:52:08 pm »

Thanks.

But can someone tell me how to select 20 files and apply or remove an attribute to all 20?  When I select them in the film strip and hit say the flag attribute, it only applies it to the first file and I have to hit the flag 20 times.
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mdijb

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Re: Filmstrip View in Develop Module?
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2016, 10:10:33 pm »

Try switching to the grid view.  Then the change should apply to all the selected images

MDIJB
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john beardsworth

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Re: Filmstrip View in Develop Module?
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2016, 05:08:35 am »

Thanks.

But can someone tell me how to select 20 files and apply or remove an attribute to all 20?  When I select them in the film strip and hit say the flag attribute, it only applies it to the first file and I have to hit the flag 20 times.

The default logic is that when you have one image in the central area (known as "loupe view" in Library) any metadata changes or adjustments only apply to that one image. Otherwise, people easily forget they have 20 images selected. So you generally switch to Grid view (G) to apply metadata to multiple images.

There is also an option to change the behaviour to "AutoSync mode" so that changes do apply to all the selected images. In Library you switch it on by the menu Metadata > Enable Auto Sync, though I wouldn't recommend it because of the above risk. In Develop it's enabled by a button in the right hand panel and I'd recommend it to some people, but not to others. It's the fastest way to process large numbers of images, but you do need to concentrate and be aware at all times of how many images you have selected. Some people can work that way, some can't.


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dwswager

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Re: Filmstrip View in Develop Module?
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2016, 08:12:48 am »

The default logic is that when you have one image in the central area (known as "loupe view" in Library) any metadata changes or adjustments only apply to that one image. Otherwise, people easily forget they have 20 images selected. So you generally switch to Grid view (G) to apply metadata to multiple images.

There is also an option to change the behaviour to "AutoSync mode" so that changes do apply to all the selected images. In Library you switch it on by the menu Metadata > Enable Auto Sync, though I wouldn't recommend it because of the above risk. In Develop it's enabled by a button in the right hand panel and I'd recommend it to some people, but not to others. It's the fastest way to process large numbers of images, but you do need to concentrate and be aware at all times of how many images you have selected. Some people can work that way, some can't.

Having done Human Interface Design and Human Reliability Analysis, there is often not a single solution which is correct.  However, I am at a loss to think of a situation in which you would select several images and then "do something" and only wish to do that something on the first selected image.  And that is the normal convention...select what is to be acted upon and then take the action. 
These are the quirks of Lightroom that make it so much less productive and so frustrating to learn. 

Question:  Is the Auto-Sync retroactive?  That is if I have two images rated 3 stars and 4 stars respectively and I select both and then apply a "Red" color label, does it try to retroactively sync the star ratings and all the metadata or only the ones that I apply while they are selected? If it is the latter, then that is how it should operate out of the box.   I'm all for protecting people from their own incompetence, but when you select a group of files, you should be intending to operate on a group of files!

BTW, I'm very appreciative of all the help.  I didn't realize how awesome Bridge was until I've tried to replace it.  LR is like Bridge on Quaaludes!  Unfortunately, Bridge does not scale appropriately on a 4K screens so it is somewhat less effective than it could be.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2016, 08:16:04 am by dwswager »
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john beardsworth

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Re: Filmstrip View in Develop Module?
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2016, 08:37:38 am »

You'll soon grow used to the selection logic, and you can change it if you want. But don't underestimate users' incompetence - some users can certainly work in AutoSync all the time, for others it's counterproductive.

AutoSync doesn't work the way you want. It doesn't group images or lock their metadata together.

Bridge? Not used it for years (semi-joking)
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dwswager

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Re: Filmstrip View in Develop Module?
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2016, 09:37:48 am »

You'll soon grow used to the selection logic, and you can change it if you want. But don't underestimate users' incompetence - some users can certainly work in AutoSync all the time, for others it's counterproductive.

AutoSync doesn't work the way you want. It doesn't group images or lock their metadata together.

Bridge? Not used it for years (semi-joking)

I would never grow used to the selection logic because I almost never use GRID view.  It is almost a pointless view of the data.  Neither big enough for evaluative purposes, nor dense enough for selections.  I generally always work in a filmstrip view so I can select and evaluate simultaneously.   Or, I'm in a metadata view where I'm working with metadata and not the image.  And most of my selections are CTRL/CMD - A  (select all) following filtering on some sort of data/attributes.

From Adobe Website on Metadata:

"5.(Optional) Choose Metadata > Enable Auto Sync or click the Enable Auto Sync switch on the Sync button to automatically apply metadata changes to all selected photos as you edit."

This should be the standard behavior.  I'm actually at a loss to come up with a scenario in which a user would select a group of files and then take an action and not intend for the action to apply to the entire group.  They may make a mistake and wish they hadn't, but it was their intent when they took the action.  I'm fine with providing an option to put the program in dumbed down kiddie training wheel mode, but don't hobble the program out of the box!

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john beardsworth

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Re: Filmstrip View in Develop Module?
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2016, 09:51:46 am »

In grid view (G) use the + key or the slider in the toolbar (T), and it can be as big or small as people need. Hit E to get to a single image.

The selection logic is important to understand. Yes, the logic could be different, and in Develop I only work in AutoSync mode. But once people do get the concept, it works fine, and they probably don't bother selecting stuff in the filmstrip as much you want to do.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2016, 10:22:47 am by john beardsworth »
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dwswager

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Re: Filmstrip View in Develop Module?
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2016, 10:23:18 am »

In grid view (G) use the + key or the slider in the toolbar (T), and it can be as big or small as people need. Hit E to get to a single image.

The selection logic is important to understand. Yes, the logic could be different, and in Develop I only work in AutoSync mode. But once people do, it works fine, and they probably don't bother selecting stuff in the filmstrip as much you want to do.

Thanks!  I'll continue to plug along to try and make lightroom work.  I'm just struggling to see the benefit of LR.  I want to like it, but other than collections, I just don't see the benefit over Br/ACR.  And the computer code itself runs slower and the interface quirks trip me up.  But with 4K screens on my desktop and laptop and Br not able to do interface scaling, I really need to find an alternative.

Bridge has grids and the thumbnails can be expanded or shrunk.  But my point is that if I shrink them I can't evaluate and if I expand them to a size useful to say choose this one versus that, it is no longer useful for selection because only a few or so are on screen.  The filmstrip view gives you both.  And since it can be hidden or shown with F6, it makes it pretty handy.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Filmstrip View in Develop Module?
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2016, 10:36:52 am »

You seem to be wanting to do library jobs (labeling, rating) in the develop module. That's like wanting to do cooking in the bedroom (the opposite, though, doesn't sound that impossible ;) )

john beardsworth

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Re: Filmstrip View in Develop Module?
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2016, 10:47:51 am »

I'm just struggling to see the benefit of LR. 

OK, for example, let's imagine I want to find all photos of a scene I've visited a few times, and they're scattered across 3-4 drives. I'm not sure if Bridge even lets me search by keyword across multiple drives, but it's not very quick for it to interrogate thousands of files. A few seconds in Lightroom. Then I want to find another group of pictures, it's back to square one in Bridge, another trivial task in Lightroom. Push your picture archive up to 6 figures, Lightroom's still happy. So that's tasks like finding, sorting, categorising that Lr does so much better. Save time organising, use it on creative tasks.

Then consider physical safe-keeping. Let's complicate things by keeping some of the photos on a drive that's switched off or otherwise unavailable. Not a chance of finding them in Bridge as it doesn't know the drive ever existed but the photos are all recorded in Lightroom's catalogue. So imagine the drive had crashed, or some folders are missing because someone accidentally deleted them. Lightroom tells you something should be there and helps you verify the restoration task. In other words, it has a role in safeguarding your work.

And so one can go on. Virtual copies mean you can do alternative versions of even duplicate entire shoots (eg b&w versions of a wedding shot) with no disc space. Look at Develop and its History panel which records what you did to an image and allows you to undo work even in later sessions. Map allows you to visualise where you took shots, maybe plan return visits. Print doesn't exist in Bridge, nor does the mobile workflow.

So what you're doing is comparing a glorified version of Explorer/Finder that's designed for anyone, with a tool that's designed to be an integrated self-sufficient environment for managing and processing large numbers of photographs.
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dwswager

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Re: Filmstrip View in Develop Module?
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2016, 12:11:44 pm »

You seem to be wanting to do library jobs (labeling, rating) in the develop module. That's like wanting to do cooking in the bedroom (the opposite, though, doesn't sound that impossible ;) )

You have it backwards.  LR makes you go into 2 different modes to do similar things.  That is, it has partitioned the kitchen so to stir the pot while cutting vegetables, you have to go into a different room.

You look old enough from your photo to remember software MODES!   They were the bane of our existence and LR brought them back for a redo!  My frustration is that LR is trying to enforce a predetermined workflow while I'm used to having tools and the ability to establish the workflow that is best for me in each situation.
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dwswager

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Re: Filmstrip View in Develop Module?
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2016, 12:43:46 pm »

So what you're doing is comparing a glorified version of Explorer/Finder that's designed for anyone, with a tool that's designed to be an integrated self-sufficient environment for managing and processing large numbers of photographs.

I'm comparing Br/Ps/ACR to Lr.  I'm trying to replace Br/ACR with Lr.  If we grant that Lr has better file handling and data virtualization functionality and that Ps has a pixel based back end that Lr doesn't, we are left with the stuff in the middle.  ACR duplicates the functionality of the develop module.  I want the ease of virtual copies, collections and the ability to take with me the previews to edit while away from the real files.  Other than that, I got the file handling and data virtualization part handled on my server.

Anyone that denigrates Br, does not understand the power, efficiency and flexibility of it.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Filmstrip View in Develop Module?
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2016, 12:52:41 pm »

... LR makes you go into 2 different modes to do similar things.  That is, it has partitioned the kitchen so to stir the pot while cutting vegetables, you have to go into a different room..

LR is basing its software on science:

Multitasking lowers your work quality and efficiency

Among safety warnings:

Multitasking men have it the worst

The damage could be permanent


 ;)

In other words, pick a task and concentrate on it.

dwswager

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Re: Filmstrip View in Develop Module?
« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2016, 01:58:59 pm »

LR is basing its software on science:

Multitasking lowers your work quality and efficiency

Among safety warnings:

Multitasking men have it the worst

The damage could be permanent


 ;)

In other words, pick a task and concentrate on it.

I agree, in principle.  It is much better to design a workflow that concentrates on one task at a time...to completion if possible.  However, when I'm editing an image, it would be nice to simply be able to make metadata or attribute adjustments on the fly.

I'm just frustrated trying to use Lr.  I did a job this weekend.  Got home with over 1800 frames shot and started working them in Lr.  Got about 1/4 of the way through them and looked at my wife and said "this is taking forever!"  Even the previews seem to draw slower in Lr.  Using the error keys to step through the images, there is a notable pause before anything displays, let alone the high resolution preview.  And these were 20MP 12bit RAW from a D500 and not the 36MP 14bit from the D810.  In Br, it previews low res immediately while it build the high resolution preview.  Usually enough for a first cut decision between frames, depending on the subject.
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digitaldog

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Re: Filmstrip View in Develop Module?
« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2016, 02:02:23 pm »

In terms of auto sync on multiple images, it's important to know that Grid/Library using Quick Develop and Develop have different approaches to this; Relative vs Absolute settings! QD is Relative. Develop is Absolute. AFAIK, Bridge is Absolute with no options otherwise. Say you have 5 bracketed images and use the Exposure button in QD. ALL five images will be adjusted relative to that one click rather than synchronizing all the photo’s with the same exposure value. Useful for batch processing the same relative correction to many images. Say 1 image has a setting or 5, the other 6 (the edit isn't important, the value is). Now you add 1 relative to those images. The image that was 5 jumps to 6. The image that was 6 jumps to 7 and so on. Maybe what you want, maybe not.

LR has some significant advantages over Bridge/ACR for editing: Virtual Copies, Proof Copies, unlimited History states.
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dwswager

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Re: Filmstrip View in Develop Module?
« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2016, 07:49:50 pm »

In terms of auto sync on multiple images, it's important to know that Grid/Library using Quick Develop and Develop have different approaches to this; Relative vs Absolute settings! QD is Relative. Develop is Absolute. AFAIK, Bridge is Absolute with no options otherwise. Say you have 5 bracketed images and use the Exposure button in QD. ALL five images will be adjusted relative to that one click rather than synchronizing all the photo’s with the same exposure value. Useful for batch processing the same relative correction to many images. Say 1 image has a setting or 5, the other 6 (the edit isn't important, the value is). Now you add 1 relative to those images. The image that was 5 jumps to 6. The image that was 6 jumps to 7 and so on. Maybe what you want, maybe not.

LR has some significant advantages over Bridge/ACR for editing: Virtual Copies, Proof Copies, unlimited History states.

That is cool! 
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dwswager

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Re: Filmstrip View in Develop Module?
« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2016, 08:54:28 am »

Ok, so I've climbed down off the ledge a little thanks to some help here and some more time poking around the interface and Googling for answers.

The default logic is that when you have one image in the central area (known as "loupe view" in Library) any metadata changes or adjustments only apply to that one image. Otherwise, people easily forget they have 20 images selected. So you generally switch to Grid view (G) to apply metadata to multiple images.

The reason people easily forget they have 20 images selected is because LR violates standard conventions for clearing selections!

In every graphical interface that I have ever used (I do Human Reliability Analysis for military weapon systems), when a selection is active and the mouse is clicked anywhere in the frame (not the window) hosting the items, the selection is cleared.  If the click occurs on an actual item, it becomes the new selection.  If it occurs in null space, then focus of the window may change to a specific item, but no items will be selected.

In LR, when a selection is active and the mouse is clicked on an item within the selection,  the selection is maintained and only the focus of the interface is switched to the item which was clicked.   I believe Adobe calls this the "active" image.  It requires a click outside the selection to clear the previous selection.   I know Br does not work this way, nor any other application or OS I've ever worked with. 

I'm not debating the merits of one method versus the other, only pointing out that LR is the oddball and violates the user's innate and learned expectations.  This is similar to building a car and switching the positions and shapes of the gas and brake pedals. 
« Last Edit: May 26, 2016, 09:00:53 am by dwswager »
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