Lightfastness Comparison of Epson UltraChrome HD versus K3 inks

[MHMG]

I just published some comparative results on the lightfastness of the new Epson UltraChrome HD ink set versus the older Epson K3 ink set on two different media.  The testing is ongoing, but the results to date pretty much tell the story.

http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com/epson-uchd-versus-k3-inks/

cheers,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com

[samueljohnchia]

Thank you Mark, I read the article with great interest. I've been following the tests since it began. I was hoping you could say a few words about the LUCIA EX performance against the HD inks, in addition. LUCIA doesn't seem to be doing as well, looking at the I* color. It is keeping up on I* tone. The LUCIA light skin color has shifted quite a bit more. I wonder which ink is the weakest link. Yellow?

[MHMG]

Thank you Mark, I read the article with great interest. I've been following the tests since it began. I was hoping you could say a few words about the LUCIA EX performance against the HD inks, in addition. LUCIA doesn't seem to be doing as well, looking at the I* color. It is keeping up on I* tone. The LUCIA light skin color has shifted quite a bit more. I wonder which ink is the weakest link. Yellow?

I didn't want to dilute the discussion in the HD versus K3 article by including any trend line analysis of the LUCIA EX set, but LUCIA EX has indeed been in test alongside the HD and K3 inks on those two batches of paper. There's also specific older but still ongoing tests for K3 and LUCIA inks on HN photo rag Pearl in the Aardenburg database that I want to go back and study carefully. I took a very quick look at this older data recently, and the older K3 looks like it has tracked very closely but the older LUCIA EX sample looks like it was performing significantly better the first time around. I want to try to sort out that variability issue if possible.  These older tests have been running on the same light fade test unit but in a different batch M1.  The environmental data loggers for the M1 and N1 batches are agreeing very closely as they should, and the fact that the K3 samples are also matching well means environmental issues like heat, humidity, and light level variances can be largely ruled out as the source of error.  That leaves true sample repeatability as the likely culprit for the LUCIA EX variability, and it means more testing should follow.  I will tackle additional LUCIA EX testing when I start the new Canon LUCIA PRO inks in test. Canon has not been very forthcoming to date about longevity of the new LUCIA PRO inks. I'm keen to see how they perform, but I don't have a time frame for this new round of testing.  Raising the necessary funds has been going very very slowly.

best,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com

[shadowblade]

So, pretty good, but not quite Z3200-good so far.

[MHMG]

So, pretty good, but not quite Z3200-good so far.

I understand what you are saying, but IMHO, with any ink set now as good or better than Epson's new HD set, the battleground for excellent lightfastness properties now shifts much more to the media and its interaction with the inks, not just the inks by themselves.  Check out ID# 152 in the Aardenburg database, for example, that shows how even a great ink set like HP Vivera pigmented inks printed in what would normally be a very lightfast grayscale mode can be brought down to a very sad state by pairing these inks with the wrong paper.   The Aardenburg Conservation Display rating for that sample of Z3200/OEM ink paired with a choice of HP Pro Satin media was only 8-15 Megalux hours (equivalent to only 4-7.5 Wilhelm years on display). Yikes!

Some of Epson's own branded media such as the ever popular Epson Premium luster RC media will also likely be a letdown for the quality of these new HD inks. Printmakers will have to choose media more wisely in order to achieve the full benefits of the newer high stability ink sets.  Yet the only way to truly sort the good from the mediocre media and the mediocre from the poor media is to perform a specific test for any given printer/ink/media combination.

cheers,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com

[rdonson]

Well said, Mark!

[shadowblade]

I understand what you are saying, but IMHO, with any ink set now as good or better than Epson's new HD set, the battleground for excellent lightfastness properties now shifts much more to the media and its interaction with the inks, not just the inks by themselves.  Check out ID# 152 in the Aardenburg database, for example, that shows how even a great ink set like HP Vivera pigmented inks printed in what would normally be a very lightfast grayscale mode can be brought down to a very sad state by pairing these inks with the wrong paper.   The Aardenburg Conservation Display rating for that sample of Z3200/OEM ink paired with a choice of HP Pro Satin media was only 8-15 Megalux hours (equivalent to only 4-7.5 Wilhelm years on display). Yikes!

Some of Epson's own branded media such as the ever popular Epson Premium luster RC media will also likely be a letdown for the quality of these new HD inks. Printmakers will have to choose media more wisely in order to achieve the full benefits of the newer high stability ink sets.  Yet the only way to truly sort the good from the mediocre media and the mediocre from the poor media is to perform a specific test for any given printer/ink/media combination.

cheers,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com

I'm referring to the tests with Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Pearl - an estimated 155-185 MLux hours with Epson HD, as opposed to >200MLux hours with Vivera.

It seems that, although some papers will perform better than others, with any given paper, the relative rankings stay more or less the same. That is, with currently-known inksets, Vivera > Lucia EX > Ultrachrome HDR > Ultrachrome K3. So, if Epson HD falls in between Vivera and Lucia EX (or between Lucia EX and Ultrachrome HDR), wouldn't you expect that to hold true for most papers? That is, one paper might give you 200 MLux hours with Vivera and 160MLux hours with HD, and another might give you 25 MLux hours with Vivera and 22 MLux hours with HD, but the relative performance of the inks remains fairly consistent between papers.

Would you expect the HDX inkset (used on P7000/P9000) to be more or less lightfast than the HD set (used by the P600, and more-or-less used (with an extra grey) by the P10000/P20000)?

[Paul Roark]

First, thanks to Mark for another set of great tests and for increasing the information/knowledge base that is available in our field.

With respect to my narrow interests of finding the best inputs for my dedicated black and white inksets, where the light blue color "toner" needed to offset the carbon warmth is the weak spot, it looks like Canon Lucia will remain my color pigment input.  The Epson yellow pigment quality increase is spectacular and very important to the color field, which is where the vast majority of action is.  However, the AaI&A test patch that is the most predictive of the stability of my light blue toner blends is the B2 "purplish blue" AaI&A test patch.  Here, simplifying things a bit, the total delta-E of the UC-HD patch is twice that of the Canon test patch on the matte paper and 1.4 times the Canon delta-E on the pearl paper. 

(I look at more than just this one number, but the details are consistent with the overall delta-E noted above.  For some of my notes on what I look at in the AaI&A tests see http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/UC-HD-v-Lucia-60Hr.jpg.  I also do my own fade testing, but Mark's are more sophisticated.  The physical stability in terms of suspension of the pigments in the inks is also a factor I look carefully at and attempt to do accelerated testing of via centrifuge.  Additionally, availability to individual photographer/printers and compatibility with available dilution bases are major factors in what I use and publish the formulas for.  The inkjet version of the B&W darkroom is alive and well for those individual photographers who are so inclined.)

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

[MHMG]

It has been a great pleasure to participate in the LULA forums over the last several years.  I have contributed to the best of my abilities, but I have also learned a lot, so I've never felt a burden in sharing what I can knowledgeably contribute to others in the LULA forums in any way.  That said, this post is my last one on LULA.  I say that with some regret, but life goes on.  People move in different directions.  I'm moving on as well.

I continue to remain active in photography, printmaking, and print permanence research.  If you are interested in keeping abreast of my current activities, you can find me through my website and social media.

All the best,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com

[Czornyj]

Nooooo! What on earth had happened? That can't be true - please, reconsider your decision

[Ernst Dinkla]

It has been a great pleasure to participate in the LULA forums over the last several years.  I have contributed to the best of my abilities, but I have also learned a lot, so I've never felt a burden in sharing what I can knowledgeably contribute to others in the LULA forums in any way.  That said, this post is my last one on LULA.  I say that with some regret, but life goes on.  People move in different directions.  I'm moving on as well.

I continue to remain active in photography, printmaking, and print permanence research.  If you are interested in keeping abreast of my current activities, you can find me through my website and social media.

All the best,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com

Mark,

Any chance we can get forums on Aardenburg-Imaging and one forum more papers/inks/longevity specific?

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
January 2016 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots

[Czornyj]

Mark,

Any chance we can get forums on Aardenburg-Imaging and one forum more papers/inks/longevity specific?

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
January 2016 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots

+1
Or a FB group if there's too much hassle to create forum, whatever

[MHMG]

Mark,

Any chance we can get forums on Aardenburg-Imaging and one forum more papers/inks/longevity specific?

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
January 2016 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots

Ernst and Marcin, thank you both for your suggestions.  I'm not promising anything yet, but I am taking a serious look at hosting a dedicated forum on the Aardenburg website as well as the FB group option.

cheers,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com

[GrahamBy]

Please do

[Paul Roark]

Please do

+1

Whatever is the easiest way to preserve existing information, lower the cost & effort to continue to contribute, and best enhance your life works for me and, I'm sure a lot of others.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

[Rand47]

+1

Whatever is the easiest way to preserve existing information, lower the cost & effort to continue to contribute, and best enhance your life works for me and, I'm sure a lot of others.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

+2  Please...

Rand

[MHMG]

+1

Whatever is the easiest way to preserve existing information, lower the cost & effort to continue to contribute, and best enhance your life works for me and, I'm sure a lot of others.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

To be clear, Aardenburg and the information available on the Aardenburg Website is not going away.  I hope to do many more projects along the lines of the one I posted in this thread. In fact, I'm also trying to expand the Aardenburg social media presence (Facebook, Twitter, etc) in order to try to reach a bigger audience.  The personal challenge for me is that an expanded social media presence takes time I have to regain from other parts of my daily life.  Over the last year or so, I have been slowly reducing my time spent in numerous photography and printmaking discussion groups in which I routinely participated so that I can accommodate this new change in direction. The LULA Printing:Printers/ Papers and Inks forum discussion is the one discussion group I have held onto as long as possible. It's the best of the best. I count many of you here as personal friends even though we have never met.

All the best,

Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com

[Alan Goldhammer]

There are some of us who, for personal reasons, do not do Facebook or Twitter!!

Alan

[howardm]

+1 

I avoid FB/Twit/etc-etc at all costs.

[MHMG]

There are some of us who, for personal reasons, do not do Facebook or Twitter!!

Alan

Hi Alan, I was among the FB holdouts for a long long time as well, so I totally understand.  No more need be said because yesterday my good friend (and web guy and all around genius) Jordan Lewis helped me to figure out how to add a forum to the Aardenburg website without spending too much time or money neither of which I have very much of these days

I'm acutely aware that "Confidence is what you have before you know the full extent of the situation", but an Aardenburg forum is the plan I am now pursuing.  I envision with additional support from my colleagues in the museums and archives community and with participation by many of you here, Aardenburg Imaging & Archives can eventually achieve a world class discussion group exchanging great information freely about modern and traditional print quality and print permanence.

best,
Mark
http://www.ardenburg-imaging.com