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Author Topic: Adobe Discards Valuable Metadata When Processing RAW Files  (Read 7380 times)

Mark D Segal

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Re: Adobe Discards Valuable Metadata When Processing RAW Files
« Reply #20 on: May 23, 2016, 06:37:34 pm »

John, I really don't care how much it would cost Adobe.  They'll either do it or they won't.  Obviously they haven't done it since we started using ACR and then Lr.  I'm also not going to lose sleep over this. 

Before ACR I used BreezeBrowser and it was a nice feature to see the focus points.  Using Canon DPP back then was akin to a sharp stick in the eye.  Seeing the focus points helped us figure out that our DSLRs were back/front focusing among other things.  With new zone focusing systems it would be nice to see what the camera actually focused on without guessing.  This isn't an issue for most landscape photographers because landscapes rarely move when you're photographing them.  If you shoot action or sports though it would be a nice tool to have.  Perhaps at some point AF systems will be so good we'll just assume that anything that's not tack sharp is operator error.

Photoshop's Focus Mask is a very slick tool but not a substitute for seeing what the camera actually focused on.

Not only action and sports - also useful for architectural photography, city-scapes, macro-photography, portraits, people shots in general.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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digitaldog

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Re: Adobe Discards Valuable Metadata When Processing RAW Files
« Reply #21 on: May 23, 2016, 07:03:22 pm »

Not only action and sports - also useful for architectural photography, city-scapes, macro-photography, portraits, people shots in general.
As one who's never used this, how is it useful? You can't refocus right? Maybe someday.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Adobe Discards Valuable Metadata When Processing RAW Files
« Reply #22 on: May 23, 2016, 07:07:09 pm »

As one who's never used this, how is it useful? You can't refocus right? Maybe someday.

Right, but it can help to analyze where you went wrong so you know better how to improve technique for the next time.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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digitaldog

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Re: Adobe Discards Valuable Metadata When Processing RAW Files
« Reply #23 on: May 23, 2016, 07:22:56 pm »

Right, but it can help to analyze where you went wrong so you know better how to improve technique for the next time.
Not to be a skeptic but I can't see how that would be the case. I guess if I were testing the lens on a bench, for adjusting it, yes. Otherwise? Can't wrap my head around how I screwed up on focus today but seeing that, with or without a dot, helps me next time. Of course, I'm coming from a bkgnd shooting when auto focus didn't exist!
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Adobe Discards Valuable Metadata When Processing RAW Files
« Reply #24 on: May 23, 2016, 08:39:47 pm »

Me too, but I can think of a number of ways in which focus point data would help detect how one mis-focused, over a number of photos seeing whether it is systematic or one-off, suggesting either pilot error or equipment error, etc. - you know - evidence for diagnostics; can come in different ways.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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rdonson

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Re: Adobe Discards Valuable Metadata When Processing RAW Files
« Reply #25 on: May 23, 2016, 09:17:14 pm »

Andrew, when we focused manually and used matched needle metering in SLRs all errors were on us except for mechanical failures. 

Today, is a bit different.  Our digital cameras have computers.  Lenses have chips that talk to those computers.  The lenses are driven by motors.  The cameras have firmware.  Canon action oriented DSLRs have more than one CPU.  That's so that one CPU can be dedicated to focusing (AI Servo).  There are a lot of pieces at play even before we get to how the DSLRs perform the task of focusing.  It's a significant food chain that is more often than not very accurate and reliable but not always.

The focus points showed me what the camera chose to focus on when I was shooting sports.  It didn't always focus on what I thought it should.  That information could provide me with enough info to perhaps choose a different AF mode or strategy.  It was better than guessing at how to fix it for the next sporting event.

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digitaldog

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Re: Adobe Discards Valuable Metadata When Processing RAW Files
« Reply #26 on: May 23, 2016, 10:10:11 pm »

I see a focus point on the back of the LCD.
Other than that, seeing in a raw converter isn't anything I'm yet convinced I'm missing anything. But heck, of folks find it useful, great.
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john beardsworth

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Re: Adobe Discards Valuable Metadata When Processing RAW Files
« Reply #27 on: May 24, 2016, 03:52:42 am »

John, I really don't care how much it would cost Adobe.  They'll either do it or they won't.  Obviously they haven't done it since we started using ACR and then Lr.  I'm also not going to lose sleep over this....

Photoshop's Focus Mask is a very slick tool but not a substitute for seeing what the camera actually focused on.

I was actually thinking of Capture One's focus mask rather than Photoshop's focus area selection tool (they renamed it at some point).

"Cost" is important. You're hoping they will do something in this area, so wouldn't you want whatever offers most benefit? Would we really be better off if Adobe committed to ongoing support of non-standard, borderline-proprietary focus point metadata from multiple makers / bodies? Or would we gain more from what's more like a one-time investment in detecting and displaying which parts of the image are actually in focus?
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fdisilvestro

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Re: Adobe Discards Valuable Metadata When Processing RAW Files
« Reply #28 on: May 24, 2016, 05:59:29 am »

There is a free plugin for LR that will show the focus point used in nikon and canon cameras. I'm not sure if it reads the data from the original file or the LR catalog. Lightroom Focus Point Plugin

One note: If you focus and recompose, the focus point shown is the one used, which will not coincide with the image content

There is a lot of information in the lr catalog, that you can check with a sql tool as John said, but there is no way to use it from LR and I'm not sure if you have access to it from the LR SDK. So far the only plugin I know that access some of that info is Any Filter which is very good

AFairley

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Re: Adobe Discards Valuable Metadata When Processing RAW Files
« Reply #29 on: May 24, 2016, 11:56:07 am »

I see a focus point on the back of the LCD.
Other than that, seeing in a raw converter isn't anything I'm yet convinced I'm missing anything. But heck, of folks find it useful, great.

I recently was shooting deep-focus photos at a variety of apertures and focus distances for an assignment (did not have the opportunity to pre-test).  Being able to see focus points in SW would have obviated the need to take field notes on what I was doing, in order to get feedback to develop a more "focused" technique for similar work in the future. 
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