Pages: [1] 2 3 4   Go Down

Author Topic: To Punch or Not To Punch  (Read 6967 times)

RSL

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16046
    • http://www.russ-lewis.com
To Punch or Not To Punch
« on: May 21, 2016, 11:10:49 am »

To punch or not to punch? That is the question.
Logged
Russ Lewis  www.russ-lewis.com.

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24074
Re: To Punch or Not To Punch
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2016, 03:17:07 pm »

To punch or not to punch? That is the question.


I think she already has!

;-)

Rob

stamper

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5882
Re: To Punch or Not To Punch
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2016, 03:41:16 am »

A fine image. The expression on the laddie's face makes the image.

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24074
Re: To Punch or Not To Punch
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2016, 04:19:28 am »

A fine image. The expression on the laddie's face makes the image.


Now I know you are confused.

Rob C

stamper

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5882
Re: To Punch or Not To Punch
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2016, 09:16:58 am »


Now I know you are confused.

Rob C

Only a pedant picks up on spelling mistakes? :(

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24074
Re: To Punch or Not To Punch
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2016, 02:58:47 pm »

Only a pedant picks up on spelling mistakes? :(

Spelling? What spelling? It's a sexual confusion; nothing to do with spelling. How many boys do you know wear frocks?

Rob C

stamper

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5882
Re: To Punch or Not To Punch
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2016, 03:17:35 am »

Spelling? What spelling? It's a sexual confusion; nothing to do with spelling. How many boys do you know wear frocks?

Rob C

Just stick to photographing wigs. Do you wear one yourself? I seem to remember you had a pigtail once? :-[

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24074
Re: To Punch or Not To Punch
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2016, 03:38:19 am »

Just stick to photographing wigs. Do you wear one yourself? I seem to remember you had a pigtail once? :-[


Oh man, one day you'll get something right: a pigtail involves plaited hair; a ponytail (sparse remnants of which still hang on, by the way), does not.

Neither of these styles of hair distribution affects the gender of the child in Russ's photograph; this is not a union meeting, this is LuLa: as facile smokescreen, it doesn't work. If I may refer you to Stan Freberg: "Just the facts, ma'am..."

;-)

Rob C

stamper

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5882
Re: To Punch or Not To Punch
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2016, 03:47:26 am »

A spelling mistake and you are using it to be offensive. Time for another holiday? BTW there are wigs on the market that have pony tails. :o

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24074
Re: To Punch or Not To Punch
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2016, 05:38:36 am »

A spelling mistake and you are using it to be offensive. Time for another holiday? BTW there are wigs on the market that have pony tails. :o


Why do you continue to turn a blind eye to the point? That point is this: you mistook the gender of the 'puncher'; it has nothing to do with spelling. There is no offense; you choose to create the impression of one as disguise or, worse, from an innate inabilty to admit mistakes. Ponytail wigs? Why on Earth would I want one? The glorious, natural one I do have is already as thin as hell, and is only there because I grudge paying some barber €20 to cut less than a dozen hairs; I rather just gather them up and await their disappearance, which would save me the daily bother.

Why don't you try to get this thread closed too? It's a well-established political method of silencing any alternative voice, as I'm sure has not escaped you. But hey, you don't even need do that: I'm bored by this already. You have the floor.

;-)

Rob C

RSL

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16046
    • http://www.russ-lewis.com
Re: To Punch or Not To Punch
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2016, 09:16:41 am »

Knock it off you guys or the watchers won't have to close it. I'll close it.
Logged
Russ Lewis  www.russ-lewis.com.

stamper

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5882
Re: To Punch or Not To Punch
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2016, 10:52:11 am »

Russ I think it would be best if you closed it?

Riaan van Wyk

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 812
Re: To Punch or Not To Punch
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2016, 03:23:22 pm »

Just stick to photographing wigs. Do you wear one yourself? I seem to remember you had a pigtail once? :-[

What a nasty comment that could have been avoided by just admitting you typed too fast and didn't check your words before posting. Shit happens, there are bigger things to get your socks or wigs in knot over than someone pointing out a slip of the finger.

I was going to add some smiley thingy like you often do to your abrasive posts  but have no idea how to do it on the cell phone. You are welcome to call me stupid and whatever else you feel like.

Appologies Russ for not commenting on your photo but on something else, as you know I don't understand street photography so my thoughts would go to waste.



RSL

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16046
    • http://www.russ-lewis.com
Re: To Punch or Not To Punch
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2016, 04:46:05 pm »

Don't sweat it Riaan. I consider both of these guys to be friends, and my biggest problem is seeing them argue about something that doesn't much matter. On top of that, Rob's a very accomplished pro and Robert (Stamper) is a very good street shooter. I learn stuff from both of them.

As far as not understanding street photography, you're not alone. When somebody posts a good street shot here the comments usually dwindle after the first two three (or zero). But post a nice clear tourist shot and the comments go on and on. It's clear most LuLa visitors don't understand street photography, which seems strange when you consider that since the introduction of the Leica the world's most successful photography has been street photography. Ansel had his day, but HCB certainly was the most influential photographer of the twentieth century.

I understand why all that's true. Anybody with a camera or a cellphone can do landscape. Landscape isn't threatening. It won't chase you, yell at you, or give you a dirty look. You can take your time setting up with a tripod instead of having to frame and shoot in a matter of one or two seconds. With landscape you can get out your composition manual and make sure you're following the rule of thirds and the other "mandatory" composition rules. You can stop down and shoot at f/22, making sure everything's "sharp." In street photography you have to frame and shoot intuitively, and in many cases you have to use zone focus, which doesn't necessarily result in a shot that's "sharp." Street photography is hard. Landscape is a piece of cake.

Ah well. . .
Logged
Russ Lewis  www.russ-lewis.com.

Jeremy Roussak

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8961
    • site
Re: To Punch or Not To Punch
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2016, 04:40:47 am »

I understand why all that's true. Anybody with a camera or a cellphone can do landscape. Landscape isn't threatening. It won't chase you, yell at you, or give you a dirty look. You can take your time setting up with a tripod instead of having to frame and shoot in a matter of one or two seconds. With landscape you can get out your composition manual and make sure you're following the rule of thirds and the other "mandatory" composition rules. You can stop down and shoot at f/22, making sure everything's "sharp." In street photography you have to frame and shoot intuitively, and in many cases you have to use zone focus, which doesn't necessarily result in a shot that's "sharp." Street photography is hard. Landscape is a piece of cake.

With respect, Russ, I think that's unfair on those of us (me certainly included) who don't understand street photography. I don't take street not because I'm scared of what the subjects might do to me, but because the results don't interest me. I can appreciate the technique involved but I just don't see why it's done.

Perhaps it's a matter of motivation. I take photographs because I want to produce something beautiful that I can at least imagine hanging on a wall. I've not seen a street shot that would fit the bill.

I'm prepared to admit it's a failing on my part, along with my lack of appreciation of much modern art (there was a feature in the Sunday Times on Koons and Hirst: I can't begin to understand how they made so much money), most modern music (Berio? Stockhausen? Cage? Lutoslawski? Birtwhistle?) and no doubt much else.

Jeremy
Logged

stamper

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5882
Re: To Punch or Not To Punch
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2016, 09:52:52 am »

Each to their own. No photographer can do all of the genres equally well and specializing in one genre as well as dabbling in one or two others is the way to go. Yesterday I shot about 8GBS of landscape but I don't consider myself a landscape photographer. Sunsets and long exposure with ND filters I also like. Street can be very frustrating but it teaches you to think about photography in a way which is certainly different from landscape.

Rob C

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24074
Re: To Punch or Not To Punch
« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2016, 10:20:47 am »

With respect, Russ, I think that's unfair on those of us (me certainly included) who don't understand street photography. I don't take street not because I'm scared of what the subjects might do to me, but because the results don't interest me. I can appreciate the technique involved but I just don't see why it's done.

Perhaps it's a matter of motivation. I take photographs because I want to produce something beautiful that I can at least imagine hanging on a wall. I've not seen a street shot that would fit the bill.

I'm prepared to admit it's a failing on my part, along with my lack of appreciation of much modern art (there was a feature in the Sunday Times on Koons and Hirst: I can't begin to understand how they made so much money), most modern music (Berio? Stockhausen? Cage? Lutoslawski? Birtwhistle?) and no doubt much else.

Jeremy

Hi Jeremy,

I'm not Russ, who does wonderful 'street', but I do sometimes wish I had been blessed with the eye, the speed and the nerve.

As to why: I think it could depend on your age. For older guys who were at least aware of what photography could be during the 50s or earlier, I think it's part of our culture: something with which we grew up, from looking at news magazines, mainly, as they were pretty much all there was as reference. Not photo-magazines (British), in the main, because my memory of them - Photography, edited by Norman Hall, the exception - is one of 'fishermen' sitting in studios puffing on immaculate, shiny pipes (which, in reality and off-set, they probably didn't even smoke), and wearing the absolutely obligatory heavily-ribbed sweater from Shetland or wherever. Tragic stuff; and all lit with the curse of Karsh.

As for today's exponents: my feeling is that, devoid of almost any actual possibility of doing photography as a means of regularly putting bread on the family table, disinterested in the vacuity (which I feel) most landscape represents, they have little else left to explore and from which to attempt to garner their jollies. Trouble is, it's now totally irrelevant. As is almost all of photography.

As to the production of something beautiful: I don't think that applies in 'street' which is esentially about message, mood and photographer speed rather than beauty. I always sought beauty too, but found it in women - where it existed, and I tried to manufacture it where it often did not (the Bilble has that covered too, with sows and silken purses). More than about beauty, it was where photography and self entered into something that was, at once, both an explicit, yet also implicit, very personal relationship, especially with a regular model. I remember remarking to my one muse long, too long ago, that we shared something ever denied her husband. She agreed. I attempted to take it no further; where it lay was beautiful enough, so why destroy that and all the surrounding, possible victims? Beauty? Satisfaction? Fulfilment? Whatever the motivation there is no doubt that photography can be the second most important thing in life after family. For others, the rôles can be reversed.

Rob
« Last Edit: May 24, 2016, 12:55:06 pm by Rob C »
Logged

RSL

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16046
    • http://www.russ-lewis.com
Re: To Punch or Not To Punch
« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2016, 11:25:11 am »

Hi Jeremy, I hope what I'm going to say won't seem cruel, but in any case I need to say it.

I enjoy shooting things that are merely pretty too. I've attached an example. This is the kind of thing that gets hung in bank lobbies. You walk by, glance at it and say to yourself: "Gee, that's pretty," and walk on. By the time you get to the front of the line at the cashier's window you've forgotten all about it. At least the attached example is transient. It was there when I shot it but it's gone now. Half Dome, on the other hand, has been there for millennia. It was there when Ansel shot it and it's been there for millions of others to shoot, and it hasn't changed. You can pick the right time and duplicate Ansel's picture. But why would you bother? You can get a copy of Ansel's shot as a poster and hang it on your wall. St. Ansel did it right. You can't do it any righter.

And I shoot tourist pictures too. I've spent a lot of time in some pretty exotic places and I have tons of tourist pictures. That's why my Lightroom catalog runs north of 24,000 pictures. Sometimes I like to go back and look at some of those shots -- especially the ones from the backwaters of Asia -- so that I can put myself back into those times and places -- and remember. I think it's something you do as you get older and can't have those experiences any longer.

But I notice that when someone posts a tourist picture on LuLa the responses, generally, come from others who've been there and want to tell about their contact with the same scene. For the most part, the people commenting on your bergy bits and growlers are people who've seen bergy bits and growlers. Generally, people who haven't been there couldn't care less. It used to be the same way with after-dinner tourist picture slide shows from the Argus C3.

When you say you "don't understand street photography," what you really mean is that you're not particularly interested in the interactions of people and their environment, not that you don't understand those interactions.

But there's a difference between a picture that records what Half Dome looks like today, and a picture that gives you a transcendental experience -- the kind of picture to which I'll assign the otherwise meaningless word, "art." The problem with landscape photography is that all it really can do is record what's in front of the camera. It takes the hand and mind of a Constable or a Biersdadt or a Renoir to transform a landscape into the kind of thing that can give you a transcendental experience.

But a street shot properly caught can contain a transcendental experience. Understand, I'm not saying that every street photograph does that. Most of them are closer to reportage than to art, but once in a while there's one that, as the saying goes, can blow you away.

But even if the street shot is closer to reportage than to art, it still can satisfy what I talked about at the end of my essay on street photography, which you can find on LuLa:

"An historical novelist guesses at the past on the best evidence he can find, but a photograph isn't a guess; it's an artifact that has captured time. And so, a street photograph that has captured not only the visages of its subjects, but the story that surrounds their actions can be a more convincing reminder of how things were than any novel or any straight, posed documentary photograph.

"Although good street photography is a powerful art form, it's also a way of recording what people really are like, and, for those after us, a way of learning what we were like."

Landscape never can do that kind of thing because it doesn't change and it's divorced from people.

Logged
Russ Lewis  www.russ-lewis.com.

Jeremy Roussak

  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8961
    • site
Re: To Punch or Not To Punch
« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2016, 02:38:19 pm »

Robert (stamper), you're right. I didn't say I don't admire some street photography, and some of the stuff you, Russ and others have posted here has certainly piqued my interest. Much of it, though, I don't understand: that's to say, I don't know why the photographer did, or I should, find the shot interesting. As I say, I must  concede that it's my failure as people I respect seem to agree on those images which are "good street". I just don't do it myself.

Rob, I think different considerations apply when you are earning your living from photography. You have more than yourself to please. Professional portrait photography is another area of the craft I don't really understand: are Leibovitz's photographs interesting because they're by Leibovitz, or because they're of famous (and impliedly at least interesting) people? I mention her name only because it sprang to mind, of course, not to single her out.

Russ, it's not cruel. I understand your dismissal, but I don't share it. My motivation in shooting scenes others have shot before is that the result is mine. Of course it's not Ansel's; probably (certainly?) it's not as good as his; but I did it, and what hangs on my wall is the result of my efforts.

I don't get the transcendental experience you mention from street photography. I do get a sense of wonder from some really good landscape, and I do remember the images. You're excluding the effects of light and shadow, of weather, of cloud. Those are the things that make good landscape. Of course Half Dome is unchanging, over our lifetimes at any rate; but the conditions around it, or other constant land formations, are hugely variable. See this, for example.

Anyway, this is essentially a meaningless discussion. You like your art; I like mine. Neither is better than the other. De gustibus non est disputandum. When I covered certain topics at law school, I used to describe pointless theorising as mental masturbation.

Jeremy
« Last Edit: May 24, 2016, 02:45:48 pm by kikashi »
Logged

RSL

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16046
    • http://www.russ-lewis.com
Re: To Punch or Not To Punch
« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2016, 02:49:47 pm »

When I covered certain topics at law school, I used to describe pointless theorising as mental masturbation.
Jeremy

Precisely.
Logged
Russ Lewis  www.russ-lewis.com.
Pages: [1] 2 3 4   Go Up