Hasselblad H6D promotion policy...

[Doug Peterson]

But they didn't replace the old policy with a new one... It's an alternative. Think if one can't decide if 50c is enough for him or if he really wants an 100c instead...  Then, there are the respective Phase One CCD offerings where (to their usual practice) they have renamed all CCD backs (of which the CCD sensors are no longer in production - hence there will be no more backs made) to factory refurbished/promo/rental and are trying to find their way to the market through POA pricing... By Hasselblad offering this, they have two gains over P1 sales:
1. To attract the customers that are offered a CCD back from P1 instead of the 100MP Cmos one they want and... 2. To offer them a direct access to the 100MP Sony CMos sensor (which they wanted in the first place) at a (much better) price that is  known to the customer without asking for a down-payment and then a position in a waiting list...

*sigh*

Theodoros... so many factual errors it's hard to know where to begin. But let me simply ask this... where you do you get your information about Phase One from?? It seems you honestly and firmly believe the things you say, but it's hard to understand how someone could be so confident of misinformation.

[Theodoros]

*sigh*

Theodoros... so many factual errors it's hard to know where to begin. But let me simply ask this... where you do you get your information about Phase One from?? It seems you honestly and firmly believe the things you say, but it's hard to understand how someone could be so confident of misinformation.

What is the misinforming part Doug? Is it that CCD back sensors aren't made anymore and thus P1 is trying to get rid of their stock of those backs? Are the sensors still made? Are there more CCD backs coming after stock is over?

[Joe Towner]

The H6D-50c has a few advantages over the H5D-50c, namely the screen, the faster shutter speeds with the new lenses, and a bunch of minor details that may or may not apply to you.  CFast + SD (love it), USB3 (eh), and so on.  This allows Hasselblad to get folks off the fence, and if they don't upgrade to the 100c, there's a line of folks behind them.  The 50c chip has been tuned and the yield has to have gone up enough that Sony just keeps putting them out at a good profit.

Personally, the promotion is all about selling new glass, and since you need a new body to take advantage of the shutter speed, here's how to get in on it.  There is going to be a lot of CPO gear the second half of the year, so keep an eye out.

I love my CCD camera, and I hope I'll never have to part with her.  There are times that the CCD is the technically correct answer when using a medium format back (wide angle technical/view camera with lots of movement and old glass).  I love the IQ380, to push the sensor so long after some folks have given it up for retirement.  I kind of wish Phase would do an Acromatic 80, mostly because I want to do some concert photography at ISO1600, and without the bayer filter.

[landscapephoto]

Yes, except here the 50 may effectively be a dead product in 3 months, and the 100 is not exactly ready for prime time.

What is this strange idea that the 50 would be a dead product in 3 months? Canon just issued a 50 mpix camera, do you really expect them to top that in 3 months? Same with Sony: they are selling the A7RII like hot cakes, do you really expect them to double the amount of pixels?

If Hassy were smarter they would lower the price of the 50 to $8K right now, and get some cash and new customers while they regroup. There is going to be blood in the water at Photokina with new releases from Sony and Pentax, and few will be buying over the summer.

Hasselblad is probably both smarter and better informed than you and me. I am pretty confident that they have the complete list of products that will be presented at Photokina 2016, just like everyone else.

[eronald]

I think Theo may be putting a painful hard nugget of truth in someone's shoe

What is the misinforming part Doug? Is it that CCD back sensors aren't made anymore and thus P1 is trying to get rid of their stock of those backs? Are the sensors still made? Are there more CCD backs coming after stock is over?

[Theodoros]

....I am pretty confident that they have the complete list of products that will be presented at Photokina 2016, just like everyone else....

"lots of new products"... (according to Mr. Oosting).... and they seem to create quite and impact with each new announcement or marketing decision they come up with... Surely competition has to react soon, other wise it may be late for them when the "lots of new products" appear... A few months ago Leica's decision to redesign the "S" pricing policy was pleasantly received by the market... but what if the new "ently level" Leica kind DSLR that Mr Oosting (practically) announced in his later interview is ready by Photokina? If nothing else, it will be of 4:3 image ratio... and then P1 lost all the advantages they had only within a year (exclusive  to them sensor, exposure+, 1hr exposures, higher flash sync...) and are left with the disadvantage of their pricing policy and the bitter they created within their older customers by "closing" the access of these customers to the new platform... 

[pflower]

Interesting times.  I have always been a hasselblad fan - since i bought a used 503 in 1992 and then a selection of V lenses to go with it.  Then in 2007 I bought a second hand h3d-39 which has done me pretty well for the last 9 years but is now getting flaky and a bit unreliable (but with the adapter I can use it with my V lenses and the HC 80mm and 50mm which I eventually bought).  So just before the H6D launch I thought about upgrading to an H5D-50c.  However my H3D is apparently worth no more than about £1k in part exchange from the Pro Centre in London but worth over £5k as a trade in for a new H6D-50c (and given that my existing camera is slightly flaky I wouldn't look to sell it on privately).  So I could buy a new H6D for around £15K including VAT or I could take whatever I am offered for my H3D and buy a new H5D-50c for about £12K including VAT.  Or I could wait for second hand H5Ds to come onto the market or I could wait for exchanged H6Ds to come onto the market.  Or I could wait and see if Hasselblad's much rumoured new middle range offering meets my requirements or if Sony introduce something appealing - a lot of my work recently has been with an A7ii which is pretty good but it is not what I really want.  But then again Sony might put out something in September that would appeal.

But then again I do a lot of work on my own and on various streets and locations around the world.  Do I really want to walk around with a £12k+ camera plus lenses?  I am in the fortunate position of being able to afford, justify and rationalise an upgrade.  But given the current state of affairs (by which I include rumours of both a new Sony camera and something else from Hasselblad) what to do?  The only sensible answer to that question is wait and see what happens over the next few months.  But having spent an hour with an H6D-50c the other day there is a big emotional pull to go with it - it really is what I could see myself living with.

Given the rumours in the market place, the possibility of second hand Hasselblads coming onto the market between now and after September, the only sensible solution is to wait and see what happens and then curse oneself for not making the right decision.

But as I say - interesting times and a lot of calculations as to the financial implications of those times.

[eronald]

One more factor to these decisions is the coming ability of the new 35mm cams to do handheld multishot, in effect getting more than 100Mp handheld stabilised Bayer-free resolution. This will certainly upend the art repro market.

Interesting times.  I have always been a hasselblad fan - since i bought a used 503 in 1992 and then a selection of V lenses to go with it.  Then in 2007 I bought a second hand h3d-39 which has done me pretty well for the last 9 years but is now getting flaky and a bit unreliable (but with the adapter I can use it with my V lenses and the HC 80mm and 50mm which I eventually bought).  So just before the H6D launch I thought about upgrading to an H5D-50c.  However my H3D is apparently worth no more than about £1k in part exchange from the Pro Centre in London but worth over £5k as a trade in for a new H6D-50c (and given that my existing camera is slightly flaky I wouldn't look to sell it on privately).  So I could buy a new H6D for around £15K including VAT or I could take whatever I am offered for my H3D and buy a new H5D-50c for about £12K including VAT.  Or I could wait for second hand H5Ds to come onto the market or I could wait for exchanged H6Ds to come onto the market.  Or I could wait and see if Hasselblad's much rumoured new middle range offering meets my requirements or if Sony introduce something appealing - a lot of my work recently has been with an A7ii which is pretty good but it is not what I really want.  But then again Sony might put out something in September that would appeal.

But then again I do a lot of work on my own and on various streets and locations around the world.  Do I really want to walk around with a £12k+ camera plus lenses?  I am in the fortunate position of being able to afford, justify and rationalise an upgrade.  But given the current state of affairs (by which I include rumours of both a new Sony camera and something else from Hasselblad) what to do?  The only sensible answer to that question is wait and see what happens over the next few months.  But having spent an hour with an H6D-50c the other day there is a big emotional pull to go with it - it really is what I could see myself living with.

Given the rumours in the market place, the possibility of second hand Hasselblads coming onto the market between now and after September, the only sensible solution is to wait and see what happens and then curse oneself for not making the right decision.

But as I say - interesting times and a lot of calculations as to the financial implications of those times.

[Paul2660]

One more factor to these decisions is the coming ability of the new 35mm cams to do handheld multishot, in effect getting more than 100Mp handheld stabilised Bayer-free resolution. This will certainly upend the art repro market.

Totally agree, if you have not already, look at the 3200 and 6400 on the Pentax K1 with the multishot.  Pentax has found a way to not only take advantage of the resolution but the additional light, to get ISO 6400 that is similar to ISO 200.  Leaves a lot more range to the photographer for sure.

Paul C

[landscapephoto]

  Then in 2007 I bought a second hand h3d-39 which has done me pretty well for the last 9 years but is now getting flaky and a bit unreliable

It may be worth trying to clean the contacts of your camera: back, lens, battery and viewfinder. I has been known to do wonders to "flaky" hasselblads.

[Theodoros]

One more factor to these decisions is the coming ability of the new 35mm cams to do handheld multishot, in effect getting more than 100Mp handheld stabilised Bayer-free resolution. This will certainly upend the art repro market.

Improvement of (true color) multishot functioning over traditional Bayer pattern captures is certainly phenomenal. However, the art repro market will hardly be affected by cameras like the K1... Surely K1's shift pixel mode will have one or two (or three, or more) things to teach shingle shot MFDBs for product photography or other stills, but given the cost of a S/H Sinarback 54H, its much higher Niquist limit and the dedicated software that needs to be used for (dead) accurate color calibration, art repro market is far for being the field where K1 might excel... Still, it will be a far better solution than any single shot MFDB that many (ignorants) suggest that might be used for the job...   

As for "hand held multishot", one may forget it on the spot... The feature is clearly there on the K1 for landscapers as to retain detail on the real still subjects in the compensation and overcome things like leaves, or dust, or clouds (or the sun in sunsets) moving during the capture... I can see Bernard changing his Nikon for a Pentax K1... 

[BernardLanguillier]

I can see Bernard changing his Nikon for a Pentax K1... 

It is for sure an appealing camera, but no short term plan to move to Pentax here.

I would be interested if the 645X with the 100mp medium format sensor had this capability built-in though!

Cheers,
Bernard

[Theodoros]

It is for sure an appealing camera, but no short term plan to move to Pentax here.

I would be interested if the 645X with the 100mp medium format sensor had this capability built-in though!

Cheers,
Bernard

I doubt such a thing as P645X will ever exist... (due to several reasons including the mounting distance of the P645 body). But anyway, the least I would desire would be for this discussion to turn to (yet another) rumor/wishlist/prediction/cross fingers thread...