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Author Topic: McCurry Scandal?  (Read 43846 times)

Zorki5

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Re: McCurry Scandal?
« Reply #60 on: May 17, 2016, 12:12:14 pm »

I seem to remember about 20 years ago during the OJ Simpson trial that one news media was accused of modifying their tonal/color adjustments to make OJ look "blacker".  There was a rather large stink made about this.

Sometimes, it's used the other way round. Works just as "nice"...

I think it really comes down to intent.  But intent is often hard to prove/disprove.

There's a saying around these parts that (translated) goes something like "The road to hell is paved with best intentions".
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RSL

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Re: McCurry Scandal?
« Reply #61 on: May 17, 2016, 01:24:09 pm »

Whatever it is, it isn't a "scandal."
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: McCurry Scandal?
« Reply #62 on: May 18, 2016, 02:52:18 pm »

Hi,

It may depend on the context. If the images are said to be authentic, there may be a violence of the rules.

On the other hand, if the images are seen as interpretation of the subject the photographer would have much more artistic liberty.

An artistic interpretation may be more true than an objective rendition. There is a lot of subjectivity in photography and rigid rules of editing don't change that.

Best regards
Erik



Whatever it is, it isn't a "scandal."
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Erik Kaffehr
 

RSL

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Re: McCurry Scandal?
« Reply #63 on: May 18, 2016, 03:27:51 pm »

That's been said several times in this thread, Erik. But it doesn't hurt to say it again.
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MattBurt

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Re: McCurry Scandal?
« Reply #64 on: May 19, 2016, 12:40:28 pm »

But scandals sell! Who wants information when you can have SCANDAL!!!!11 :o
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-MattB

torger

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Re: McCurry Scandal?
« Reply #65 on: May 22, 2016, 03:40:44 am »

I think manipulating images, by removing elements and adding in stuff, is comparable to doping in sports. By artificial means you make yourself better than you are, at the cost of your competitors and audience. It's not okay. I just can't have a "who cares?" attitude to that. I love photography, and I don't want it ruined by photoshop manipulation.

It's genre-dependent though. If you make a work of art, it's different from documentary work and it can surely be a composite. As a rule of thumb I think one can say if it's obvious the image has been manipulated it's okay to show it without comment, otherwise it should be presented together with a comment.

These types of discussions usually unfolds into something "but is grading okay then, increasing contrast, changing color balance? If that's okay than surely anything must be okay?". And of course the relation between photoshopping and an arranged scene, is an arranged scene any better or not? There are numerous examples of claimed "wildlife" photographs that was actually shot in a zoo. That's not okay either.

It's impossible to draw a strict border though, as it's about context. What's perfectly okay in one context may not be okay in another.

As McCurry is known for documentary work, I find his photoshopping business very disappointing. I know too little to say if it's a scandal or not. If photoshopped images has been in say national geographic and broken their authenticity rules, then I'd say it's a scandal. If it's just about his prints in galleries without claimed authenticity it's less so.

We had a scandal in Sweden five years ago when a well-regarded award-winning wildlife photographer was caught with gross manipulation of images, adding in animals, sometimes not even using his own raw material. His explanation was that he couldn't handle the pressure to deliver top notch images that the audience was expecting from him so he started editing first a little, then a bit more, and a bit more, until it was totally out of control. The manipulations I've seen from McCurry are far from being that bad but I guess the reason behind it could be the same, he no longer feels he can deliver the same quality which made him famous without cheating.
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petermfiore

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Re: McCurry Scandal?
« Reply #66 on: May 22, 2016, 09:34:43 am »

In the end you have to realize, that if it's about art, anything goes...If it's about news, truth and integrity there are rules. And we "ALL KNOW HOW FAIR AND TRUTHFUL" the news can be. Because ratings and money has nothing to do with journalistic news. Blasphemy!


Peter

Today's world is not yesterday.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2016, 09:44:31 am by petermfiore »
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RSL

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Re: McCurry Scandal?
« Reply #67 on: May 22, 2016, 10:39:08 am »

You nailed it, Peter. Who would ever think that one of our news agencies would slant the news? It's simply unthinkable -- at least by those who don't think. Except in his war coverage McCurry was doing art, so the modifications to his images are up to him. But even in war coverage, what gets "covered" is up to the editors. Would a news editor be biased? Heaven forfend.
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ErikKaffehr

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Let's assume a camera has automatic lamp post removal…
« Reply #68 on: May 22, 2016, 11:27:22 am »

Hi,

Let's assume that a next generation of cameras have a feature called automatic lamp post removal…

So, the camera removes any lamp posts automatically. You can still shoot authentic raw, of course… So what is OK and what is not?

  • Automatic lamp post removal by camera software?
  • Removal of lamp in post by content aware fill in PS?
  • Parametric removal of the lamp post in Lightroom?
  • No lamp post should be removed from any picture?
  • Is it OK to remove the lamp post pre exposure using a proper application of dynamite?

Best regards
Erik
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Erik Kaffehr
 

Zorki5

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Re: Let's assume a camera has automatic lamp post removal…
« Reply #69 on: May 22, 2016, 03:06:27 pm »

Let's assume that a next generation of cameras have a feature called automatic lamp post removal…

Before that, we will have "automatic smiles" feature, I believe. Like, every face in the frame will be made smiling.

Imaging a camera like that used in a war zone: scenes like "military ads" from South Park come to mind...

And you know what, the way things are going, that does not look like that big a stretch.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: McCurry Scandal?
« Reply #70 on: May 23, 2016, 08:12:48 am »

Before that, we will have "automatic smiles" feature, I believe...

No need to wait. For several years already, there are Sony models with a smile-detection feature. In other words, the camera snaps only when it detects a smile.

RSL

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Re: McCurry Scandal?
« Reply #71 on: May 23, 2016, 09:12:17 am »

Who would want to shoot a picture of a frown?
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GrahamBy

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Re: McCurry Scandal?
« Reply #72 on: May 23, 2016, 10:42:42 am »

In other words, the camera snaps only when it detects a smile.

"I'm sorry, my camera says that's not a smile. Can you smile better, please?"
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Ed B

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Re: McCurry Scandal?
« Reply #73 on: May 28, 2016, 12:23:18 am »

Apparently some internet sleuths have been going over McCurry's images and turned up more photoshopping.

http://petapixel.com/2016/05/26/photoshopped-photos-emerge-steve-mccurry-scandal/

Right along side that article is one that praises the effects of a new "powerful" photoshop tool called Content Aware Crop." Got to love that.

http://petapixel.com/2016/05/26/content-aware-crop-coming-photoshop-heres-sneak-peek/

All that aside, it is interesting Steve has deleted his blog. https://stevemccurry.wordpress.com/
And his Tumblr page seems to be gone as well.

Then there is a quote from him today.

"I think that [Photoshop] shouldn’t add or subtract things. I think that Photoshop is a tool to color correct and to do various sharpening and what not. Obviously everybody does that. That’s a tool that everybody uses. […] Color balance, everybody does that. I think as far as adding or subtracting things, that’s not something that needs to be done or should be done."
http://petapixel.com/2016/05/26/photoshopped-photos-emerge-steve-mccurry-scandal/

His thoughts seem to be all over the place. He says one thing and does another it seems. I've never been a fan of do as I say not as I do but this whole thing is just weird. Why delete the blog? Own your stuff Steve.

That said, the changes made to the images in question are minor and don't change the meaning in any significant way. I've always been a fan of his but he's making things worse with his actions.
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GrahamBy

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Re: McCurry Scandal?
« Reply #74 on: May 30, 2016, 09:47:42 am »

I just saw the PetaP article... it seems now that the vultures are circling. Most of the examples seemed relatively trivial, changes in colour saturation or exposure. I wonder if he did just hire someone who was a little too zealous: there is a person deleted from a bus stop in the far distance that really makes no difference at all. I just wish I had the same facility at removing the electric cable hanging in front of someone shot at a concert on the weekend...

Anyway, if he's a sensible person, he has most of his money in a safe bank account and he can ignore what idiots want to say about the demise of his "legacy".
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Rob C

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Re: McCurry Scandal?
« Reply #75 on: May 30, 2016, 09:57:17 am »

I just saw the PetaP article... it seems now that the vultures are circling. Most of the examples seemed relatively trivial, changes in colour saturation or exposure. I wonder if he did just hire someone who was a little too zealous: there is a person deleted from a bus stop in the far distance that really makes no difference at all. I just wish I had the same facility at removing the electric cable hanging in front of someone shot at a concert on the weekend...

Anyway, if he's a sensible person, he has most of his money in a safe bank account and he can ignore what idiots want to say about the demise of his "legacy".


Never mind the snapper, 'legacy' has got to be the silliest concept ever to enter into a public figure's mind!

Anybody remember all the fuss about Tony Blair's 'legacy'?

But yeah, he did the right (;-)) socialist thing and feathered his several nests very well indeed! Don't you just love how life pans out?

Rob

petermfiore

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Re: McCurry Scandal?
« Reply #76 on: May 30, 2016, 11:07:09 am »

If your lookin for truth, look within...

Peter

GrahamBy

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Re: McCurry Scandal?
« Reply #77 on: May 30, 2016, 12:10:02 pm »

Maybe this is what he meant in his opposition to "subtracting" things?

http://petapixel.com/2015/06/02/steve-mccurrys-assistant-busted-in-654358-afghan-girl-art-theft/
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Rob C

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Re: McCurry Scandal?
« Reply #78 on: May 30, 2016, 01:51:29 pm »

Maybe this is what he meant in his opposition to "subtracting" things?

http://petapixel.com/2015/06/02/steve-mccurrys-assistant-busted-in-654358-afghan-girl-art-theft/


Just can't get the staff these days...

;-)

Rob
« Last Edit: May 31, 2016, 03:05:54 pm by Rob C »
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