Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: Medium Format and Video  (Read 5286 times)

JoeKitchen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5022
Medium Format and Video
« on: April 29, 2016, 02:37:13 pm »

So a couple of nights ago I want to a retouching event my local ASMP chapter put on.  Essential they had the owner of one of the best retouching firms in the country come in and talk about what they do and the relationship between a retoucher and photographer. 

Something that really caught my eye was the creation of cinema-graphs from still pictures.  I have no desire to shoot video, but creating a still with some motion would be pretty bad ass. 

I just got off the phone with him talking about a personal project I want to do.  He told me that if I had a camera that did both stills and video, it would be so much easier.  I could capture the still and then grab a few seconds of video to drop in using after effects.

Yes, there certainly is a need for video with MFDB.  It may not be optimal for traditional video, but for something like this, it would be very beneficial. 
Logged
"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent

bdp

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 266
    • http://www.bendearnleyphotography.com
Re: Medium Format and Video
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2016, 04:08:54 pm »

The problem I see with video on still cameras is that they never record the full frame, it's always cropped down to 16:9 or something. So if you are doing motion to complement a still image, say in my case a magazine cover that then has a motion element for the iPad version of the cover, it means you have to pull back to make sure you don't lose the sides. Better than having to change cameras, but I don't know why it's always assumed by camera makers that we need cinema or TV screen proportions.

Ben
Logged

JoeKitchen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5022
Re: Medium Format and Video
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2016, 04:32:46 pm »

The problem I see with video on still cameras is that they never record the full frame, it's always cropped down to 16:9 or something. So if you are doing motion to complement a still image, say in my case a magazine cover that then has a motion element for the iPad version of the cover, it means you have to pull back to make sure you don't lose the sides. Better than having to change cameras, but I don't know why it's always assumed by camera makers that we need cinema or TV screen proportions.

Ben

True, that does annoy me too, now, I guess. 
Logged
"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent

bdp

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 266
    • http://www.bendearnleyphotography.com
Re: Medium Format and Video
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2016, 05:52:33 pm »

Yes, the other challenge for stills guys shooting video is getting the hang of grading, especially if you don't want it to look flat and indie-film like, but more like the punchy stills you have just shot. Videos on Dslrs/Sonys is essentially thousands of jpegs so there's not much room to push them around before they get grainy and highlights blow out etc. I'm keen to see what the video will be like on the Hasselblad H6, because the specs mention it shoots RAW, and can be processed in Phocus before transcoding to Prores, so it will be hopefully a much more flexible file and a more familiar process for photographers.
Logged

JoeKitchen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5022
Re: Medium Format and Video
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2016, 07:50:22 pm »

Yes, the other challenge for stills guys shooting video is getting the hang of grading, especially if you don't want it to look flat and indie-film like, but more like the punchy stills you have just shot. Videos on Dslrs/Sonys is essentially thousands of jpegs so there's not much room to push them around before they get grainy and highlights blow out etc. I'm keen to see what the video will be like on the Hasselblad H6, because the specs mention it shoots RAW, and can be processed in Phocus before transcoding to Prores, so it will be hopefully a much more flexible file and a more familiar process for photographers.

This is what professionals are for!

I absolutely despise retouching.  I don't mind working a raw file in C1, but I hate doing anything in PS.  I often will work a file to as far as I can in raw, and then not touch it again for a week because I know I have to take it to PS to get it done. 

So, here, I would hire it out. 
Logged
"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent

bdp

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 266
    • http://www.bendearnleyphotography.com
Re: Medium Format and Video
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2016, 08:17:41 pm »

Ha, well each to their own! I quite like the retouching/grading side and think it's part of a photographers personal 'look'. Besides, who's got the time or money to pay third parties with budgets what they are these days!

Ben
Logged

JoeKitchen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5022
Re: Medium Format and Video
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2016, 09:14:47 pm »

Ha, well each to their own! I quite like the retouching/grading side and think it's part of a photographers personal 'look'. Besides, who's got the time or money to pay third parties with budgets what they are these days!

Ben

Well, the grading and color processing and contrast and dodging/burning and what not, I like.  The tedious shit, like cutting out hanging chandeliers from faster exposures to drop in over the same chandeliers in the actual exposures because they were swaying and you could not do anything about it, really really gets me. 

With this kind of work, like splicing video and stills to make a gif, let the pros do it.  Not to mention it will look better in the end. 
Logged
"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent

alatreille

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 428
    • Between the Buildings
Re: Medium Format and Video
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2016, 10:16:46 pm »

Well, the grading and color processing and contrast and dodging/burning and what not, I like.  The tedious shit, like cutting out hanging chandeliers from faster exposures to drop in over the same chandeliers in the actual exposures because they were swaying and you could not do anything about it, really really gets me. 

+1....

or cleaning dirty glass because the assignment was rushed before the builder did their final clean....hoo hum

Logged
Architectural Photographer
http://www.andrewlatreille.com

eronald

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6642
    • My gallery on Instagram
Re: Medium Format and Video
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2016, 10:31:58 pm »

Well, most makers of lower end cameras do and as you mentioned the thought is the standard for video on broadcast and the web is 16x9, though in reality we've all see 4:3 videos, 1:85 to 1, 2 to 1 in broadcast and even much wider in cinema.

People love standards, but honestly I wish they all would offer square to 2 to 1.

I've shot a lot of still frame videos, with all kinds of cameras, even to go as far shoot 4:3 in medium format.

In editing them down I have a few processes, one even being lightroom to produce a series of image stills that we put in the edl for image sequences.

You can really do some interesting looks from stills in motion, but it does take testing. 

It really depends on the look/style your after and if you displaying in quicktime as a final edit, you can easily crop the black sides off a quicktime video with a simple mask.

Though right now it's basically untested the new Canon 1dxII will allow for high quality stills along with footage, though their 4k standard is around 185 to 1 but nothing stops anyone from cropping or changing the look.

It will be interesting to see how the 1dxII performs because even though it uses an older codec of motion jpeg due to heat, it has a high bit rate and each frame is captured independently.

I know people will go OMG JPEG, but remember every movie you see from the dcp is an image sequence of jpeg 2000.

IMO

BC

GH4 has one decent bit rate codec that does intra-frame only compression ie. independent frames, I think. They have released a firmware, this is optimised for extracting stills from motion; but maybe they even have a better HD codec. Of course in your book these cameras are toys - I would agree, but high-end is not for everybody's budget.

Very strangely I've found my GH4 gives MUCH better results when extracting stills from motion than when shooting still images. I've found the motion stills out of Final Cut Pro X nothing short of incredible. Probably something Im doing wrong but these days with Alzheimer looming even my PhD isn't enough training to assemble a Lego kit without difficulty, or set a camera, and my english is not good enough to read an instruction manual written in Tokyo. I *think* the GH4 can shoot at least HD in 4/3 format, but I'm not sure.

Edmund
« Last Edit: April 29, 2016, 10:35:34 pm by eronald »
Logged
If you appreciate my blog posts help me by following on https://instagram.com/edmundronald

douglevy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 368
    • New England Wedding Photographer Doug Levy
Re: Medium Format and Video
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2016, 10:45:36 pm »

While we're on the subject - I assume you're talking about this - http://www.esquire.com/entertainment/movies/a41394/sundance-photographs-2016/

I know she shoots Canon/Hasselblad (maybe more too), but no idea how this was done.

NickT

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 269
Re: Medium Format and Video
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2016, 01:43:54 am »

+1....

or cleaning dirty glass because the assignment was rushed before the builder did their final clean....hoo hum
Duplicate layer, dust and scratches, hide all mask and paint back. Just saying :)
Logged

Jager

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 207
    • E vestigio
Re: Medium Format and Video
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2016, 06:00:46 am »

Can anyone describe, or link to a source, that shows how these "stills with motion" are created?

bdp

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 266
    • http://www.bendearnleyphotography.com
Re: Medium Format and Video
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2016, 06:53:01 am »

Can anyone describe, or link to a source, that shows how these "stills with motion" are created?

See post #10 above by Doug for one example.
Logged

Jager

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 207
    • E vestigio
Re: Medium Format and Video
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2016, 07:06:05 am »

See post #10 above by Doug for one example.

Thanks, aye, Doug's post is what sparked my interest.

But those are finished examples.  I'm looking for how they're done.

bdp

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 266
    • http://www.bendearnleyphotography.com
Re: Medium Format and Video
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2016, 07:39:29 am »

Thanks, aye, Doug's post is what sparked my interest.

But those are finished examples.  I'm looking for how they're done.

Sorry, my bad.
Logged

JoeKitchen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5022
Re: Medium Format and Video
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2016, 11:26:34 am »

You can do it in PS, but you need the extended version or the current monthly plan version. 

It is not too hard if you are just doing it all from a video file.  It gets harder when you are layering motion and effects over an image.  Hence, why you hire it out. 
Logged
"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent

JoeKitchen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5022
Re: Medium Format and Video
« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2016, 11:30:58 am »

Found this. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DU0Sim_BJ4

The more I think about this, the more I am of the opinion that Phase One is not looking to the future by not incorporating video into their CMOS backs. 

I know that high quality traditional video would probably never work in such a small box (due to many reasons, or at least for any long recordings), but for something like this, it is a disadvantage to not have a video option. 
Logged
"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent

JoeKitchen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5022
Re: Medium Format and Video
« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2016, 12:07:01 pm »

Just watched another video on adding motion to a still using After Effects. 

With out a doubt, way over my head and not something I have the time, nor the desire, to learn. 
Logged
"Photography is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent

araucaria

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 77
Re: Medium Format and Video
« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2016, 12:48:30 pm »

Raw video comes in handy for this stuff, as you can apply your usual photoworkflow, and it gives very good quality. The cheapest way is a canon 5d mkiii with the MagicLantern hack, this also opens the possibility of 3:2 videos (1920x1280, I think this is good enough for WEB consumption). I wouldn't be scared of the hack nature, as this has been around for some while. Shooting a movie would be another story, but for short clips, it's perfect I think.

You could also try RED or the new hasselblad for higher resolutions.;D
Logged

douglevy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 368
    • New England Wedding Photographer Doug Levy
Re: Medium Format and Video
« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2016, 02:34:38 pm »

Great conversation - thanks guys.
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up