Canon EOS1DX MKII - Full Production ISO Samples

[Jack Hogan]

But maybe one stop more is within easy reach for the next Canon 1Dx by going to a back-illuminated sensor?

Doubt it Edmund, BSI shows its mettle with smaller pixels - it does not make that much of a difference for larger ones with decent microlenses.  And BSI supposedly offers a sensitivity improvement of no more than 0.5 stop, bringing problems of its own.  But perhaps the 1DXII's gapless microlenses will help a bit.  And maybe they will have tweaked the CFA recipes

If the 1DXII brought ADCs on board the sensor one is likely to see that improvement at lower ISOs, which would be great news.  Like Bernard said, the low hanging fruit has mostly been picked.  Some incremental improvements are still the order of the day, just don't expect to see the deep shadows revolutionized.  Look at Nikon, in order to get an extra, what, half stop of usable DR at high ISOs on the D5 they had to give up at least twice that at low ISOs 

Jack

[dwswager]

these 2 situations have the same exposure, then what happens is that "camera" is processing the same charge (collected photons converted to e) differently... ISO/gain is not a part of exposure... exposure != "image"

I guarantee you do not get the same same data in the file.  You get the same light hitting the sensor, that is for sure, but the data will not be the same precisely because the GAIN will be different.  We used to push film too and you don't get the same thing with film developed for proper gain and film pushed 2 or 3 stops.  Processing matters because it is at that point you have a usable image.  RAW sensor data is not.

Only at the point we have gain independent technology, which we don't have yet, would it be responsible to discuss removing processing from the exposure equation.

[eronald]

Doubt it Edmund, BSI shows its mettle with smaller pixels - it does not make that much of a difference for larger ones with decent microlenses.  And BSI supposedly offers a sensitivity improvement of no more than 0.5 stop, bringing problems of its own.  But perhaps the 1DXII's gapless microlenses will help a bit.  And maybe they will have tweaked the CFA recipes

If the 1DXII brought ADCs on board the sensor one is likely to see that improvement at lower ISOs, which would be great news.  Like Bernard said, the low hanging fruit has mostly been picked.  Some incremental improvements are still the order of the day, just don't expect to see the deep shadows revolutionized.  Look at Nikon, in order to get an extra, what, half stop of usable DR at high ISOs on the D5 they had to give up at least twice that at low ISOs 

Jack

Jack,

 It's a relief to be talking to someone who doesn't have the IQ of a snail
 I do wonder however what effect the gapless microlens sensor has on MTF - I suspect resolution goes down.
 And then there is what one really sees at high ISOs on many cameras with external ADCs namely striping due to ADC mismatch ...I think onboard ADCs are easier to calibrate and keep matched. And *practical* ISO is in effect limited by the stripes becoming visible.

Edmund

[AlterEgo]

I guarantee you do not get the same same data in the file.

you are trying to switch the topic _from_ exposure _to_ the content of raw files - 2 different things... again : (1) exposure = exposure time and aperture (assuming given illumination of course), ISO/gain does not define how many photons hit the sensor / that what exposure is / when you have set your exposure time and aperture... and then (2) digital data in raw file = exposure _PLUS_ sensel capacity (might be variable) & processing applied (on various stages : analog and/or digital) by sensor|sensel schematics / ADC(s) / firmware based on many things, ISO/gain included...

what you fail to understand (or pretend for rhetorical purposes) is that photographer or camera's firmware make a decision about exposure (only two parameters = exposure time and aperture) based on ISO/gain, which controls things that happens mostly after exposure ends ( analog and/or digital gain and/or tag in raw file as an instruction for raw converters ) and/or in some cases before exposure starts ( sensel capacity )

[Josh-H]

http://www.dpreview.com/news/8090146652/canon-eos-1d-x-mark-ii-studio-tests/1

[Paul2660]

I spent a lot of time yesterday on this comparison at dpreview.

At 12800 ISO which is by far the fastest ISO I would consider I just don't see much if any differences between the 1DX MkII and the 6D especially in the part of the image that features the color checker.

In fact adding in the nikon D5 and all three look similar. The only cameras I tried that were worse were the Nikon D810 and Sony A7 RII.

6D was and still is a benchmark camera in many ways for Canon.

Paul C