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Author Topic: ON1...  (Read 3632 times)

AlterEgo

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ON1...
« on: April 26, 2016, 04:09:27 PM »

http://petapixel.com/2016/04/26/on1-photo-raw-first-new-raw-processor-released-decade/

Quote
Sick of Camera RAW and Lightroom? Want a brand-spanking-new RAW photo processor and non-destructive editor to work in that isn’t made by Adobe? Your wish is ON1’s command.

Today, ON1 introduced ON1 Photo RAW, a program they’re calling, “the first all-new RAW processor and non-destructive photo editor to be released in more than a decade.”

 ::)

/flame bait/ I have heard they contracted Schewe to write a book, titled REAL WORLD ON1 RAW
« Last Edit: April 26, 2016, 04:13:44 PM by AlterEgo »
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Lundberg02

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Re: ON1...
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2016, 07:28:49 PM »

if it's like their other stuff, they made some crazy decision.
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ihv

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Re: ON1...
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2016, 10:13:47 AM »

A little update on the topic: http://petapixel.com/2016/09/27/heres-first-look-on1s-upcoming-raw-photo-processor/

Looks pretty fast, also has content aware brush. If it all works well there might be a good competitor to LR/C1
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kirkt

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Re: ON1...
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2016, 11:27:05 AM »

It should be an interesting product to try.  In many ways, it resembles much of what was discussed and proposed back in the "If Thomas designed a new Photoshop for photographers now..." thread that was active here last year.

At the pre-order price, it is a no-brainer.

kirk
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IanSeward

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Re: ON1...
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2016, 06:40:06 AM »

It should be an interesting product to try.  In many ways, it resembles much of what was discussed and proposed back in the "If Thomas designed a new Photoshop for photographers now..." thread that was active here last year.

At the pre-order price, it is a no-brainer.

kirk

Agreed it looks very interesting and I will certainly be investigating :-)

Ian
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BartvanderWolf

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Re: ON1...
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2016, 07:11:28 AM »

It should be an interesting product to try.

Yes, I'm looking forward to testing it. It uses a parametric workflow that reprocesses the Raw conversion on the fly (sometimes up to 30x per second, during the use of the controls while processing goes on in the background).

I believe that release is scheduled for November.

Cheers,
Bart
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TheDocAUS

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Re: ON1...
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2016, 12:22:18 AM »

ON1 Plus users will get the beta in October.
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scyth

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Re: ON1...
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2016, 10:41:45 AM »

reprocesses the Raw conversion on the fly
part of raw conversion, you are not seriously trusting them to redemosaick up to 30 times a second... RPP for example always redo (as things like exposure correction or it's WB incarnation are done predemosaick - so it has to, but commercial converters like ACR mostly won't otherwise UI will be slow like molasses
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BartvanderWolf

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Re: ON1...
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2016, 11:12:42 AM »

part of raw conversion, you are not seriously trusting them to redemosaick up to 30 times a second... RPP for example always redo (as things like exposure correction or it's WB incarnation are done predemosaick - so it has to, but commercial converters like ACR mostly won't otherwise UI will be slow like molasses

Hi,

From what I've read (the final release is not available yet) it uses the GPU(s) extensively, so it is not impossible to get such speeds, especially if one zooms in to less than full file size. Of course, we'll have to see in practice what exactly gets reprocessed. There are some things (e.g. lateral CA removal) that can be done pre-demosaicing, so we'll have to see if that's how they do it.

Cheers,
Bart
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Dan Wells

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Re: ON1... (is it dcraw by any other name?)
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2016, 11:00:05 PM »

Looking at the compatibility list (which seems to apply BOTH to the current Photo 10 and the new Photo RAW - is this an error on On1's support page?), it doesn't seem to support the latest Fuji X-Trans III sensors (the 16 MP Fujis are there, but not the 24 MP X-Pro 2 and X-T2). Interestingly, and I only noticed this because "Apple" is very close to the beginning of the alphabet and wound up on Page 1 of their list, they support the ancient (~1994) Apple QuickTake models (but NOT raw from the iPhone 7)...

The list may just be not quite up to date, because the X-Pro 2 and X-T2 are not the only recent cameras missing - the Pentax K-1 and Nikon D500 and D5 are missing as well - I really can't imagine them releasing without the Nikons and even the Pentax, since they are all standard Bayer cameras (the Nikons in particular are professionally important), and On1 already understands their header info (etc.) since they support .NEF and .PEF from other cameras. The 24 MP X-Trans is a bit more of a hassle, but an important one, since those are popular cameras whose owners are looking for better conversion.

What worries me about a list that includes the ancient QuickTakes, but not recent, relatively popular cameras, is that it suggests that this is an off-the-shelf RAW engine from somewhere (unless it's a mistake, and On1 Photo 10 is an off-the-shelf RAW engine, but Photo RAW is custom). NO ONE would develop for the QuickTakes today - where would you ever find one??? I am not at all sure that I don't personally own more X-Trans III cameras (two - one each X-Pro 2 and X-T2) than there are QuickTakes in the world in daily use today (the number in really active use could easily be 0 or 1, given that they are 0.3 MP cameras that require an Apple Serial connection that disappeared on the Blue & White Power Mac G3 in 1999). dcraw is known to support the old QuickTakes (and a number of other extremely obscure formats that On1 also picks up - ARRIRAW, for example, which only shows up in $50,000 movie cameras), raising the question "is this just an expensive front end to dcraw?". Further suggesting that it is dcraw based, the compatibility list has a bunch of odd notes about "hacked" cameras and the like, which are identical to the similar notes in dcraw's compatibility list.

The current dcraw list does include the newer cameras (not the X-T2, but the X-Pro 2 and the Nikons and Pentax), suggesting that On1 will pick them up in short order.

Could the image quality be the improvement they're claiming, if it's dcraw? Wouldn't any converter based on the same engine be pretty similar, at least in basic demosaicing (they could certainly differ in later adjustments to the file)? Maybe I'm unusually sensitive to demosaicing as a Fuji shooter, since Lightroom used to do an "interesting" job of it and still isn't perfect... I tried to find out how good or bad dcraw is at demosaicing Fuji files, but couldn't find any real info...
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BartvanderWolf

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Re: ON1... (is it dcraw by any other name?)
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2016, 06:40:11 AM »

Could the image quality be the improvement they're claiming, if it's dcraw?

Hi Dan,

DCRaw also allows to extract the undemosaiced data. What happens next remains to be seen with the actual Raw converter. The ON1 Photo 10 raw converter is IMHO not that special, let's hope the new dedicated Raw converter engine is. As for supported models, that can always change with updates.

Cheers,
Bart
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Adam L

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Re: ON1...
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2016, 10:39:37 AM »

They list the Sigma Merrill cameras as a raw compatible format for Windows.  That's interesting.   I don't see any mention of lens correction on the site? 
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Chris_Brown

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Re: ON1...
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2016, 11:11:51 AM »

They list the Sigma Merrill cameras as a raw compatible format for Windows.  That's interesting.   I don't see any mention of lens correction on the site?

From their YouTube comments:

Quote
Q: What about lens recognition? Does it have that?

Reply: Initially ON1 Photo RAW will not have camera and lens profiles. Those are features we will be working on over the next year.
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pluton

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Re: ON1... (is it dcraw by any other name?)
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2016, 03:45:08 AM »


Could the image quality be the improvement they're claiming, if it's dcraw? Wouldn't any converter based on the same engine be pretty similar, at least in basic demosaicing (they could certainly differ in later adjustments to the file)? Maybe I'm unusually sensitive to demosaicing as a Fuji shooter, since Lightroom used to do an "interesting" job of it and still isn't perfect... I tried to find out how good or bad dcraw is at demosaicing Fuji files, but couldn't find any real info...

DCRaw is the best at XTrans-1 raw conversion.  I can't speak about Xtrans-2 or XTrans-3.
There was an extensive discussion about DCRaw versus ACR at the fotozones.com forum. Look for posts by Alan7140, going back to 2013.
I have a had a Fuji XE1 for over three years now, acquiring it right about the time that Adobe improved their XTrans raw demosaic from pretty bad to sort of OK.  If small detail in the shot is critical, Photo Ninja and Iridient(Mac only) are visibly superior to ACR, in [not just]my opinion.  I briefly tried Capture one, and frankly found it to be in-between ACR on the low end and Photo Ninja/Iridient on the high end.
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TheDocAUS

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Re: ON1...
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2016, 05:52:40 PM »

ON1 Photo Raw is being released publicly on 23 Nov 2016.
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