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Author Topic: Does ACR save the Camera Calibration Data into the XMP?  (Read 1591 times)

dwswager

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Does ACR save the Camera Calibration Data into the XMP?
« on: April 24, 2016, 10:38:03 PM »

I just had a disturbing thought and have not been able to Google up an answer.  I use the ColorChecker Passport to make camera calibration profiles for some situations.  My thought was, what if ACR does not write the camera calibration data into the XMP and the .dcp file is no longer available.  It basically renders all the adjustments mute since the camera calibration provides the starting point for the conversion.  This would be a major downside to using custom profiles and would require scrupulous backing up of these files with the RAW file that utilize them.
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Schewe

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Re: Does ACR save the Camera Calibration Data into the XMP?
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2016, 10:52:45 PM »

No...the profile is noted in xmp but not the whole profile. The only way to have the profile to travel with a file is to use DNG. The profile is (I'm pretty sure) embedded in the DNG. Useful if you are sending raws to other people.
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dwswager

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Re: Does ACR save the Camera Calibration Data into the XMP?
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2016, 08:33:55 AM »

No...the profile is noted in xmp but not the whole profile. The only way to have the profile to travel with a file is to use DNG. The profile is (I'm pretty sure) embedded in the DNG. Useful if you are sending raws to other people.

Somewhat defeats the benefits of non-destructive editing.  The camera calibration instructions are the most important non destructive edit.  Guess I need to add "Copy any custom camera calibration profile to the job directory" to the workflow task list.  Guess it also makes sense to save copies of converted files as well; TIF or at least full resolution JPEGs, depending on the job.  I'm all for a common RAW format, but until the manufacturers support it, DNG is not it.
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AlterEgo

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Re: Does ACR save the Camera Calibration Data into the XMP?
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2016, 09:34:03 AM »

Somewhat defeats the benefits of non-destructive editing.  The camera calibration instructions are the most important non destructive edit.  Guess I need to add "Copy any custom camera calibration profile to the job directory" to the workflow task list.  Guess it also makes sense to save copies of converted files as well; TIF or at least full resolution JPEGs, depending on the job.  I'm all for a common RAW format, but until the manufacturers support it, DNG is not it.

Adobe (I mean Eric C.) was asked to have an option for ACR to pickup profiles (show in ACR UI) from the directory where the current (the one which we are working with in ACR) raw file is located - but refused...

C1 btw can store (you can disable that too, albeit not in a straightforward way) a copy of icc/icm camera profile for each raw processed...
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Schewe

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Re: Does ACR save the Camera Calibration Data into the XMP?
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2016, 12:15:56 AM »

I'm all for a common RAW format, but until the manufacturers support it, DNG is not it.

Actually, DNG makes for a robust delivery format. No worries about keeping the files and the .xmp files together.
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AlterEgo

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Re: Does ACR save the Camera Calibration Data into the XMP?
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2016, 10:19:48 AM »

Actually, DNG makes for a robust delivery format.
very true as an intermediate format in a workflow where tools use DNG... but Adobe must, for example, add options to strip added embedded profiles if you want to.
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dwswager

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Re: Does ACR save the Camera Calibration Data into the XMP?
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2016, 12:38:47 PM »

Actually, DNG makes for a robust delivery format. No worries about keeping the files and the .xmp files together.

I agree with this.  And I was all for DNG when it first appeared and have flirted with it ever since.  Not having the sidecar XMP file would be nice, though I usually handle files within Bridge or Lightroom which move them with the files or on a folder basis where it also is not an issue.  But non-Adobe converters handle the native file better than a DNG from the native file.  I would think they would be able to read the camera information from the DNG and process appropriately, but apparently not.

It would be a blessing if the entire industry could get behind a full featured file format for RAW files!  Hell, I'd take something like MKV for video files.  Stuff whatever you want in the container and let the decoder figure it out.
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digitaldog

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Re: Does ACR save the Camera Calibration Data into the XMP?
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2016, 09:26:39 AM »

very true as an intermediate format in a workflow where tools use DNG... but Adobe must, for example, add options to strip added embedded profiles if you want to.
AFAIK, DNG allows for multiple profiles to be embedded. How one selects one I'm unsure.
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AlterEgo

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Re: Does ACR save the Camera Calibration Data into the XMP?
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2016, 10:26:28 AM »

AFAIK, DNG allows for multiple profiles to be embedded. How one selects one I'm unsure.

I was making a point that Adobe must follow through and allow options to remove the profiles from DNG too... otherwise they have somewhat half done functionality, IMHO
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dwswager

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Re: Does ACR save the Camera Calibration Data into the XMP?
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2016, 02:50:12 PM »

I was making a point that Adobe must follow through and allow options to remove the profiles from DNG too... otherwise they have somewhat half done functionality, IMHO

We are off my topic somewhat, but I thought LR and ACR allowed you to choose the Camera Calibration you wanted to utilize, including the embedded profiles.  I don't use DNG so I'm no expert.  While having multiple CC profiles embedded may not be optimal, being able to choose is a decent alternative to being able to remove them.
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AlterEgo

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Re: Does ACR save the Camera Calibration Data into the XMP?
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2016, 02:56:25 PM »

We are off my topic somewhat, but I thought LR and ACR allowed you to choose the Camera Calibration you wanted to utilize, including the embedded profiles.  I don't use DNG so I'm no expert.  While having multiple CC profiles embedded may not be optimal, being able to choose is a decent alternative to being able to remove them.

you can select them, but how is that an alternative to being able to delete too them w/o any hassle...
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dwswager

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Re: Does ACR save the Camera Calibration Data into the XMP?
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2016, 03:07:39 PM »

you can select them, but how is that an alternative to being able to delete too them w/o any hassle...

First, what is the issue with having them there other than 1) taking up some space, though small compared to the image data itself and 2) possible confusion of applying the wrong (unintended) profile?

I would find it a big problem if it just kept packing them in there and always defaulted to the last saved or unknown profile.  But missing what the big issue is here.
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