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Author Topic: Uprezing for printing a 6'56" x 6'56" (2 x 2 meters)  (Read 3681 times)

marimagen

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Uprezing for printing a 6'56" x 6'56" (2 x 2 meters)
« on: April 15, 2016, 06:58:31 am »

Hi, I have a photo taken with my Nikon D700, which is 4256x2832 pixels. My client wants me to print it in 2 x 2 meters which is 6 feet 56 by 6 feet 56. As you can see, I'm loosing even more pixels since it's a square format. Which uprez program should I use to ensure the best results? The photo will be seen from close up since it's supposed to be hung in the entrance hall of a building. Thanks in advance, Marie
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shadowblade

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Re: Uprezing for printing a 6'56" x 6'56" (2 x 2 meters)
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2016, 07:06:05 am »

You won't have enough resolution for 2x2m up close, no matter what interpolation program you use.

At that size, you only have 35ppi - or slightly more than one original pixel per millimetre. You can make it look good from a distance, but, up close, you won't get much more than a fuzzy blur.
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TheDocAUS

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Re: Uprezing for printing a 6'56" x 6'56" (2 x 2 meters)
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2016, 07:13:07 am »

Thats a big ask, and close up it will not work very well in terms of sharpness.

Take a look at ON1's Perfect Resize 10 (aka Genuine Fractals) or Alien Software's Blow Up.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2016, 07:16:36 am by TheDocAUS »
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Uprezing for printing a 6'56" x 6'56" (2 x 2 meters)
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2016, 08:01:45 am »

You won't have enough resolution for 2x2m up close, no matter what interpolation program you use.

At that size, you only have 35ppi - or slightly more than one original pixel per millimetre. You can make it look good from a distance, but, up close, you won't get much more than a fuzzy blur.

I agree. At a viewing distance of 2.5 metres or more, a 35 PPI magnified D700 image will look as sharp as a small print at reading distance, closer viewing will start to look blurry. Depending on the subject matter (e.g. with high contrast edges) one can gain some actual resolution by using Photozoom Pro (similar to Blow-up), or Perfect Resize, because they can retain most of the sharp edges regardless of the magnification.

Output sharpening and detail enhancement applied on the image after being resized to the native printer resolution (usually 300 or 360 PPI), will allow to visually beef up the visual impact. A Plugin like Topaz Detail can do wonders there, but it will have to work on a very large file (23622 x 23622 pixels @300PPI or 28346 x 28346 pixels @360PPI), so it needs a capable computer and some time to pull it off with maximum achievable quality (assuming a single file is printed and not in 2 strips).

Cheers,
Bart
« Last Edit: April 15, 2016, 08:05:50 am by BartvanderWolf »
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marimagen

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Re: Uprezing for printing a 6'56" x 6'56" (2 x 2 meters)
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2016, 12:27:06 pm »

Thanks to all of you for your input. It's the first time I'm asked to do a print job that size. Probably the last ;-)   Marie
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Stephen Ray

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Re: Uprezing for printing a 6'56" x 6'56" (2 x 2 meters)
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2016, 03:39:43 pm »

Marie,

Are you, yourself, printing the file to the large size or is a printing service providing the final product?

I know many print services may provide a 100% test strip to give the customer(s) an idea of the final resolution. It could also be the job of the print provider to up-rez the file as opposed to yourself.

I’ve printed many large (20ft x 6ft, etc.) photos from cameras similar to yours for display in galleries and public areas and they served their purpose. Yes, some subject matters were more forgiving than others. Extreme close-ups of soft flower petals and motion-blurred horses were pretty easy and beautiful.

Does your photo lend itself?

As for some other replies above; Is PPI being confused with DPI? Is one expecting the printer to deliver a single colored (square) pixel-for-pixel?
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enduser

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Re: Uprezing for printing a 6'56" x 6'56" (2 x 2 meters)
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2016, 03:35:20 am »

2m x 2m is 6.56 ft x 6.56 ft., not 6 foot 56 inches.
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shadowblade

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Re: Uprezing for printing a 6'56" x 6'56" (2 x 2 meters)
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2016, 04:03:14 am »

As for some other replies above; Is PPI being confused with DPI? Is one expecting the printer to deliver a single colored (square) pixel-for-pixel?

Definitely not being confused. The printer is still going to print at 1200/1440/2400/2880 dpi. But, with only 35ppi, all you're going to get is one coloured smudge blurring into the next coloured smudge, rather than anything sharp.

Fine if it's only going to be viewed from a distance, or if it's an abstract work which is all bokeh and no detail. But, if it has any detail in it at all, it's not going to hold up to close (or even medium-distance) scrutiny.
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marimagen

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Re: Uprezing for printing a 6'56" x 6'56" (2 x 2 meters)
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2016, 04:49:55 am »

Thank you guys. You're right enduser, its 6.56 feet. Shadowblade, I have an appointment with the printing house on Monday since I cannot print a photo this size myself. The subject might be forgiving, it's leaves in the water. In the original they're really sharp, but I guess they can stand some fuzziness. Now if all we'll see is spots of color, I'm not sure there's any point printing it, really. I hope the guy at the printer's will do a strip test so I can get a better idea of the final result. Marie
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Uprezing for printing a 6'56" x 6'56" (2 x 2 meters)
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2016, 11:21:46 am »

...scrutiny.

Ah, yes, scrutiny. That's what photographers provide. General public, which I assume is the target audience, could not care less for our ppi, dpi, "critical" sharpness, pixel peeping, etc. They look for emotional impact. Once they get that, there is very little incentive to engage in a gynecological exam of details up close and personal.

I've seen a print from Thomas Mangelsen of a similar size, done with an early Nikon digital camera, with chroma noise the size of a golf ball...nobody cared. Or from a film, with similarly sized grain and blurred details, and again...nobody cared.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2016, 12:32:10 pm by Slobodan Blagojevic »
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Mark Lindquist

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Re: Uprezing for printing a 6'56" x 6'56" (2 x 2 meters)
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2016, 12:06:21 pm »

Ah, yes, scrutiny. That's what photographers provide. General public, which I assume is the target audience, could not care less for our ppi, dpi, "critical" sharpness, pixel peeping, etc. They look for emotional impact. Once they get that, there is very little incentive to engage in a gynecological exam of details up close and personal.

I've seen a print from Thomas Mangelsen of a similar size, done with and early Nikon digital camera, with chroma noise the size of a golf ball...nobody cared. Or from a film, with similarly sized grain and blurred details, and again...nobody cared.

I think this is true for the most part Slobodan - I would agree with you.  For that matter, an audience may take "poor resolution" for artistic statement for all we know.  I too have seen many blown up prints beyond their limits and from a distance no problem, up close, a soft blur that no one cared either way about.  The aspect of emotional impact is correct in my opinion as well.  What does the photo say, and how does it say it?  Many photos by "the greats" have been enlarged past their expected norms, and they still communicate a message.  Of course it would be nice to have it the way we mostly expect things to be, but it really isn't that kind of world out there always.  Sometimes just doing it yields surprising results, or should I say, an unexpected positive outcome.  It also depends on the image and the context in which it is shown.  A soft image might be just the thing.  Also, you really can't know until you try it.  Each print is it's own, of course.... 

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TonyW

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Re: Uprezing for printing a 6'56" x 6'56" (2 x 2 meters)
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2016, 12:14:59 pm »

Thank you guys. You're right enduser, its 6.56 feet. Shadowblade, I have an appointment with the printing house on Monday since I cannot print a photo this size myself. The subject might be forgiving, it's leaves in the water. In the original they're really sharp, but I guess they can stand some fuzziness. Now if all we'll see is spots of color, I'm not sure there's any point printing it, really. I hope the guy at the printer's will do a strip test so I can get a better idea of the final result. Marie
it sounds like a case of managing the clients expectations. 

If you can get a test strip printed of a detail area and stress a 'correct' viewing distance rather than let the client imagine that they can view up close then you may find all is well after the client sees the test orint
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Mark Lindquist

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Re: Uprezing for printing a 6'56" x 6'56" (2 x 2 meters)
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2016, 12:28:35 pm »

Hi, I have a photo taken with my Nikon D700, which is 4256x2832 pixels. My client wants me to print it in 2 x 2 meters which is 6 feet 56 by 6 feet 56. As you can see, I'm loosing even more pixels since it's a square format. Which uprez program should I use to ensure the best results? The photo will be seen from close up since it's supposed to be hung in the entrance hall of a building. Thanks in advance, Marie

Marimagen,

May I suggest an approach to editing your image?  I've recently completed a major commission of 5 pieces that were 4'x8' tall, the largest.  The smallest were 4' x 6'.  What I found was that the best and most positive results were attained by opening the image in RAW in NX2.  Just opening it, with no adjustments.  Then opening that image in PS CC2015 and immediately upsizing it to the actual finished size it will be, using "automatic" and setting the dpi at 300.
Once the image is at actual size, you would be editing "real time".  I advocate doing duplicate adjustment layers and making layer masks filled with black, where the lighter or darker areas can be painted in with the white brush at opacity of 23 and flow of 27.  If your computer can't handle many layers at that scale, make your adjustments and flatten the image and begin again with the next adjustment layer. This is labor intensive and uses up a lot of hard drive space, but I believe this works better than making all the adjustments then finally making the image large at the end.

I suggest little if any sharpening if possible, but rather use unsharp mask at 20-40-0 (+/-). 

Try this and perhaps you will find less noise and acceptable sharpness as far as you can push the image.  This approach is contrary to how many experts espouse, yet I have had the best results doing many images this way.  If you need a noise layer, do it , paint it, then flatten it.

I really urge staying away from sharpening programs - it's just noise noise noise at that scale.  If you absolutely must sharpen, do a global sharpen layer then paint in the areas needed carefully.  I recommend Imagenomic for noise reduction with the Nikon camera you have.

Again, many may disagree with my approach, but I do work large, and this works for me.  See if this approach helps you.

Good luck -

Mark
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Mark Lindquist
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marimagen

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Re: Uprezing for printing a 6'56" x 6'56" (2 x 2 meters)
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2016, 01:53:59 pm »

You're right, the emotional impact is what people are really after. But Mark is suggesting a quite interesting approach. As I told you I have no experience at that scale, but it sounds worth to try. Thank you. Tomorrow I should have the feedback from the person at the printing shop. I'll decide on a course of action after I've talked to him. I'll let you know! Marie
bcnartist
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Uprezing for printing a 6'56" x 6'56" (2 x 2 meters)
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2016, 03:14:14 pm »

Marie, I see you are from Barcelona. Spent a few years there. If anyone complains your edges (in that image) are not straight and sharp, just blame Gaudi. No one ever seen straight edges in his work either ;)

Stephen Ray

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Re: Uprezing for printing a 6'56" x 6'56" (2 x 2 meters)
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2016, 04:51:32 pm »

Maybe resolution isn’t the main concern with your project…

1) Do you or you client expect a single print piece at that 2 meter size? If so, does your print provider actually have a printer that wide?

2) If your print provider has a printer that wide, what material can they provide you and your client? Paper, film, canvas, fabric, wood, metal, etc.?

3) How will the final print be finished / mounted / framed? Is it lightweight or heavy? How does this impact cost?

4) How is the final large art transported to the site?

5) Who actually hangs it on the wall?

6) Is the work guaranteed to everyone’s satisfaction?

By the way, I recommend you give a small, good print of your file at its native resolution to your print service to use as a color guide and give the same file for them to use for the large print. Your original pixels will undergo many transformations that are far out of your control.

I would like to know what you think of your test strip if you get a chance to report back.
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enduser

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Re: Uprezing for printing a 6'56" x 6'56" (2 x 2 meters)
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2016, 07:54:01 pm »

We have great success using Qimage to print very large images from DSLR files.  I think they have a free trial.
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marimagen

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Re: Uprezing for printing a 6'56" x 6'56" (2 x 2 meters)
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2016, 03:09:37 pm »

Thank you for all your inputs. After trying various solutions, I picked Perfect Resize plus the Topaz Detail plugin. The result is far from perfect but I hope it will be acceptable. The print shop will print it on dibond and they will install it themselves on the premises. I'll let you know how it looks. Marie
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funfoto

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Re: Uprezing for printing a 6'56" x 6'56" (2 x 2 meters)
« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2016, 12:42:25 am »

I would use PhotoZoom Pro. My tests compared to the others has lead me to believe it is the best one in my opinion. You can download a free demo and try it for yourself.
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Czornyj

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Re: Uprezing for printing a 6'56" x 6'56" (2 x 2 meters)
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2016, 07:52:51 am »

Keep it simple.
I'd resize it to 2x2m @ 150-200dpi using Bicubic smooth interpolation:


It certainly will start looking terribly plasticky, with artificially looking artifacts :


...but then add a bit of irregular grain (like CameraRaw or Lightroom Effects>Grain: 50/25/75) to it and it will come out nicely

« Last Edit: April 25, 2016, 07:58:12 am by Czornyj »
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