Problems with Epson 3800 when switching from Matte to Photo Black ink

[PhilipWatkins]

I'm getting some very strange results printing from Lightroom using Photo Black ink (on Moab Slickrock) paper on an Epson 3800 printer - with it producing some very unsaturated images that appear to be missing some (or perhaps most) of the colour.

I am able to print my images just fine using Matte Black ink & paper (Canson Acquarelle Arches), the colours come of just fine.  However, the instant I switch to Photo ink and metallic paper I am finding that the prints are very dull, and lacking most of the colour.  I switch back to the Matte Black ink and the colours instantly return for exactly the same image.

I'm using the correct print drivers.  The Photo Black has just been opened, along with about half of the other inks.  I've also just cleaned the nozzle.

Does anyone have any idea what I might be doing wrong?

[dgberg]

What does your nozzle check look like with Pk selected?
Cleaning is only necessary if something is clogged.
Was the Pk clogged at all before the clean?

[howardm]

I wonder if the switching valve is stuck in some form and in fact, you're never actually switching between MK & PK

[PhilipWatkins]

What does your nozzle check look like with Pk selected?
Cleaning is only necessary if something is clogged.
Was the Pk clogged at all before the clean?

It doesn't complete - it comes up with an error saying cleaning failed (no message number).

[PhilipWatkins]

I wonder if the switching valve is stuck in some form and in fact, you're never actually switching between MK & PK

Is this something I can control in someway ?

[howardm]

no, you have no control over it.  it happens automatically when you tell the printer to switch inks and it's one of the more common (if not most common)  'weak' or failure points on the 38xx series.

[dgberg]

It doesn't complete - it comes up with an error saying cleaning failed (no message number).

Lets back up a little.
What does your nozzle check look like?
The error message is a red flag as well.
In your printer screen it should show you which ink is selected in 2 ways.
It will say matte black or photo black. At the very bottom they should match.
The far left ink is matte and will show remaining level if selected. Photo black will be grid'd out.
If you have some sort of mismatch, now you have isolated a problem.

[PhilipWatkins]

Lets back up a little.
What does your nozzle check look like?
The error message is a red flag as well.
In your printer screen it should show you which ink is selected in 2 ways.
It will say matte black or photo black. At the very bottom they should match.
The far left ink is matte and will show remaining level if selected. Photo black will be grid'd out.
If you have some sort of mismatch, now you have isolated a problem.

OK I've had a chance to go through this - the nozzle check print (on Auto) shows most of the printed check boxes having colour in them.  However, there are 9 or 10 missed boxes (out of several hundred) in the magenta in the left most column.   The other colours are fine.  There is also a whole row that looks like it has been mucked up that runs across the sheet near the top of the page.  Now the Photo Black was set on the printer to the right of the READY on the printer console and it was taking black ink from the 2nd cartridge (PK) and matte black (MK) was greyed out.  So no mismatch.  The console reported "Cleaning Error: Press the cancel/reset button" (same as cleaning when using MK).  The 3800 utility reported "Print Head Cleaning Failure" (when running the Nozzle check on the MK the utility disappears entirely). 

This is similar to what it does with Matte - though I've found that I can clear a lot more problems running Nozzle checks with MK than PK ink (it also doesn't seem to last as long).  I've also not previously found that the Cleaning Error impacts on the quality of the prints. 

Not sure where all that leaves me or what my next step should be - any advice welcome.

[dgberg]

Something weird going on. Sorry if you know some or all of this, it just may be the way you are trying to explain your issue.
The nozzle check does not clean or clear anything. The nozzle check should be perfect or almost perfect after the clean cycle.
It just shows you the status of all the nozzles and if you need to clean the head.
It looks like the magenta has an issue.
Not sure what you mean by mucked up area?

So you are saying you cannot get a cleaning cycle to complete without the message?
Nozzle check, if any colors have missing lines
then do a head clean.
After the cleaning cycle run a nozzle check to see if the cleaning cleared your clog.

This does not address any of the black ink issues you may be having.
You are not aborting the cleaning cycle in mid stream somehow?

[BobShaw]

You seem to have a couple of issues. Some clogged nozzles which others have described as well as the issue in the subject line of switching Matte To Photo Black.
Having just spent $600 fixing that I'll talk about that one. I am assuming 3800 is the same as 3880 here.

If you do a nozzle check one of the biggest mistakes you can make is not realising if there aren't 8 patches of colour. If you count them up and there are only 7 then a colour is completely missing. That is usually the PK on the left hand side. That is a sure sign that the change over is not working or that the PK is completely empty, regardless of what the system status says. Check that and or weigh the cartridge.

Also you don't need a computer or any drivers to change from PK to MK. You can do it from the LCD display on the printer and see the progress or otherwise. If that is not working then it is the Ink Delivery System has failed.

[PhilipWatkins]

Something weird going on. Sorry if you know some or all of this, it just may be the way you are trying to explain your issue.
The nozzle check does not clean or clear anything. The nozzle check should be perfect or almost perfect after the clean cycle.
It just shows you the status of all the nozzles and if you need to clean the head.
It looks like the magenta has an issue.
Not sure what you mean by mucked up area?

So you are saying you cannot get a cleaning cycle to complete without the message?
Nozzle check, if any colors have missing lines
then do a head clean.
After the cleaning cycle run a nozzle check to see if the cleaning cleared your clog.

This does not address any of the black ink issues you may be having.
You are not aborting the cleaning cycle in mid stream somehow?

Sorry by "mucked up" I mean that in the four columns of different coloured check boxes there is one line where the entire row of check boxes in the first and fourth columns is missing (and a row either side of it has incomplete check boxes) and the second and third column has a row and bit (either side again) of much darker check boxes than the columns further up or down the test page.  Sorry this is hard to explain without a scanner to show it.  All that said - it is just one line (row) and maybe one more either side of it.  It then goes on to print the rest of the page with few problems.  I let the nozzle check run full cycle.  I will try cleaning it but I think I may have done that already with the Photo Black.

Yes I can't get a complete cycle without the message.  Though it doesn't seem to impact in any way of Matte Black printing.

[PhilipWatkins]

You seem to have a couple of issues. Some clogged nozzles which others have described as well as the issue in the subject line of switching Matte To Photo Black.
Having just spent $600 fixing that I'll talk about that one. I am assuming 3800 is the same as 3880 here.

If you do a nozzle check one of the biggest mistakes you can make is not realising if there aren't 8 patches of colour. If you count them up and there are only 7 then a colour is completely missing. That is usually the PK on the left hand side. That is a sure sign that the change over is not working or that the PK is completely empty, regardless of what the system status says. Check that and or weigh the cartridge.

Also you don't need a computer or any drivers to change from PK to MK. You can do it from the LCD display on the printer and see the progress or otherwise. If that is not working then it is the Ink Delivery System has failed.

I did actually do the switch over from MK to PK on the printer console (not by sending through a glossy print and having the software do it)  and it worked without problems.  I am worried that if it is going to cost $600 to fix whether I might be better off just using it for matte prints (which it still seems to do very well) and look to acquire a new printer.  Is the $600 to repair it worth it?

[PhilipWatkins]

The clean with PK after the nozzle check still produces a much similar result.

[dgberg]

This is what you should be seeing from your nozzle check.
Still not sure what is going on with your blacks.
I would keep printing with it but in my opinion it is not worth repairing.
When my 3800 quit I pulled the inks (All but 2 are usable) and purchased a 3880.
Not sure if you can find one since the P600/P800 came out.
With rebate you can get the P800 for around $850.

Just to clarify. I have refillable carts for my 3880 and can pull inks from any of my Epson K3 carts to fill the refillables.

[BobShaw]

I did actually do the switch over from MK to PK on the printer console (not by sending through a glossy print and having the software do it)  and it worked without problems.  I am worried that if it is going to cost $600 to fix whether I might be better off just using it for matte prints (which it still seems to do very well) and look to acquire a new printer.  Is the $600 to repair it worth it?

OK, then it is not the PK to MK switch over if it says it has changed over and you get 8 patterns on Nozzle check. In hindsight it was not worth fixing for me as apart from the $600 I lost about half of the ink.

[PhilipWatkins]

Yes I do get the full 8 colours on the nozzle check from the 'Print' button (magenta is a bit patchy but still mostly there).  What I was describing above was the output of the 'Auto' button.

Like Bob I live in Australia (Canberra) and I'm not sure whether Epson offer rebates in Australia ? 

[dgberg]

And that is one of your problems.
Patchy  or incomplete is no good. Just several missing lines can give you unsaturated images like you are getting.
If your cleanings cannot clear it up and your images are still coming out unsaturated then it may be replacement time if you have tried everything else.
About once a week I put several drops of cleaning fluid on the head pad to keep it moist.
Also we run humidifiers here at 45% for our 5 Epsons and our clogs have dropped by 50%.
Takes a little work but worth the effort.

[howardm]

Philip,  pls post a picture of the AUTO output showing all of the color blocks.

[BobShaw]

Philip, PM sent.

[PhilipWatkins]

Philip,  pls post a picture of the AUTO output showing all of the color blocks.

Picture attached .. note that I've done quite a few other nozzle checks on Auto and found that they don't produce the "line" at the top of the page ... its a bit hit and miss.