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Author Topic: Freedom of Panorama  (Read 14402 times)

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Freedom of Panorama
« on: April 08, 2016, 11:43:54 am »

An interesting overview of various copyright legislations around the world when it comes to buildings, interiors and art:

 

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Freedom of Panorama
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2016, 12:59:36 pm »

I feel that if someone puts up a structure that limits my enjoyment of a panorama, then I (and the rest of society) should be compensated for that loss. Why should they be able to fill up the sky in a manner that means I can't use it anymore?
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fdisilvestro

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Re: Freedom of Panorama
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2016, 01:12:44 pm »

Interesting and surprising about some countries (at least for me). Thanks for sharing

RSL

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Re: Freedom of Panorama
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2016, 02:44:13 pm »

Governments seem to become more and more asinine with age. The idea that you're not allowed to make a photograph of a building from a public space approaches utter asininity. What seems even more tragic to me is the fact that street photography in France -- which for all intents and purposes is the birthplace of street photography -- is now practically impossible. Thank Heaven the U.S. hasn't yet descended into that pit. In spite of the contents of that article, in the U.S. I'm still able legally to shoot anything I want to shoot with the exception of certain military or law enforcement activities as long as I'm in a public space.

With the kind of government Europe seems to have developed, it looks as if it's time for Europeans to start over.
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Rob C

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Re: Freedom of Panorama
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2016, 03:12:40 pm »

Governments seem to become more and more asinine with age. The idea that you're not allowed to make a photograph of a building from a public space approaches utter asininity. What seems even more tragic to me is the fact that street photography in France -- which for all intents and purposes is the birthplace of street photography -- is now practically impossible. Thank Heaven the U.S. hasn't yet descended into that pit. In spite of the contents of that article, in the U.S. I'm still able legally to shoot anything I want to shoot with the exception of certain military or law enforcement activities as long as I'm in a public space.

With the kind of government Europe seems to have developed, it looks as if it's time for Europeans to start over.

I think the problem's the other way around: with the kind of people many Europeans have become. Governments seem to reflect the wishes of the wussy majority that they hope will possibly elect them when it's voting time again.

What do you expect from a society that lives in a fantasy world of cellphone life and social media bullshit, tv heroes and junk food? I want to throw up every time I see them advertise food in a family "bucket" as they call it; do people not have any sense of personal outrage at being addressed like that, as akin to swine at the trough?

Rob C

RSL

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Re: Freedom of Panorama
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2016, 03:33:22 pm »

I can't disagree, Rob. But I always hope there are a few people not invested in "trigger warnings" and "safe space," and willing to fight to restore some kind of personal dignity and general sanity. Maybe it's too late. Maybe Europe is on its way to become part of the Caliphate. If so it'll be the end of trigger warnings and safe space. I see the same European mistake repeated over and over. I missed the first one: the blind and stupid march into WW I, but I was around for the second one: the blind and stupid march into WW II. Now I'm seeing the people falling in for the blind and stupid march into. . . what???

But the problem isn't confined to Europe. The U.S. is doing its best to fall in for the same kind of blind and stupid march toward disaster. My consolation is that I probably won't be around for the catastrophe.

Yes. People always seem to get the governments they deserve.
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petermfiore

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Re: Freedom of Panorama
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2016, 06:29:29 pm »

But the problem isn't confined to Europe. The U.S. is doing its best to fall in for the same kind of blind and stupid march toward disaster. My consolation is that I probably won't be around for the catastrophe.

Yes. People always seem to get the governments they deserve.

Ah, the cold sober facts...makes all else seem a trifle.

Peter

Colorado David

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Re: Freedom of Panorama
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2016, 08:10:21 pm »

There was no good reason to fight World War I and the Treaty of Versailles and the side agreements around it are the very reason we are up against the fight we have today. That does not excuse certain fanatical movements that are at work in today's world, there's plenty of blame for them, but World War II and the Cold War are results of the Treaty of Versailles.

Sorry.  Back to the Freedom of Panorama.

Rob C

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Re: Freedom of Panorama
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2016, 05:09:04 am »

If you consider the current hot pototo of Panama: in the UK there's a lot of media-inspired noise about PM Cameron and his relatively modest finances. The British media, press and tv, largely owned by octogenarian Australian Murdoch, who recently wed a Texan ex-leading model; ex-Stone wife; ex-etc.) started and continues a hunt for absolutely anything that can be used, rightly or simply by implication, to fan the fires of class hatred and envy. The funniest thing is to hear the tv people say something is perfectly legal, but, well, not "morally" correct (yep, that's tv talking: the bastion of every morality and higher ethic there ever was)... indeed, Cameron was rash enough to use that false yardstick himself on somebody else's back a while ago, but the people doing it today are fucking with the stability of a nation's government, not to mention its possible ramifications regarding the state of the wider Europe.

From the newspaper baron's perspective, you can discern revenge for his own closing-down of the newspaper that did so much to soil his reputation due to 'phone hacking journalism. After all, it led to him having to re-arrange temporarily his own family dynastic order, though son is now back in top chair. So billionaire fights mere millionaire. Hilarious is the sight of frantic and frenetic little woman with microphone pogoing to a crown of idiots waving Socialist Worker placards... credibility stops right there, I'm afraid, yet they don't see that; that might be just as well.

What a tragic, miserable little world of envious and useless people. No wonder it's bound to end in self-induced disaster: deserves little else, desìte the many better heads that will inevitably roll as unavoidable consequence.

I heard this morning that the Moon holds benefit for future space travel, because it can be mined for material to power steam-driven space journeys. Good idea: let mining render the Moon lighter, and our Earthly tides will change! I always suspected my terrace will one day be transformed into a mooring.

Incidentally, what happens to the subterranean holes that oil, coal, gas, all mineral mining creates? Will our seas amd lakes vanish within? Will entire countries sink into their own sinkholes? If we do surive, it will render every existing school atlas redundant. Do I see a new business opportunity for someone?

Rob C
« Last Edit: April 10, 2016, 05:15:22 am by Rob C »
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GrahamBy

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Re: Freedom of Panorama
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2016, 05:31:17 am »

Don't under-estimate the level of corruption in France: the politicians all have inexplicably luxurious lifestyles, all come out of the same school and have systematically shut down campaigns for transparency of their finances, we have miserably poor anti-tobacco legislation and education; there is the huge scandal of subsidizing diesel over petrol in order to save Peugeot, resulting in some of the most foully polluted air in Europe. Yes, partly this is because of of unrealistic fantasy about left-wing utopia, and there is a chicken and egg situation: an incredibly arrogant upper class who don't bother to hide their contempt for the poor, and a fantasist left that feeds fantasies about industry existing as a sort of extended charity. The massive mis-use of the state of emergency legislation after the 13 November attacks is just another example.

So... there is actually quite liberal legisaltion here about the right of artistic expression, and I have the right to take photos of whoever I like, assuming they are not doing something excessively embarrassing. Most people don't realise this...and citing the legislation will not help if someone wants to punch me in the face, but that is very rare. The sticking point is if I should want to make money from the resulting images. It's the same with monuments, where the government has acted to protect some corporate friends... hence the copyright on the lit (but not unlit) Tour Eiffel.
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Freedom of Panorama
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2016, 06:36:15 am »

I'm not sure I follow some of these arguments. It seems to me that the copyright/trademark limitations in public photography have more to do with corporate lobbying and big pocket litigation that anything else.
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GrahamBy

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Re: Freedom of Panorama
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2016, 06:20:09 pm »

Yep.
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RSL

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Re: Freedom of Panorama
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2016, 07:58:55 pm »

Oh those nasty corporations.
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jeremyrh

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Re: Freedom of Panorama
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2016, 04:02:55 am »

PM Cameron and his relatively modest finances.

Stopped reading here. Apparently our conceptions of what words such as "relatively modest" mean are so far apart as to render communication impossible.
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jeremyrh

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Re: Freedom of Panorama
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2016, 04:04:04 am »

With the kind of government Europe seems to have developed, it looks as if it's time for Europeans to start over.

Residents of Trump-land don't really get to make comments on other folks' political landscape.
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Rob C

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Re: Freedom of Panorama
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2016, 05:01:36 am »

Stopped reading here. Apparently our conceptions of what words such as "relatively modest" mean are so far apart as to render communication impossible.

Almost. Just different spectrum of realization of the broader reality.

Before I came to live here (Spain) I had no idea how poor I really was. A brief walk through the marina, which I do every day, not out of a love of masochism or simple pursuit of photographic subjects (which may be a manifestation of masochism), but for circulatory system problems, shows me more millions of pounds tied up in tiny spaces than I ever imagined existed outwith a bank... and there's a waiting list: costs you £ 23,000 to join the club, and then a subscription every year. Berths were once available to purchase on long-lease, but now these exchange hands for hundreds of thousands of pounds. Multiply that demand by all the full marinas everywhere along the Med coast, as well as in the Caribbean, the US coast etc. and you can hardly avoid the conclusion that there is a huge number of wealthy people in this world. Branding them all corrupt or charlatan does very little to make the rest of us, the poor or pretty poor seem wonderful. Rather does it make me think we screwed up the opportunities life presented to us.

Irony: when this club was being built, I was offered life membership for £ 240. I turned it down because I had realised I wasn't buying any boat: anything I could afford was too small to be of any earthly use to me. A ski boat is the last place in which you want to spend a day in the Med sunshine. Buying a berth, which I could have done, boat owner or not, would now be providing me with a decent pension. Instead, I thought I'd remain true to my job, and keep my pension hopes in photographic images. Idiot. Digital did for me exactly what it did for Kodak et al.

So don't let personal perspectives of what wealth means blind you to the greater reality out there. But of course, you'll have stopped reading, won't you? Which is a pity, because now you won't be able to tell me why the lower common denomination is supposedly holder of the moral high ground.

Ah well...

Rob C

P.S.

For those of you who have seen The Night Watchman: parts are shot up here in Puerto Pollensa in a place called La Fortaleza, a beautiful little peninsula on the northern edge of the town. It was built years ago by an Argentinian; taken over and ransacked by troops during the Civil War; once owned by an English guy who runs a waste company, and recently bought by another Brit, to the tune of €40,000.000. Yes, forty million euros, according to the Spanish press. You can find all this if you google The Night Watchman. So measuring others by one's own bank balance is pretty daft.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2016, 05:28:41 am by Rob C »
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Rob C

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Re: Freedom of Panorama
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2016, 05:05:28 am »

Residents of Trump-land don't really get to make comments on other folks' political landscape.

Oh yes they do, exactly as you feel able to call it Trump-land.

Goose, ganders etc.

Rob C

Zorki5

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Re: Freedom of Panorama
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2016, 09:51:31 am »

The funniest thing is to hear the tv people say something is perfectly legal, but, well, not "morally" correct (yep, that's tv talking: the bastion of every morality and higher ethic there ever was)...

Funny indeed: it is perfectly legal to stop one from talking certain type of images, and yet that person calls is not correct etc...

Or what would you say? That that situation is of course completely different? Yeah, right.

It is ridiculous not everyone shares your views...

P.S. I'm not saying Cameron is wrong with anything, I have no opinion on that. If pressed, I might even say he didn't do anything wrong indeed, legally or morally. Just admiring your way of thinking.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Freedom of Panorama
« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2016, 10:18:13 am »

Residents of Trump-land don't really get to make comments on other folks' political landscape.

Those other falks have that landscape thanks to residents of Trump-land ...otherwise they would have had a landschaft.

RSL

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Re: Freedom of Panorama
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2016, 10:33:05 am »

Residents of Trump-land don't really get to make comments on other folks' political landscape.

Well then, next time Europe's political configuration allows itself to be invaded we'll just wave.
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