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Author Topic: H5DC wifi vs. XF-IQ350C  (Read 15144 times)

eronald

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Re: H5DC wifi vs. XF-IQ350C
« Reply #40 on: April 04, 2016, 11:54:07 pm »

Good is subjective. Some people like crisp punchy grain and others like flat fuzzy detail. When you buy a Mac, it works but not always the way you want it to. That's why you've got system preferences.

Yes, different people want different things. Which is why it is so hard to solve the "really good defaults" problem. Canon have Picture Styles as their solution. With video the defaults are even more critical as grading is time consumimg.

Edmund
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aztwang

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Re: H5DC wifi vs. XF-IQ350C
« Reply #41 on: April 05, 2016, 12:20:58 am »

Everyone is overlooking the biggest bit in the article:
"But, I will also say this, I only had one afternoon with the Phase One XF and the IQ350 back and I had five days to try out the Hasselblad H5D 50c WiFi before deciding to purchasing that system."

It takes a few days of use to really get comfortable with a system, you have to to shoot, look at files, shoot more, look at more files...

-Joe

I did not see that. Though the article is well written and informative, why waste your time writing such a detailed review with many negative or "con" type comments on the XF when you review it for 3-4 hours?!..REALLY! ??.... I'm dis-appointed in Michaels choice to review it this way.  I own the XF and am still fine tuning my XF methodology. Not a fair review..PERIOD!
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DrakeJ

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Re: H5DC wifi vs. XF-IQ350C
« Reply #42 on: April 05, 2016, 04:25:30 am »

Live view is great for architecture and static objects.  I never use it when photographing people who move.  It takes three to five seconds to set the focus trim.  You don't have to do for every frame only if you change your set-up. 

I apologize in advance for any blunt language.  It you are locked off on a tripod, and the auto focus center is aimed at the breast area of a model, the area of crisp focus will be the on the chest.  By using focus trim and adding a negative amount accordingly you can reduce the front focus and move the crisp, dead on area of sharpness to the models/subject's eyes. 

I have attached a few iPhone snaps of the XF menu.  It's not like digging for gold.  You are simply pressing the silver bar twice and scrolling a dial on the camera near your thumb. I hope this helps.

So, the procedure is as following:

1. Place the model in a proper position
2. Place your XF on a tripod, compose your shot
3. Ask the model to do a pose
4. Take a shot with autofocus on breast area
5. Go into the XF menu, do a focus trim
6. Take a shot and repeat 5 until focus is correct on the subjects face
7. Get the right expression

To me that sounds a bit cumbersome compared to Hasselblad's true focus to be honest.

eronald

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Re: H5DC wifi vs. XF-IQ350C
« Reply #43 on: April 05, 2016, 07:45:52 am »

So, the procedure is as following:

1. Place the model in a proper position
2. Place your XF on a tripod, compose your shot
3. Ask the model to do a pose
4. Take a shot with autofocus on breast area
5. Go into the XF menu, do a focus trim
6. Take a shot elop to land repeat 5 until focus is correct on the subjects face
7. Get the right expression

To me that sounds a bit cumbersome compared to Hasselblad's true focus to be honest.

It *is* interesting to see what workflows other people employ. I never enjoyed using a tripod for people shots, but I guess for most studio photographers in film days a tripod setup was often obligatory, and those who learnt then will carry that over to now.

Hasselblad's True Focus doesn't work on a tripod of course - which may be one reason why Phase saw no reason to implement something similar for their own base of tethered studio shooters, as Phase is now the tethered solution of choice.

Edmund
« Last Edit: April 05, 2016, 07:49:49 am by eronald »
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DrakeJ

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Re: H5DC wifi vs. XF-IQ350C
« Reply #44 on: April 05, 2016, 08:22:59 am »

It *is* interesting to see what workflows other people employ. I never enjoyed using a tripod for people shots, but I guess for most studio photographers in film days a tripod setup was often obligatory, and those who learnt then will carry that over to now.

Hasselblad's True Focus doesn't work on a tripod of course - which may be one reason why Phase saw no reason to implement something similar for their own base of tethered studio shooters, as Phase is now the tethered solution of choice.

Edmund

I'm curious, why would Hasselblad's True Focus not work on a tripod? I've seen numerous examples, including an instruction video on youtube from Karl Taylor where he demonstrates True Focus - on a tripod.

Jeffery Salter

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Re: H5DC wifi vs. XF-IQ350C
« Reply #45 on: April 05, 2016, 08:23:49 am »

So, the procedure is as following:

1. Place the model in a proper position
2. Place your XF on a tripod, compose your shot
3. Ask the model to do a pose
4. Take a shot with autofocus on breast area
5. Go into the XF menu, do a focus trim
6. Take a shot and repeat 5 until focus is correct on the subjects face
7. Get the right expression

To me that sounds a bit cumbersome compared to Hasselblad's true focus to be honest.

Hi Drake.  It only sounds cumbersome.  As I said mentioned earlier.  This works well when you have the camera "locked" down on the tripod.

I suggest you meet up with a friend who owns the XF and simply give it a try.  Words can only go so far.

Just to be clear, you only set the focus trim once.  I don't know what type of photography that you do, but this technique works well for me because I shoot tethered and can see immediately what the image looks like.

This is one of many techniques to help a photographer get the picture he wants.  When I'm not on a tripod, I simply focus and recompose then snap (even at f2.8 ) with excellent results.  However other photographers may not be able to do this well.

I come from a photojournalism background where my camera of choice was the LIECA M4, M4P and M6.  They are rangefinder cameras without any fancy focus assist aids.  You bring the camera to your eye and recompose and snap.  Great photography has been done since the advent of photography.

I hope this helps.  Thank you.
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jduncan

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Re: H5DC wifi vs. XF-IQ350C
« Reply #46 on: April 05, 2016, 10:05:42 am »

It *is* interesting to see what workflows other people employ. I never enjoyed using a tripod for people shots, but I guess for most studio photographers in film days a tripod setup was often obligatory, and those who learnt then will carry that over to now.

Hasselblad's True Focus doesn't work on a tripod of course - which may be one reason why Phase saw no reason to implement something similar for their own base of tethered studio shooters, as Phase is now the tethered solution of choice.

Edmund

Hi,

What do you mean with that "true focus does not work on a tripod?" 
It does, as far as I can tell, in fact that warranty that the distance from the subject will not change.
Hasselblad even recommend to test Truefocus on a tripod before sending it for repair (TF needs training, to keep the distance equal):

http://static.hasselblad.com/2015/02/using-true-focus.pdf

Could you elaborate ?

Best regards,
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eronald

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Re: H5DC wifi vs. XF-IQ350C
« Reply #47 on: April 05, 2016, 11:08:37 am »

Hi,

What do you mean with that "true focus does not work on a tripod?" 
It does, as far as I can tell, in fact that warranty that the distance from the subject will not change.
Hasselblad even recommend to test Truefocus on a tripod before sending it for repair (TF needs training, to keep the distance equal):

http://static.hasselblad.com/2015/02/using-true-focus.pdf

Could you elaborate ?

Best regards,


Apologies. I meant it is much less useful on a tripod because in model shooting usually one doesn't rotate the camera around a lot once one has the tripod set up. Maybe I'm wrong about that - *I* don't move the camera on tripod a lot when I use a tripod.

Edmund
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michaelclark

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Re: H5DC wifi vs. XF-IQ350C
« Reply #48 on: April 05, 2016, 12:41:36 pm »

Jeffrey -

I will update the article on the flash sync speeds with the new blue line lenses - looks like the rep told me some bad info. Thank you for that info.

On the focusing, I will also update the article with your feed back. There are still a lot of folks that seem to have had issues but I will note that some find the AF to be excellent.

Michael is an accomplished action/adventure photographer.  However his review of the XF350 is inaccurate.   I would suggest partnering up with a photographer who shoots with the XF system on a regular basis.  Not sure how helpful to make assertions when you have limited experience with a camera system.  I would gladly rent an IQ350 and meet Michael to do some photography.  He could give me some pointers of the actual use of Hasselblad system.  I have only shoot with the H1/H2 and not the latest models.

Upon a quick reading of Michael’s blog I noticed several statements which are not factual.

The article asserts that the Auto-focus on the XF is poor.  This is not true.
The article makes some incorrect remarks about LS glass and flash syncing.
His opinions about the Reliability based upon “Almost everyone has to send in their XF for service” are disingenuous and could greatly benefit from fact checking.


AUTO FOCUS

I have shot over 10,000 frames with my XF and have a very high percentage of sharp images.  Recently I shot three magazine covers for a national sports magazine.  The photo editors were very happy with the take.  No problems with focus on the XF.

This is how I do it.

In my long term experience in photography I have found that the majority of the time when a photographer has a lot of out of focus images it's due to operator issues and poor camera technique.  Here’s just a few examples.


1.  Out of focus VS camera shake/motion Blur.   It's vital to remember when handholding any camera to use at twice the focus length of the lens as a shutter speed.  This is especially true when shooting on a MFD camera. 

2.  Diopter adjustment.   On the view finder of the XF is a Diopter adjustment.  A)  Focus on an object.  B) While looking through the viewfinder - turn the dial until the image is crisp.

3.  Holding the camera.   The elbows should be in. One hand cups underneath the lens while the other hand holds the camera.  When you place your (non-shutter) hand over the lens it's easy to actually push the lens down a bit while shooting causing a bit of motion blur.

4.  Focus assist light.  Go into the menu of the XF and you can adjust the brightness to help the camera/lens snap into focus.

5.  Focus trim.  Is not only for dialing in the sweet spot of a lens.  The most important use of focus trimming is when your camera in lock into place and you chose not to focus and recompose.  For example when shooting a vertical magazine cover featuring  three quarter photograph of a woman wearing a swimsuit.  You can focus on her midriff area and simply apply a minus/negative amount of focus trim.  This reduces the focus and brings the focus the eyes.

This also comes into play when you have a background that is extremely contrasty or backlighted and the auto focus has the tendency to back focus leaving the foreground subject blurry, simple dial in a positive amount of focus trim.  It’s pretty straightforward to use.

SCHNEIDER KREUZNACH 35mm LS f/3.5

 Yes it does sync at 1/1600 of a second.  I own this lens.  The strobe system I use is Profoto combined with the Profoto Air Sync remote. 

I also shoot with an LS 28, LS 55, LS 110, LS150 and they all sync at 1/1600 of second with Profoto Air Sync remote on the Profoto packs.

The LS 40-80 Zoom syncs at about 1/800 to 1/1000 with Profoto air sync.


RELIABILITY

(In the blog it says everyone who has a Phase One system has to send it in for repair?)

This is not true.

I don’t climb mountains or jump out of planes.  Just do advertising and editorial photography.  My Phase digital back has about XX,XXX frames on it.  I’m a bit shy to say how many…..it has never been to Denmark for service.  My XF has as mentioned about 10,000 on the shutter.  Never been in for service.  My Phase One system lives in a Gura Gear backpack (the 34L) I wish I could say that I wrap my gear in bubble wrap, most readers of the forum would say Jeff please please put a little protection around your gear……

Here is a picture of my XF frame counter.


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Theodoros

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Re: H5DC wifi vs. XF-IQ350C
« Reply #49 on: April 05, 2016, 12:52:16 pm »

Don't know what the difference between the two systems is, nor I think that any difference between them is significant for one to decide (no matter how many try to convince people that there is an important difference...) between the two. My two cents go with the price difference between the two systems and it does so (I believe) with the rest of the population in this planet... Heck..., even if they where at close price the Hasselblad system is much more recognisable as it carries a "name history" that P1 will never achieve...
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Jeffery Salter

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Re: H5DC wifi vs. XF-IQ350C
« Reply #50 on: April 05, 2016, 02:10:29 pm »

Jeffrey -

I will update the article on the flash sync speeds with the new blue line lenses - looks like the rep told me some bad info. Thank you for that info.

On the focusing, I will also update the article with your feed back. There are still a lot of folks that seem to have had issues but I will note that some find the AF to be excellent.

Thank you Michael

I really appreciate your response.  Just to be clear my comments pertain to your "review".  Your photography is outstanding.  I looking forward to seeing how your style changes with the new Hassy and what new images you create.

Jeffery

« Last Edit: April 05, 2016, 03:02:59 pm by Jeffery Salter »
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michaelclark

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Re: H5DC wifi vs. XF-IQ350C
« Reply #51 on: April 05, 2016, 02:49:28 pm »

Jeffrey -

You are welcome. Thank you for the feedback. I will update that review right now. If I had had a better experience with the Phase One I probably would own one of those right now instead of a Hassey. I tried to make the review as honest and unbiased as possible and I gave Hasselblad some huge digs as well in that review.


Thank you Michael

I really appreciate your response.  Just to be clear my comments are pertain to your "review".  Your photography is outstanding.  I looking forward to seeing how your style changes with the new Hassy and what new images you create.

Jeffery
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NickT

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Re: H5DC wifi vs. XF-IQ350C
« Reply #52 on: April 05, 2016, 06:03:37 pm »


Apologies. I meant it is much less useful on a tripod because in model shooting usually one doesn't rotate the camera around a lot once one has the tripod set up. Maybe I'm wrong about that - *I* don't move the camera on tripod a lot when I use a tripod.

Edmund

I use True Focus on the tripod *all* the time. Works really well.
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eronald

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Re: H5DC wifi vs. XF-IQ350C
« Reply #53 on: April 05, 2016, 08:03:34 pm »

Michael,

 I worked for 20 years as a journo, writing both in french and in english. I used to be paid as a columnist to do pro photo stuff reviews for Ziff Davis. I am a National Union of Journalists member. That doesn't mean I know everything about photography, but I do know what counts as a review.

 By modern web standards, your review is a review. It is not a "review" as some here contend. You didn't read a press release, you looked at the products, tried them out, and gave your personal opinion.

 There is no reason you should feel obligated to update *your* review with anyone else's later input. If you elect to do so, it is correct and conventional to add such material in a box, distinctively separated from the original text, with a clear indication that the new material is an addendum, and does not reflect your own observations.

 When you write, the aggregate quality of your own opinions and writing form your own brand. I once had an email exchange about some fractal compression software with Michael Reichmann, the original founder of this site. He said it was pretty much useless, I'd used it, and thought it was pretty useful for enlarging box shots with printed lettering and the like. As I remember, he replied "I don't do box shots, I'm a landscape photographer". Even though I can be quite argumentative :), I shut up — he was right. His working style, his observations, his opinion, his review.

Edmund



Jeffrey -

I will update the article on the flash sync speeds with the new blue line lenses - looks like the rep told me some bad info. Thank you for that info.

On the focusing, I will also update the article with your feed back. There are still a lot of folks that seem to have had issues but I will note that some find the AF to be excellent.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2016, 08:35:52 pm by eronald »
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Jeffery Salter

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Re: H5DC wifi vs. XF-IQ350C
« Reply #54 on: April 05, 2016, 09:20:15 pm »

Michael,

 There is no reason you should feel obligated to update *your* review with anyone else's later input. If you elect to do so, it is correct and conventional to add such material in a box, distinctively separated from the original text, with a clear indication that the new material is an addendum, and does not reflect your own observations.

Edmund

Me and Michael just had an honest and open exchange of good energy. But for some dark reason you choose to see things in a negative point of view.  That's really sad.  When I put "review" in quotes I meant it to only as a reference that I was not questioning his art.  In a sense I gave my review of his review.  He's a hardworking photographer trying to make a living in a world that doesn't value "print" as much as it should we are both as are many of our colleagues swimming against the same tide. The last Hasselblad equipment I owned was the H1/H2 platform.  I don't have the experience with the latest Hassy offerings so therefore I would never feel qualified to write a review based upon a one day test.  My approach would have been to call a notable Hassy user and ask them to shoot alongside me with my PHASE ONE system.  Michael choose a different path.

Now regarding your simply rude and uncalled for introjection....

As my fifth grade daughter would say.  This is an "A" "B" conversation so kindly "C" yourself out of it.

Thank you.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2016, 09:34:14 pm by Jeffery Salter »
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aztwang

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Re: H5DC wifi vs. XF-IQ350C
« Reply #55 on: April 05, 2016, 09:23:41 pm »

Michael,

 I worked for 20 years as a journo, writing both in french and in english. I used to be paid as a columnist to do pro photo stuff reviews for Ziff Davis. I am a National Union of Journalists member. That doesn't mean I know everything about photography, but I do know what counts as a review.

 By modern web standards, your review is a review. It is not a "review" as some here contend. You didn't read a press release, you looked at the products, tried them out, and gave your personal opinion.

 There is no reason you should feel obligated to update *your* review with anyone else's later input. If you elect to do so, it is correct and conventional to add such material in a box, distinctively separated from the original text, with a clear indication that the new material is an addendum, and does not reflect your own observations.

 When you write, the aggregate quality of your own opinions and writing form your own brand. I once had an email exchange about some fractal compression software with Michael Reichmann, the original founder of this site. He said it was pretty much useless, I'd used it, and thought it was pretty useful for enlarging box shots with printed lettering and the like. As I remember, he replied "I don't do box shots, I'm a landscape photographer". Even though I can be quite argumentative :), I shut up — he was right. His working style, his observations, his opinion, his review.

Edmund

Edmund,

I agree it's a read, a review...HMMM probably not. A review is a summation of opinions and facts based on real like findings and testing. A review that is meant to be a comparison review is all the above, comparing all the different facets of each item and being reviewed on an even playing field. Do you really, REALLY think that 4 hours behind an XF is going to provide ample and accurate findings on a camera of this sort??..then to compare with a body that you've tested for what...4-5 days?? C'mon really? That would be like taking a Ferrari around the block for a review or even worse a comparison.,,,FWIW....Cheers
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Re: H5DC wifi vs. XF-IQ350C
« Reply #56 on: April 05, 2016, 09:57:49 pm »

Edmund,

I agree it's a read, a review...HMMM probably not. A review is a summation of opinions and facts based on real like findings and testing. A review that is meant to be a comparison review is all the above, comparing all the different facets of each item and being reviewed on an even playing field. Do you really, REALLY think that 4 hours behind an XF is going to provide ample and accurate findings on a camera of this sort??..then to compare with a body that you've tested for what...4-5 days?? C'mon really? That would be like taking a Ferrari around the block for a review or even worse a comparison.,,,FWIW....Cheers

I myself tested the H5D-50c against the XF a couple of months ago. As it happens I was also in a similar situation where I had the H5 for about 2 weeks and the XF for 24 hours. However the interesting thing was that in the 2 weeks that I had the H5 I must have in total used it for say 5 hours, the rest of the time it sat. When i got hold of the XF I pretty much tested it non stop for probably the same time. So I disagree with aztwang that one can make a good assessment of a camera's abilities even by having it for several hours. End of the day if the camera can do what you want it to then all good, If it fails to, then there is no reason to look for excuses :p (and I mean excuses in the politest manner)

Regards
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eronald

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Re: H5DC wifi vs. XF-IQ350C
« Reply #57 on: April 05, 2016, 10:00:24 pm »

Edmund,

I agree it's a read, a review...HMMM probably not. A review is a summation of opinions and facts based on real like findings and testing. A review that is meant to be a comparison review is all the above, comparing all the different facets of each item and being reviewed on an even playing field. Do you really, REALLY think that 4 hours behind an XF is going to provide ample and accurate findings on a camera of this sort??..then to compare with a body that you've tested for what...4-5 days?? C'mon really? That would be like taking a Ferrari around the block for a review or even worse a comparison.,,,FWIW....Cheers

Here is what Michael says about XF focus, and it explains why some people here are going postal, and also explains why he bought a Hassy:

"When I tested out the Phase One XF, I got only 7 images out 200 in focus using that camera’s Honeybee autofocus system. It wasn’t as if all of those 193 other images were way out of focus, but they weren’t critically sharp where I intended for the focus to be."

Yes, journalists take a Ferrari on a test drive for a few hours and get paid to post their impressions.

I wrote a lot of paid reviews of computer equipment that was in my hands for only a few hours -during which I often ripped it to pieces, photographed it and reassembled-  and the editors who paid me were always almost always happy with the content, provided the copy was turned in on time.

You may hold the opinion that Michael's text does not convey all the facts as you would see them after a prolonged and expert inspection of the equipment, but it is still a review.

And btw, I think Michael was looking for a camera, he approached the sales organisations of both companies like any buyer, and was given the standard treatment - why should he base his published opinions on anything more? At least he has $20K worth of skin in the game, which is more than most people who publish stuff in magazines .. or web sites.

Edmund
« Last Edit: April 05, 2016, 10:37:55 pm by eronald »
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sgilbert

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Re: H5DC wifi vs. XF-IQ350C
« Reply #58 on: April 05, 2016, 10:47:28 pm »

Good point, ER.  There's no reason to correct errors in a published review.

It's so much more fun to be a fucking troll.
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eronald

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Re: H5DC wifi vs. XF-IQ350C
« Reply #59 on: April 05, 2016, 11:06:33 pm »

Good point, ER.  There's no reason to correct errors in a published review.

It's so much more fun to be a fucking troll.

Nobody is stopping you from listing his "errors".  Let's see: I wanted to buy a Ferrari, the dealer lent me one for a couple of days, next day it wouldn't start". That's not an error, that's an unhappy —and probably unusual— experience. Someone gets that, no wonder they choose Lambo instead :)

And yes, thank you, at my age (60) each new copulatory event is a rare and unexpected miracle, I certainly hope I won't turn into a normal troll too soon :)

Edmund
« Last Edit: April 05, 2016, 11:51:12 pm by eronald »
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