Topic: ipf5000 (Read 435755 times)

David White · « **Reply #280 on:** August 30, 2006, 08:59:15 pm »

Looking at the canned profiles from Canon for the IPF5000 with ColorThink 2.2, it says the color space is RGB.

tbonanno · « **Reply #281 on:** August 30, 2006, 09:04:54 pm »

Quote

Looking at the canned profiles from Canon for the IPF5000 with ColorThink 2.2, it says the color space is RGB.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=74999\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks David .. I sure thought it would be RGB, but after my profiling attempts, I was beginning to wonder..

Mark D Segal · « **Reply #282 on:** August 30, 2006, 10:17:31 pm »

Quote

It's way beyond OT at this point.

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=74996\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

It wasn't OT and got a civil answer that was useful to the person who asked the question. It also helps me to have that confirmed - possibly for future reference, in case after all is said and done I end-up buying one of these beasts.

JeffKohn · « **Reply #283 on:** August 31, 2006, 01:53:16 am »

Quote

Let us assume the printer is an RGB device

It is, in the sense that the print drivers (both 8-bit and 16-bit plugin) are RGB. The translation of the RGB values into actual inks happens in the driver.

Quote

it would appear that there is confidence in the profile when used with the standard driver and a lack of knowledge at source about what happens when the profile is used with the 16 bit Photoshop plug-in. So that's where this issue stands - too bad in a way because the 16 bit plug-in is supposed to be a key feature of this printer.

Re-read the email reply. Specifically this statement:

Quote

From what I've heard a custom profile works best when used within the 16-bit driver, rather than in the Photoshop print with preview dialog.

So I'm not sure why you think there's a question about whether profiles can be used with the 16-bit plugin. Read any of the reviews of the IPF5000 that cover the plug-in and you'll see that full ICM support is provided, including the ability to disable print-driver color management and use canned or custom profiles at the application level. Mr Reichmann's own review covers these details, as well as stating that he was able to create profiles for both the 8-bit and 16-bit print drivers.

Mark D Segal · « **Reply #284 on:** August 31, 2006, 09:01:09 am »

Quote

So I'm not sure why you think there's a question about whether profiles can be used with the 16-bit plugin. Read any of the reviews of the IPF5000 that cover the plug-in and you'll see that full ICM support is provided, including the ability to disable print-driver color management and use canned or custom profiles at the application level. Mr Reichmann's own review covers these details, as well as stating that he was able to create profiles for both the 8-bit and 16-bit print drivers.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=75024\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I have no doubt one can generate and select profiles to be used with the 16-bit plug-in. I've seen it done. If there is any issue at all, it is about what the profile is actually doing. Go back to post 272, where Chromix (not X-Rite) tells Martin:

<<The 16-bit driver works differently than other drivers - as a Photoshop plug in. From what I've heard a custom profile works best when used within the 16-bit driver, rather than in the Photoshop print with preview dialog. I don't know yet whether this device is considered an RGB or a CMYK device. It is most likely RGB. I believe your Pulse colorelite is the standard version which does not do CMYK so this is a consideration.

<<This is such a new printer that we haven't had a chance to get our hand on one, so I wish I could tell you more.>>

When I see phrases like "from what I've heard", "it is most likely", and "this is such a new printer that we haven't had a chance to get our hands on one...." it tells me that there is uncertainty in the mind of the writer.

Perhaps that uncertainty is just an excess of caution in this case, because we know it is an RGB device. We also know that other participants in this discussion have reported good results making and using their own profiles, but those reports weren't based on the use of MonacoGamut software.

All said and done, Jeff, I agree with you - unless I heear convincingly otherwise - I don't see any reason why such a profiling package shouldn't work just as well for any of these high-end RGB printers regardless of how many inks they use. That is where the logic takes one, but of course undrlying logic are technical details and the devil is often in those details.

Cheers.

danamr · « **Reply #285 on:** August 31, 2006, 12:37:03 pm »

Dragging this off the profile issue, and on to a more general printer use, has anyone seen documentation on what the Special 1-5 paper settings on the printer are doing? They can make a significant difference in profile shape, and I cannot find anything that really says what each is intended for.
Dana Rasmussen
Seattle, WA

JeffKohn · « **Reply #286 on:** August 31, 2006, 12:42:36 pm »

Quote

Dragging this off the profile issue, and on to a more general printer use, has anyone seen documentation on what the Special 1-5 paper settings on the printer are doing? They can make a significant difference in profile shape, and I cannot find anything that really says what each is intended for.
Dana Rasmussen
Seattle, WA
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=75059\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

There was an indication that higher numbers set down more ink by at least one 5000 user (see post #94 by Wayne Fox). What kind of differences are you seeing in the profiles, is it just a difference of gamut size or do certain color ranges seem to be more affected?

Mark D Segal · « **Reply #287 on:** August 31, 2006, 01:53:36 pm »

As I continue my "wait and see" approach to whether or not I should buy this printer, it is exactly this kind of thing that has turned me off so far. I admire and appreciate you guys who are prepared to put the time and effort into experimentation, fishing around for answers that should be easily and directly accessible in the instruction material provided with the printer. I looked yet again through that material, which I happen to have, and couldn't find it. I hope Canon is reading these various website discussion threads, because it should be very embarassing to them that technically savvy people like yourselves need to fish around the internet for elementary instruction that Canon itself should be providing with a machine in this class. One hopes this is one of the issues they are attending to as the competition heats-up.

colorworks · « **Reply #288 on:** August 31, 2006, 02:04:07 pm »

Quote

The software overrides the printer presets. The warnings give you information that something has changed from what you set in the printer so you can do something about it if you choose to. They can be turned off in the printer if you want.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=66203\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Could you tell me how the warning messages can be turned off, I did not think this possible.

Thx,

Troy

David White · « **Reply #289 on:** August 31, 2006, 02:30:33 pm »

Quote

Could you tell me how the warning messages can be turned off, I did not think this possible.

Thx,

Troy
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=75075\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Not sure if this these are the warning messages you were referring to, but on the printer, select Menu, System Setup, Warning, set Ignore Mismatch - ON.

martinmitch · « **Reply #290 on:** August 31, 2006, 03:27:40 pm »

Quote

Dragging this off the profile issue, and on to a more general printer use, has anyone seen documentation on what the Special 1-5 paper settings on the printer are doing? They can make a significant difference in profile shape, and I cannot find anything that really says what each is intended for.
Dana Rasmussen
Seattle, WA
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=75059\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I experimented with profiles for Fotospeed matt duo in settings 1-5,some weeks ago using Print fix pro and setting 1 produced a print using less ink than setting 5. One was thin and washy looking five fuller colour but not heavy colour if using canon profile premium matt highest but I do artwork not photography.

martinmitch

martinmitch · « **Reply #291 on:** August 31, 2006, 03:34:41 pm »

Hello.
Been offline all-day setting up new Raid hard drive configuration.

e-mailed X-Rite again early this morning
MarkDS I am communicating with X-Rite not Chromix managed to get through last night.

Here is second communication :-

Hi Martin,

You asked “A general question to clarify a previos e-mail. In the user guide for the Pulse ColorElite section 9-Viewing Gamuts it says Monaco GamutWorks allows users to: plot and display the color gamut of any RGB,CMYK,5-8 color ICC-complaint profile,or RGB/CMYK image file [BMP ,JPEG,PNG,or TIFF] in two or three dimensions. The Question-----: the Canon iPF5000 has a twelve color inkset so can this printer be used with the Monaco GamutWorks?”

I assume you are still creating RGB or CMYK profiles for this device. If you are using the printer connected to the computer then use should be creating RGB profiles because the information the printer receives is still technically RGB. If you are connected via a RIP then the information will probably be CMYK meaning the profile will be CMYK. It only really tends to be printing presses with CMYK inks plus special colours that require 5-8 colour profiling.

I am not familiar with this particular printer but if the above is the case then yes gamutworks will have no problem displaying your profiles.

Best Regards

David Stewart
Applications Specialist
Printing, Graphic Arts & Digital Imaging

x-rite Ltd
The Acumen Centre
First Avenue
Poynton, Cheshire
SK12 1FJ
+44 (0)1625 871100 (Office)
+44 (0)7714 521124(Mobile)

Martinmich

martinmitch · « **Reply #292 on:** August 31, 2006, 03:38:40 pm »

Hello,

Just found a third e-mail this one is from Chromix:-

These profiles are not strickly speaking "from" the Canon printer. They are actually made "for" the Canon printer, by a separate piece of software like a Monaco profiler for example. Therefore, if the profiles are ICC-compliant, then Monaco GamutWorks should be able to handle them.

GamutWorks features the ability of "evaluating and graphing ICC-compliant profiles."

Pat Herold
herold@chromix.com
206.985-6837 ext #6

On Aug 30, 2006, at 3:42 PM, martin mitchell wrote:

Hello Pat ,
The second question concerning the Monaco GamutWorks still troubles me could you enlighten me - maybe.

There has been a lot of discussion concerning profiling and the Canon iPF5000 on Luminous Landscape website at :-Pages 11 to 14 are most interesting.

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....ic=10914&st=220

Thanks for your help

Martin Mitchell

martinmitch

Mark D Segal · « **Reply #293 on:** August 31, 2006, 04:32:42 pm »

Good work Martin - I think it's established now that this is indeed an RGB device (unless one uses it with a CMYK RIP) and Pulse Elite w. GamutWorks should give reliable profiles. All very good news. It seems to me that perhaps the key to success in profiling this printer will be to note carefully ALL the various settings one uses for creating the profile and being sure to replicate them EXACTLY when making prints. Also seems to suggest testing various settings is unavoidable to see how difrerent ones perform with different papers. To some extent this is the case for any printer - less so if one is using the printer manufacturers' own papers - decreasingly the case these days with the profusion of really interesting third party media to have hit the market over the past months.

David White · « **Reply #294 on:** August 31, 2006, 04:56:27 pm »

Quote

Good work Martin - I think it's established now that this is indeed an RGB device (unless one uses it with a CMYK RIP) and Pulse Elite w. GamutWorks should give reliable profiles. All very good news. It seems to me that perhaps the key to success in profiling this printer will be to note carefully ALL the various settings one uses for creating the profile and being sure to replicate them EXACTLY when making prints. Also seems to suggest testing various settings is unavoidable to see how difrerent ones perform with different papers. To some extent this is the case for any printer - less so if one is using the printer manufacturers' own papers - decreasingly the case these days with the profusion of really interesting third party media to have hit the market over the past months.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=75107\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

It's pretty much like profiling any printer. Select the paper, paper source, resolution and turn off all printer color management in the printer driver and print the chart. After the profile is generated printing is pretty similiar to other printers. Select the output profile either in PS for the 8-bit driver or select the profile in the 16-bit driver, select the paper, resolution and paper source, make sure color management is turned off in the printer driver and let it print. Seems like people are perhaps over-thinking the process and making it more complicated than it needs to be.

Mark D Segal · « **Reply #295 on:** August 31, 2006, 05:02:00 pm »

Quote

It's pretty much like profiling any printer. Select the paper, paper source, resolution and turn off all printer color management in the printer driver and print the chart. After the profile is generated printing is pretty similiar to other printers. Select the output profile either in PS for the 8-bit driver or select the profile in the 16-bit driver, select the paper, resolution and paper source, make sure color management is turned off in the printer driver and let it print. Seems like people are perhaps over-thinking the process and making it more complicated than it needs to be.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=75118\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

David - yes and no. ANY printer settings that can affect how the printer lays down ink need to be verified and kept the same for both making and using the profile, otherwise the profile will not necessarily perform as intended. You've mentioned the most usual culprits, but that is not the whole story. I'm not saying it's horrendously complicated - just that one needs to be mindful of all that can matter.

David White · « **Reply #296 on:** August 31, 2006, 05:12:48 pm »

Quote

David - yes and no. ANY printer settings that can affect how the printer lays down ink need to be verified and kept the same for both making and using the profile, otherwise the profile will not necessarily perform as intended. You've mentioned the most usual culprits, but that is not the whole story. I'm not saying it's horrendously complicated - just that one needs to be mindful of all that can matter.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=75119\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Mark,

Again, yes and no. The paper settings are a bit confusing at first. I generally print on luster-type papers and most papers recommend the Canon Photo Paper Semi-Gloss for printing on a luster surface. This has worked out pretty well for me and I have seen no need to play with the Special 1-5 paper types.

Looking at the printout of the settings the printer has for the various paper types, I didn't see anything different between them other than using the Photo or Matte black inks. I'm sure there are some settings somewhere that determine how much ink is laid down, but I haven't found them yet. But for my needs at this time it is probably irrelevant since I have a combination that seems to be working with good results. Others may have to experiment with different media types until they find the best for the paper that they are using.

Canon certainly needs to fix the documentation and the IPF 5000 Media Configuration Tool really needs to be fixed. At this time it seems to do nothing useful. It seems that I should be able to add a paper type using it but nothing happens. All it does now is load a paper setting file to the printer and doesn't give you the ability to change that file.

David White · « **Reply #297 on:** August 31, 2006, 05:34:33 pm »

Just noticed that on the UK site, the GARO Status Monitor has been updated to V2.71. The US site still appears to have V2.5. I downloaded the new version from the UK and it works OK. There is no log of changes from the previous version. It looks the same, but probably has some under the hood bug fixes.

Mark D Segal · « **Reply #298 on:** August 31, 2006, 06:54:11 pm »

David,

The dysfunctiuonality of the media configuration tool has been known very soon after the printer was released and tested. It is simply amazing that Canon hasn't fixed this yet. Maybe they'll issue a fix discretely like perhaps they've done with the status monitor. As I said, cudos to you guys, but I'm biding my time while I watch developments with close interest.

The one saving grace is that it does make very good prints without having to flush ink when changing media. That is worth a whole lot, but is a distinct Epson issue that Epson will have to fix if they want to preserve any kind of market share going forward.

martinmitch · « **Reply #299 on:** August 31, 2006, 07:48:41 pm »

Quote

David,

The dysfunctiuonality of the media configuration tool has been known very soon after the printer was released and tested. It is simply amazing that Canon hasn't fixed this yet. Maybe they'll issue a fix discretely like perhaps they've done with the status monitor. As I said, cudos to you guys, but I'm biding my time while I watch developments with close interest.

The one saving grace is that it does make very good prints without having to flush ink when changing media. That is worth a whole lot, but is a distinct Epson issue that Epson will have to fix if they want to preserve any kind of market share going forward.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=75136\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hello

This conversation to me has gone full circle bringing up issues many ownners of Canon Ipf5000 brought up back in June 06 when these machines were delivered to us in U/K in States it was a month or so earlier.

martinmitch

Author Topic: ipf5000 (Read 435755 times)