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Author Topic: How to Execute my Workflow in Lightroom  (Read 8853 times)

Rhossydd

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Re: How to Execute my Workflow in Lightroom
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2016, 03:56:12 pm »

But the catalog and images are, so I'm willing to risk two failures, one on the disk (writing to the catalog file) and a total failure of the disk.
I've been in the computer business for over 50 years and, although multiple independent failures are not unknown, they are quite rare.
Given the very modest size of the catalogue back ups, it seems churlish not to add them to the bu list.
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Hans Kruse

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Re: How to Execute my Workflow in Lightroom
« Reply #21 on: March 29, 2016, 04:17:33 am »

I have finally capitulated to the Adobe Photography CC Extortion Plan and will be moving from Photoshop CS6.  Considering the plan includes Photoshop and Bridge I could maintain my workflow as is using ACR for NEF conversion.  But, if I was to try Lightroom, I am trying to figure out how to work LR's catalogue into my workflow.  I've read the PDF LR manual/help files on import.

My Workflow
1. Download Files from Card to Directory structucture on my computer
2. Review and select files
3. Delete files I know I will never use (I'm an apostate)
4. Use ACR to "develop" the raw file storing setting in XMP files
5. Move the files to my Server and backup to BD-M Disk
6. Delete from Main computer where originally downloaded.

Since to use the files in LR they must be imported into the catalog, I would have to use LR to move them to server or Delete them from LR and re import them from the server.

1. Is this correct?

2. Is there a mechanism in LR catalog for it to know where on the server while silmultaneously knowing the BD-M disk where the image is stored?  That is, can LR understand that the same photograph is in 2 different locations or must I create 2 different instances of the same photograph?

Thanks,
Dave

Rather than answering your questions directly it might be better to just answer by showing my workflow using Lightroom.

I have a single machine (MacBook Pro 15" with an external monitor in my office). My images are spread across the internal drive on the MBP for the newest images and an external LaCie drive for the rest.
Backup is done via TimeMachine (TM) for the MBP itself and for the LaCie drive it is synchronized with two other drives in my office. The MBP and the external drive is also backed up in the cloud using Backblaze.
On my travels I have a copy of the LaCie drive on a portable 3TB drive and I have two portable drives for TM backup. Before any trip the two IM backups are run so that I always have a backup at home if I get all stolen on a trip.

For each trip I create a new folder on the internal drive on the MBP with the standard <year>.<month> <trip name>

After the first shoot on a new trip I will during import create and select the new folder name and import the images directly from the SD card reader in the MBP to that folder. On import I have a preset that I apply that sets my default sharpening for landscapes (fine detail), lens correction and the camera profile I want. I also generate 1:1 previews so that I quickly can check images for sharpness, focus etc. I also have a day folder selected below the main folder.
For subsequent imports they images are imported into the same folder and the day folders below are automatically created by Lightroom for each new day.
After import I will run the TimeMachine backups. On my trip the cloud backup is disabled as rarely is there a WiFi that can handle this bandwidth. I keep the two TM backups in different places.

On a trip I rarely delete any files, but I will do some rating and processes some of the pictures. I also apply keywords and I also geotag all my files.

Back home in my office I will typically not delete any files until several months has passed and I have looked at the images with fresh eyes. Then I will do the rating process and delete anything that has not reached a certain level of star rating. In this way I can keep the volume of files down rather than keeping everything.

To protect my catalog I will regularly make a Lightroom catalog backup which also gets backed up by the TM backups. I have never lost a Lightroom catalog.

I do not create any pixel level files unless I need to edit in Photoshop or any other external application that does the edits on pixels. More than 95% of my entire collection of images only lives as a RAW file with edits in Lightroom. I do printing directly from Lightroom with shot proofing as needed in Lightroom. I upload images to my websites hosted by Smugmug and Zenfolio using the publish feature in Lightroom. For posting of images elsewhere I export small JPG files which I upload manually (Facebook page, G+, 500px, etc.)

Notice I have a copy of all my images with me on a trip, so if I need to send a file to somebody I can change the folder settings in Lightroom to point to the portable drive folders instead of the LaCie drive in my office. When back in office I switch the folder locations back to the Lacie drive. This is done by having all my trip folders under one or two folders which makes switching easy as I only have to tell Lightroom the location of the "superfolder(s)" and not all the trip folders (as they are below the superfolder).

I hope this is usefull  :D

Hans Kruse

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Re: How to Execute my Workflow in Lightroom
« Reply #22 on: March 29, 2016, 04:21:57 am »

I'm with Rhossydd here, I do backup the LR catalog backups too. One important step that LR does when creating the catalog backup is the integrity check, which helps detect any potential issues.

After having experienced not one but two multiple independent failures in mission-critical systems, I think I developed a computer-PSTD, so my comment is: There is no such thing as too many backups.

I agree as I have written in another post following yours. I have 4 TimeMachine backups for my main machine (2 in the office and 2 on the road). I have 2 backups (synchronized) from my main external LaCie drive in my office and one portable for the road. In addition a clouds backup of everything. I have spent 20 years in the fault tolerant computer business so I also developed some nerdy habits  ;D ;)

dwswager

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Re: How to Execute my Workflow in Lightroom
« Reply #23 on: April 12, 2016, 08:00:58 am »

Wanted to add an update and thanks for advice.  I have now joined the Adobe CC Photography plan at $7.99/ month.  The benefits of ACR 9.5 (both from bridge and lightroom) became too compelling over verion 7.1.

1. Lightroom cannot supplant Bridge.  For most sports shoots, I do a first cull to about 10%-15% and I do it from the Memory Card.  Lightroom can't do this due to Adobe's limitation of having to move images when importing from a card.

2. I have not fully embraced lightroom, but it will take 2 catalogs.  A "working" catalog and a "Historical" catalog.  No way around that due to the limitations of LR.

3. While the DAM functionality of LR surpasses Bridge, if you keep your images in a single directory tree, Bridge gets you almost all the way there and has additionally functionality LR does not.  The benefit of LR is precisely that it can draw from varied locations and maintains the location without you having to know or keep track.  LR also allows the "artificial" collections that Bridge lacks.

4. The use of some plugins seem clunky within LR versus natural in Photoshop.  I suppose this is because LR is a RAW converter at heart while Photoshop is designed for working with the converted file and most plug-in also need to work with the converted file.

5  I have come to see the wisdom of the Photography plan including Bridge, LR and PS.  If you use LR alone, you have either changed or designed your workflow around it's limitations.  With the entire set, you can take the shortest path, if you are willing to study the map.

Thanks for all the help.
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Rhossydd

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Re: How to Execute my Workflow in Lightroom
« Reply #24 on: April 12, 2016, 08:24:05 am »

Lightroom can't do this due to Adobe's limitation of having to move images when importing from a card.
So you still haven't understood the import process and options then.
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dwswager

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Re: How to Execute my Workflow in Lightroom
« Reply #25 on: April 12, 2016, 08:32:25 am »

So you still haven't understood the import process and options then.

Yes, I understand.  Adobe instituted a limitation in LR that if the photos to be imported are on a memory card, the images must be moved or copied.  If the images are on a hard drive, you can simply import them to catalog and leave them where they are.  I understand the overall logic of this choice, but it means I cannot do a first cull (using flags, ratings or labels) of say 1200 RAW files down to say 250 without downloading of the card.  While I will eventually download the remaining 250 images, there is no point of downloading the other 950, especially when I am doing it from a wireless laptop designed for portability and not speed.  This is a task Bridge handles with aplomb.
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rdonson

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Re: How to Execute my Workflow in Lightroom
« Reply #26 on: April 12, 2016, 08:40:25 am »

When you're in the IMPORT dialog you can view photos from any connected device and that includes a CF or SD card.  That allows you to do the culling BEFORE actual import simply by unchecking the photos you don't want to import.
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Regards,
Ron

rdonson

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Regards,
Ron

dwswager

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Re: How to Execute my Workflow in Lightroom
« Reply #28 on: April 12, 2016, 09:32:48 am »

When you're in the IMPORT dialog you can view photos from any connected device and that includes a CF or SD card.  That allows you to do the culling BEFORE actual import simply by unchecking the photos you don't want to import.

Yes, I can bend my workflow to make that work.  However, I do not want to eventually import those items to my laptop.  Hence, when I have checked/unchecked the images based on this first call, it has bought me nothing.  I could copy the files to my deskop, but the wireless connection to the router and then 100MB Ethernet connection to the desktop would make this extremely tedious.

Here is how I work.  I shoot the images.  I come home, plop my equipment down.  Take the memory card, pop it into my laptop and plant my backside into an Ekones Stressless Chair in front of my 60 inch TV.  I then do a first pass through the images selecting those and possibly adding labels/ratings.  All non passing images are deleted from the card.  At some later time, I take the card to my desktop and import them into LR "Working Catalog" copying the images to a set of mirrored drives on my desktop.  When I have worked them, I then move them to my server and import them into the LR "Historical Catalog".

My larger point is that I have access to Bridge, Photoshop and LR through the Adobe CC Photography Plan.  In this case Bridge is, by far, the best tool for the job. If all I had was LR (the original genesis of this topic), then I would probably do it different and directly on the desktop.   But I don't have to bend my will to LR because I have access to Bridge!

If the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail!
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rdonson

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Re: How to Execute my Workflow in Lightroom
« Reply #29 on: April 12, 2016, 09:44:08 am »

You have chosen your specific workflow that you don't want to alter and that's fine.  If Bridge is your choice that's fine as well. 

Just don't assume that your workflow is based on flaws or shortcomings in Lightroom.  Many of us are doing shoots with a thousand photos that need culling and use Lightroom successfully.  We also put photos on multiple redundant arrays and use more than one Lightroom catalog.  All that without the use of Bridge.

We're all happy that you find Adobe CC Photography is adaptable to your needs.
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Regards,
Ron

fdisilvestro

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Re: How to Execute my Workflow in Lightroom
« Reply #30 on: April 12, 2016, 09:48:52 am »

Here is how I work.  I shoot the images.  I come home, plop my equipment down.  Take the memory card, pop it into my laptop and plant my backside into an Ekones Stressless Chair in front of my 60 inch TV.  I then do a first pass through the images selecting those and possibly adding labels/ratings.  All non passing images are deleted from the card. 

I understand your workflow and I agree that LR is not a good tool if you want to cull the images in the memory card. Moreover, culling in the LR import dialog is next to useless. In any case I would consider using FastRawViewer for that job and you can assign ratings there too at at much higher speed

I take the card to my desktop and import them into LR "Working Catalog" copying the images to a set of mirrored drives on my desktop.  When I have worked them, I then move them to my server and import them into the LR "Historical Catalog".


I don't understand this part of the workflow. Unless you need to have two simultaneous users, one in the "working" and another in the "Historical", I see no reason to split the library this way, at least there is no technological reason to do so.

PeterAit

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Re: How to Execute my Workflow in Lightroom
« Reply #31 on: April 12, 2016, 10:02:08 am »


2. I have not fully embraced lightroom, but it will take 2 catalogs.  A "working" catalog and a "Historical" catalog.  No way around that due to the limitations of LR.


I fail to understand this statement. I have used only a single LR catalog since day 1.
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dwswager

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Re: How to Execute my Workflow in Lightroom
« Reply #32 on: April 12, 2016, 10:12:22 am »

First, I wish to apologize if any took offense, especially since the original intent of this topic was precisely how to execute my workflow in LR vice Bridge/PS.   While I could develop a workflow based only on LR that would work, it would be less efficient and effective for me.  And since I now that have access to all 3 via the photography CC plan, I don't need to do that either.

Let me be clear, LR and Bridge have different strengths and weaknesses and entirely different operating paradigms.  There will be some workflows (or parts thereof) and tasks better handled in one versus the other.  The trick is knowing which is better suited.  Hence why I see the wisdom of the photography plan versus LR CC alone.  Adobe apparently understood this.  Those that work solely in Bridge probably have tasks better handled via LR and vice versa.

I don't understand this part of the workflow. Unless you need to have two simultaneous users, one in the "working" and another in the "Historical", I see no reason to split the library this way, at least there is no technological reason to do so.

This is based on how I work.  I import to my local desktop to do the work.  Once that has occurred and I've used the images for their initial intended purposes, they get moved to my server for storage and alternate use at a later date.  I could do this in a single catalog, but it is just easier to separate them and work in smaller ones.  I also have Lightroom and Bridge output xmp to the individual folders.  I also have Bridge/PS/LR on my laptop, but only use that when away from home because the laptop is small and slow and lacks a great screen (though it is kept calibrated).  It was bought for it's 12hr battery life.
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dwswager

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Re: How to Execute my Workflow in Lightroom
« Reply #33 on: April 12, 2016, 10:22:16 am »

I fail to understand this statement. I have used only a single LR catalog since day 1.

And you designed your workflow around that.  I have 12 years of Photoshop/Bridge history around which my workflow was developed and the paradigm of having to import images into a "catalog" does not lend itself to that workflow.  If LR allowed catalog sharing and placement on a network access (and the network was fast enough), then I could also use a single catalog.  The catalog approach allows more functionality than simply writing the "develop instructions" into XMP.  It is what allows collections and snapshots and history in LR that is not available in Bridge/ACR.  It also means one has to have access to the catalog versus just the RAW file and it's associated sidecar .XMP file.

I have read numerous articles that recommend keeping your images on an external hard drive.  That is a LR limitation mitigation strategy.   It works well for some and is not suited to others.
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bobtowery

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Re: How to Execute my Workflow in Lightroom
« Reply #34 on: April 18, 2016, 03:19:32 pm »

Dave,

First of all, please take no offense as none is intended.

I have read through this thread several times, including your very first post, to understand your motivation.

As background I have taught quite a few people to use LR, including individually and done presentations for large groups. I admit to being a huge fan, and I'm also a lifelong DB guy for my day job (both as a a programmer and also as a designer). Been a user since V2. I have 210,341 images in my main catalog. Just so you understand my bias.

In helping people attempt to adapt their workflow to LR, I have had several that are thinking like you do. They HAVE a workflow. Lightroom WILL conform to MY workflow. Generally these people are not successful making the jump.

Since computer programs are developed like people, programs have their way of doing things, kind of an ethos. The developers decide to have the application process information in various ways. Sometimes certain individuals don't care for the process implemented. (In my day job, someone last week told us we are doing stores inventory backordering wrong, and we have been doing it this way for 25+ years with thousands of users and hundreds of organizations.)

It doesn't make the developer right nor the individual wrong. It just is.

I had one friend that I helped out, he resisted mightily. I basically gave up on him. About a month later he told me he had rethought things, tried my WF and was enjoying LR. He told me "it was like I was trying to make one of those flourless chocolate cakes, putting the flour in and then taking it back out."

You are wed to your WF and it works for you. It ain't gonna work for LR, it's the wrong hammer for your nail, using your phrase. Some of us think LR kicks ass. Some people think it sucks ass compared to PS. To each his own.

If you were on of the people I teach, I would say take your pick - use a WF suitable for LR, or don't use LR.

All the best! Bob.
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dwswager

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Re: How to Execute my Workflow in Lightroom
« Reply #35 on: April 18, 2016, 05:41:28 pm »

I agree wholeheartedly.  The original post was made because I was intending to give up PS CS6 because ACR would no longer be updated and I figured I would move to LR permanent licence.  Since I opted instead for the Adboe CC Photography plan, I no longer have that problem. I am currently still using Bridge/ACR CC while trying to understand and learn LR.

There are things LR can do as far as DAM that Bridge cannot.  And things that Bridge can do that LR cannot.  Not sure long term which route would be better yet.  To change my workflow to go with LR or keep it and stay with Bridge.

Dave,

First of all, please take no offense as none is intended.

I have read through this thread several times, including your very first post, to understand your motivation.

As background I have taught quite a few people to use LR, including individually and done presentations for large groups. I admit to being a huge fan, and I'm also a lifelong DB guy for my day job (both as a a programmer and also as a designer). Been a user since V2. I have 210,341 images in my main catalog. Just so you understand my bias.

In helping people attempt to adapt their workflow to LR, I have had several that are thinking like you do. They HAVE a workflow. Lightroom WILL conform to MY workflow. Generally these people are not successful making the jump.

Since computer programs are developed like people, programs have their way of doing things, kind of an ethos. The developers decide to have the application process information in various ways. Sometimes certain individuals don't care for the process implemented. (In my day job, someone last week told us we are doing stores inventory backordering wrong, and we have been doing it this way for 25+ years with thousands of users and hundreds of organizations.)

It doesn't make the developer right nor the individual wrong. It just is.

I had one friend that I helped out, he resisted mightily. I basically gave up on him. About a month later he told me he had rethought things, tried my WF and was enjoying LR. He told me "it was like I was trying to make one of those flourless chocolate cakes, putting the flour in and then taking it back out."

You are wed to your WF and it works for you. It ain't gonna work for LR, it's the wrong hammer for your nail, using your phrase. Some of us think LR kicks ass. Some people think it sucks ass compared to PS. To each his own.

If you were on of the people I teach, I would say take your pick - use a WF suitable for LR, or don't use LR.

All the best! Bob.
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