High ISO Noisy Image Processing Workflow Help Needed

[dwswager]

When I do have high ISO images, I generally have about 50-70 to process at one time.  They are generally  ISO 2500-6400, 14bit RAW files.  They require the following corrections:

Noise Reduction
White Balance
Exposure
Contrast
Shadow and Highlight adjustments
Down sampling to a smaller size
Output sharpening

In what order should the workflow progress? What should be done during conversion and what steps after?

I am under the impression that noise reduction should come first, but that would mean either using the conversion software to do noise reduction or having to convert the image to use Denoise or Noiseware and then doing the other manipulations on a converted file.  Neither sounds appealing.

If there is a link to a good primer/advanced technique somewhere on the web (text or video), it would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Dave

[AlterEgo]

In what order should the workflow progress? What should be done during conversion and what steps after?

if you are doing everything in a raw converter the order of internal operations is always the same no matter what (in which order) you do in GUI (there might be exception when you have layers with certain adjustment in raw converter, then naturally the order of the layers matters)... if you are asking what to do in raw converter and what to do after raw converter you might want to name which raw converter you are talking about and what tools you have for postprocessing (like for example PS + some plugins for NR/sharpening, etc)... typically people when/if doing something after raw converter do something from contrast/curves|color effects/NR/downsampling/sharpening - but not WB/push|pull exposure ... that depends on your available plugins and experience with "photoshop".

[dwswager]

if you are doing everything in a raw converter the order of internal operations is always the same no matter what (in which order) you do in GUI (there might be exception when you have layers with certain adjustment in raw converter, then naturally the order of the layers matters)... if you are asking what to do in raw converter and what to do after raw converter you might want to name which raw converter you are talking about and what tools you have for postprocessing (like for example PS + some plugins for NR/sharpening, etc)... typically people when/if doing something after raw converter do something from contrast/curves|color effects/NR/downsampling/sharpening - but not WB/push|pull exposure ... that depends on your available plugins and experience with "photoshop".

The second.  I use ACR typically for conversion.

My current process is this since they are not super critical

In ACR (specific to each image)
WB
Exposure
Contrast
Highlight/Shadows
Custom Camera Calibration Selected
Small anount input sharpening
Color noise reduction
Maybe some specific area adjustments

Then I use the Image Processor to Run Noiseware and then Topaz Detail and fit the image to 1920 x 1080 pixels.

Attached are some samples (pulled from a Facebook page so...)  Some are decent others not.  Obviously the lighting is very uneven across the field and becomes very directional based on angles and the spectrum is constantly cycling.  (BWT, in top photo, player on far left in profile is my youngest daughter and her teammate enjoying the moment of beating the crosstown rival while her pregnant coach gets congratulations).

[kirkt]

The second.  I use ACR typically for conversion.

My current process is this since they are not super critical

In ACR (specific to each image)
WB
Exposure
Contrast
Highlight/Shadows
Custom Camera Calibration Selected
Small anount input sharpening
Color noise reduction
Maybe some specific area adjustments

Then I use the Image Processor to Run Noiseware and then Topaz Detail and fit the image to 1920 x 1080 pixels.

Although I do not use Noiseware specifically for noise reduction outside of the raw conversion step of a raw workflow, I would think it expects noise to be representative of the noise in the raw file prior to any attempts to reduce it.  That is, I might suggest that your workflow hold off on any NR during raw conversion and let Noiseware handle the NR exclusively once the raw file is converted.  I would also hold off on any capture sharpening until after Noiseware has done its job.

Just a suggestion.

kirk

[AlterEgo]

The second.  I use ACR typically for conversion.
Then I use the Image Processor to Run Noiseware and then Topaz Detail and fit the image to 1920 x 1080 pixels.

why do you want NR for those images ? do you thinl that NR makes them actually better instead of just downsampling w/o any NR in addition ? also - I think that you can post the original raw files for those shots, I'd not consider them having any commercial value (only sentimental) - so other people my try to demonstrate their opinions using their tools on your raws and you might get some ideas (or not - but there is no harm in trying)...

[dwswager]

why do you want NR for those images ? do you thinl that NR makes them actually better instead of just downsampling w/o any NR in addition ? also - I think that you can post the original raw files for those shots, I'd not consider them having any commercial value (only sentimental) - so other people my try to demonstrate their opinions using their tools on your raws and you might get some ideas (or not - but there is no harm in trying)...

First, there was NR already incorporated into the images shown.  I'm looking for better technique to get more noise reduction with less image degradation (preserving detail and texture).

Good idea about providing RAW images.  I just don't have access to them at the moment.

[rdonson]

https://youtu.be/sYN1FoiXrPg

[AlterEgo]

First, there was NR already incorporated into the images shown. 

right - but what if there is no NR incorporated ... noise can be attempted to be made "beautiful" (instead of NR)... even "digital" 

[dwswager]

right - but what if there is no NR incorporated ... noise can be attempted to be made "beautiful" (instead of NR)... even "digital" 

Oh God, at ISO 6400 with crappy High School stadium lighting you just get NASTY!  Professional Sports photography may have lots of competition and pressure, but technically it is so much easier.  The lighting is much more even, higher level and spectrum controlled.


RAW File Available HERE

[TonyW]

Although I feel NR and sharpening somewhat a personal taste, for me I think you have gone a tad too far and in this case are losing too much detail and ending up with rather plastic looking image.

I suspect that it is often the case when evaluating images for noise that we can get a little carried away and attempt to remove it all when viewing at 100% leading to sometimes less than optimal IQ.  It should be borne in mind if we are viewing at 100% then we are looking at a 3x magnified view of a print (on the assumption that we are printing to a Canon/HP device expecting 300 ppi and a monitor with a res. of approx 100 ppi)

Attached sample shows the original image at 100% zoom and down-sampled to 1920 pixels widest (no NR and only default sharpen ACR) and also inset of your original.  If a screen image of 1920 pix. wide is all you are wanting then perhaps experiment with pretty low NR may reveal a more detailed image and can be left till later in your workflow. 

[dwswager]

Although I feel NR and sharpening somewhat a personal taste, for me I think you have gone a tad too far and in this case are losing too much detail and ending up with rather plastic looking image.

That is what I am trying to solve.  The best method to eliminate as much noise as possible without destroying too much detail and loosing texture (getting that plastic look).    I'm trying to develop the process flow (step by step on pre or post conversion image and correct order) that gives the best results.