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Author Topic: "the best photographers are adept at getting luck on their side"  (Read 27382 times)

AreBee

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Re: "the best photographers are adept at getting luck on their side"
« Reply #80 on: March 17, 2016, 03:24:31 pm »

Peter (McLennan),

Quote
Hardest job I've ever had.

But also the most personally rewarding?
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Riaan van Wyk

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Re: "the best photographers are adept at getting luck on their side"
« Reply #81 on: March 17, 2016, 03:38:44 pm »

Rob,

Is that the best you can do?

Rob B, realy?? Does everything here have to dissolve into nothingness with a pissing match and dick measuring excersize?

There are no prizes in this disscourse that you think is a "fight." MR has forever and a day said that the forum must be treated as if likeminded people are sitting in someone's kitchen discussing an issue. If you and Isaac were seated around this make believe kitchen table with other people in the discussion, the odds that you will eventualy end arguing with each other is rather good. The odds that everyone will leave is also high up in the probable rankings as there is realy more important things to dissect/ analyze/ ponder about than the honest response and thoughts from a man like Rob C who has been there, done that and has forgotten what perhaps some posters on this forum still hope to learn before they die.

Jeremy Roussak

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Re: "the best photographers are adept at getting luck on their side"
« Reply #82 on: March 17, 2016, 03:40:04 pm »

Sometimes, deleting one's thread is the only way of getting out of notifications for a thread that ran its course and turned into something one doesn't want to follow anymore.

I'm not sure that's true, Slobodan. Notifications by email contain an "unsubscribe" link.

Jeremy
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: "the best photographers are adept at getting luck on their side"
« Reply #83 on: March 17, 2016, 04:04:38 pm »

I'm not sure that's true, Slobodan. Notifications by email contain an "unsubscribe" link.

I am sure, Jeremy.

Notifications by email is a separate function, for which you have to first subscribe. I am talking about two more usual and by default menu choices one has when visiting forums:

1. Show unread posts since your last visit
2. Show new replies to your posts

I was referring to #2. The only way to get out of a thread showing in #2 is to delete your post(s).

Rob C

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Re: "the best photographers are adept at getting luck on their side"
« Reply #84 on: March 17, 2016, 04:06:13 pm »

Rob,

Do you honestly consider that referring to Isaac as Son of Hal does anything other than demean you?

Do you honestly consider that a computer operating system affects how thread comments on the Luminous Landscape website are interpreted by those who view them?

Is that the best you can do?


Ah, now I place you: we crossed claymores once before (difficult, for me, with their being so heavy) and I realised then why conversation  between us was going to be impossible: it always is, with a tartan literalist.

I'm out: off your radar (I hope) and you firmly off mine.

Adios.

Rob C

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Re: "the best photographers are adept at getting luck on their side"
« Reply #85 on: March 17, 2016, 04:27:35 pm »

The majority of people disagree because it is a truly cosmically stupid and ignorant statement. Tell it to Saint Ansel whose workshops inspired hundreds of photographers over many years (yours truly among them).

The fact is that in any field of art, supporting yourself solely by selling your work or talent is very rare and difficult, and depends as much on luck, contacts, and self-promotion as it does on the quality of your work. I mean, look at the dreck being sold for large amounts in some galleries in NY and elsewhere, or the many photographers making a living with "calendar and greeting card" crap.

Many highly talented artists teach because they love working with students. It can also be a way to pay the bills to allow you to pursue your passion.

It's unfortunate that you did not have better teachers.


Peter, at first I thought of underlining or making bold the points I was going to raise, then I decided it wasn't going to look pretty, so I won't.

The more elegant way is to say just "thank you" for, in fact, simply restating my case for me, which is, in essence, that yes, making it as career in photography is tough, and only if you can't hack that full-time, do you seek alternatives to enable the paying of the grocery and/or light bills, as Saul Leiter was wont to say.

Regarding the anointed one: if you read his "Letters, 1916 - 1984" you realise that far from making it big in professional photography he spent most of his days as a photographer pretty much broke. He also wasted a lot of time doing what I'm doing here: having exchanges with other photographers. If you ask me, which you have not, I'd suggest a part of his problem was taking up photography instead of staying with his first love: music. (Regarding photography in general, it has often been said that photography is something some people take up only after failing at everything else; I defeated those odds by making the jump at the first opportunity and thus robbing a demented Fate from beating me to it...)

The 'saint' began to 'make it' in relative old age, via the politics he embraced within the Sierra Club that led to a higher profile in 'conservation', and then the even more important intervention of an angel, a gentleman who took him into the gallery world. If you do or do not think of the gallery world as professional photography, I do not know; for my part, it's not. Not even remotely.

Rob

P.S.

Just noticed the crack about my having better teachers: if you look at my website you'll find that I dedicate a line to one of mine: Barbara Farr, who was the best English teacher - or teacher of anything - that I ever encountered. Photography teachers? I had 'em forced upon me too, unfortunately, and I walked out when I realised them to be totally irrelevant to my life, desires and needs; they were even less informed of where I wanted to journey than was I. It's been the experience of every successful snapper I have met - can't vouch for the others. Photographic teaching begins and ends with the mechanics, possibly now the electronics of the business. That bit's simple: the problem, when there is one, resides inside the head of the snapper.

Good teachers certainly do exist, but then the good ones don't sell snake oil; they don't make you promises designed to lighten your pocket rather than to enlighten your mind.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2016, 04:51:50 pm by Rob C »
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Rob C

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Re: "the best photographers are adept at getting luck on their side"
« Reply #86 on: March 17, 2016, 04:31:35 pm »

"Teaching is for when you can get nothing better to do."


It's an aphorism among teachers that the teacher learns as much as the student.

Certainly true in my case. Hardest job I've ever had.

Peter, I don't think anyone said it was easy.

The point being made was that photography, as career, is even less easy, and never more so than today.

Rob

Rob C

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Re: "the best photographers are adept at getting luck on their side"
« Reply #87 on: March 17, 2016, 04:53:08 pm »

Rob B, realy?? Does everything here have to dissolve into nothingness with a pissing match and dick measuring excersize?

There are no prizes in this disscourse that you think is a "fight." MR has forever and a day said that the forum must be treated as if likeminded people are sitting in someone's kitchen discussing an issue. If you and Isaac were seated around this make believe kitchen table with other people in the discussion, the odds that you will eventualy end arguing with each other is rather good. The odds that everyone will leave is also high up in the probable rankings as there is realy more important things to dissect/ analyze/ ponder about than the honest response and thoughts from a man like Rob C who has been there, done that and has forgotten what perhaps some posters on this forum still hope to learn before they die.


Hey, Riaan, that's very kind of you!

;-)

Rob C

AreBee

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Re: "the best photographers are adept at getting luck on their side"
« Reply #88 on: March 17, 2016, 05:10:28 pm »

Riaan van Wyk,

There are occasions when I agree that the best course of action is to stay silent and refrain from responding to a particular comment, or indeed to retire from a thread altogether. However, it also is true that there are occasions when remaing silent or retiring from a thread would be the wrong thing to do.

If Rob is unable to articulate his thoughts without resort to name-calling then that is regrettable but ultimately of no concern to me. However, when a response to me is used as an opportunity to score points against another then I object, and in post 65 did so.

I do not consider that Rob is unable to articulate his thoughts without resort to name-calling. Consequently, when Rob subsequently wrote that he had "...responded, as best and as honestly as I could..." I challenged statements made in his previous comment.

Quote
There are no prizes in this disscourse that you think is a "fight."

There are certainly no prizes for misrepresenting what I think.



Rob,

Quote
Ah, now I place you: we crossed claymores once before...

By all means, provide a link to that occasion - I have nothing to hide.

Quote
...tartan literalist...

How sad.
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Rob C

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Re: "the best photographers are adept at getting luck on their side"
« Reply #89 on: March 17, 2016, 05:30:55 pm »

Who the hell hal is the Son of Hal? ???


Not who, what.

Check out Mr Stanley Kubrick's space opus(magnum?). My firewalls have sometimes not been good enough.

;-)

Rob

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: "the best photographers are adept at getting luck on their side"
« Reply #90 on: March 17, 2016, 05:44:48 pm »

Ah, HAL 9000

Question for Rob B: how is calling someone the son of a supercomputer an "attack"? If anything, it seems like a perfectly applicable metaphor. One might even consider it a compliment.

Richowens

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Re: "the best photographers are adept at getting luck on their side"
« Reply #91 on: March 17, 2016, 05:59:16 pm »


Certainly true in my case.  Hardest job I've ever had.

 Most rewarding job I've ever done.

Rich
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Jeremy Roussak

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Re: "the best photographers are adept at getting luck on their side"
« Reply #92 on: March 18, 2016, 04:24:37 am »

I am sure, Jeremy.

Notifications by email is a separate function, for which you have to first subscribe. I am talking about two more usual and by default menu choices one has when visiting forums:

1. Show unread posts since your last visit
2. Show new replies to your posts

I was referring to #2. The only way to get out of a thread showing in #2 is to delete your post(s).

I see. In that case, you're right. We were at cross-purposes: I assumed "notification" meant a notification, rather than just showing up in a list. I use the "show unread posts since your last visit" every time I look at the forums here, and only seldom follow a thread by notification.

Jeremy
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: "the best photographers are adept at getting luck on their side"
« Reply #93 on: March 18, 2016, 10:49:22 am »

... I assumed "notification" meant a notification, rather than just showing up in a list...

Confusing choice of words, my bad.

Isaac

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Re: "the best photographers are adept at getting luck on their side"
« Reply #94 on: March 18, 2016, 12:48:31 pm »

MR has forever and a day said that the forum must be treated as if likeminded people are sitting in someone's kitchen discussing an issue. If you and Isaac were seated around this make believe kitchen table with other people in the discussion, the odds that you will eventualy end arguing with each other is rather good.

Not only is it likely that I would argue with Rob B. -- there have already been several topics about which we have argued; and in some of those arguments I'd got something wrong, and in some of those arguments I didn't understand something as-well-as I'd thought, and in some of those arguments vice versa.

Without sneering, without mockery, without quarreling.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: "the best photographers are adept at getting luck on their side"
« Reply #95 on: March 18, 2016, 01:02:41 pm »

... Without sneering, without mockery, without quarreling.

Booooring!

Isaac

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Re: "the best photographers are adept at getting luck on their side"
« Reply #96 on: March 18, 2016, 01:38:04 pm »

Does everything here have to dissolve into nothingness with a pissing match and dick measuring excersize?

Here's your answer --


... Without sneering, without mockery, without quarreling.
Booooring!
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: "the best photographers are adept at getting luck on their side"
« Reply #97 on: March 18, 2016, 01:59:59 pm »

Here's your answer --

Quote
...dick measuring exercise...

Quote
Booooring!

Exactly!

That's why I had to extend the word "boring" ;)

Rob C

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Re: "the best photographers are adept at getting luck on their side"
« Reply #98 on: March 18, 2016, 03:37:33 pm »

The Coffee Corner Soap is a better source of comedic content and entertainment than the entirety of British television programing.

An evening simply wouldn't be complete without watching an episode or two.


That's why it's addictive, Keith.

I heard the Big Daddy Rupert M is thinking of making Kevin an offer...

Rob
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