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Author Topic: Canon Pro-1000 firmware update 1.080  (Read 4486 times)

rick_k

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Canon Pro-1000 firmware update 1.080
« on: March 02, 2016, 03:41:20 pm »

I received my replacement Canon Pro-1000 and after setup got a message on a firmware update. I also saw in a review from photoreview.com.au ( http://www.photoreview.com.au/reviews/printers/canon-imageprograf-pro-1000-printer ) that they had several issues that were fixed with 1.070 but no mention what the issues were.

I'm curious if anyone knows what issues were fixed in these firmware updates.

Rick
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howardm

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Re: Canon Pro-1000 firmware update 1.080
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2016, 03:51:25 pm »

see if it'll print >22" length ;)

Mark D Segal

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Re: Canon Pro-1000 firmware update 1.080
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2016, 03:58:21 pm »

According to the specs, it prints to 23.4 inches, not 22 inches.

I read through the review you linked. There is a hugely mistaken notion there about ink usage during initial charge-up. The reviewer leaves the impression that one is only left with about half the initial volumes for printing. This is incorrect. One is left with most of it. Yes, the cartridge levels are reduced, but most of that ink is sitting in the lines, the buffer tanks and the print head and will be used for making prints. These three components absorb about half the capacity of the cartridges, but that ink ends up on paper.

As to the firmware changes, I have no idea. In general practice it is always a good idea to download the latest firmware from the manufacturer's website when installing new equipment. That way you have all the latest fixes whatever they may have been. Doesn't matter if we don't know what they were - that's history. All that matters is how the printer performs once you start using it.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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hugowolf

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Re: Canon Pro-1000 firmware update 1.080
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2016, 05:09:16 pm »

No, the ink in the lines will be there when the printer dies. Not the same ink, but the same quantity of ink. That is not a mistake, huge or otherwise. If there is ever air in the lines after the initial fill, then you have a problem.

Brian A
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Canon Pro-1000 firmware update 1.080
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2016, 05:14:49 pm »

Then the loss of ink is an end of life loss because there is no more printer, not an initial loss.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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hugowolf

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Re: Canon Pro-1000 firmware update 1.080
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2016, 05:24:10 pm »

It is the same thing Mark. It is filled initially and it stays filled. That volume of ink is lost, never used, gone, etc.

Brian A
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Canon Pro-1000 firmware update 1.080
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2016, 05:29:32 pm »

Well, it through-puts until the printer dies. What more do we want?  :-) Once a printer dies the amount of ink left in it is literally a sunk cost. The real point I was making is that the initial charge-up ink isn't disappearing into maintenance. It gets used. This is different from the impression made in that referenced review. Anyhow, let's leave it at that. We understand each other.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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MHMG

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Re: Canon Pro-1000 firmware update 1.080
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2016, 05:55:57 pm »

Well, it through-puts until the printer dies. What more do we want?  :-) Once a printer dies the amount of ink left in it is literally a sunk cost. The real point I was making is that the initial charge-up ink isn't disappearing into maintenance. It gets used. This is different from the impression made in that referenced review. Anyhow, let's leave it at that. We understand each other.

I don't know about the Pro-1000, but if it's anything like my Pro-1, it will be an unruly ink hog that will put several times the amount of ink down the waste tank compared to what hits the paper for most users. My Pro-1 uses multiple preemptive cleaning cycles based on simple clock timer rules for time since last used to initiate a cleaning cycle before starting to print. The first preemptive clean will occur after only 2-3 days of non use, then it ratchets upwards to heavier preemptive cleaning cycles, somewhere between 7-20 days for at least one more aggressive one, then culminating in a major clean cycle if unused for 45 days (this confirmed in the Pro-1 service manual).  Bottom line:  if I don't use my Pro-1 each and every day for one or two prints, or if I don't gang up dozens of prints to make after leaving the Pro-1 unused for a couple of weeks, the Pro-1 will use as much ink to maintain itself before initiating the print cycle as would be consumed at the print surface while making several prints.  And don't unplug the unit from a live electrical outlet.  That will reset the Pro-1 to a reboot as if it has been off for more than 45 days.

I was so alarmed at ink wastage on the Pro-1 that I bought an an accurate digital weighing scale and started checking cartridge consumption. My initial set of cartridges didn't even make 35 8x10 equivalent prints because at first I wasn't aware I had to use the printer so frequently to ensure much better ink conservation.  Now my weighing studies show, for example, that the 45 day off period will cost you over 40 ml of ink down the waste tank...i.e enough to print approximately 40 or more 8x10 inch prints if that ink had hit the paper instead of the waste tank.  None of the reviewers seem to have picked up on this issue for the Canon Pro-1 printer, presumably because they don't have their loaner model from Canon long enough to figure out what's going on. Aargh :(

I'd like to know if the Pro-1000 is any less aggressive on invoking preemptive cleaning cycles than the Pro-1 before I buy one!

cheers,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com

« Last Edit: March 02, 2016, 07:02:28 pm by MHMG »
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Landscapes

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Re: Canon Pro-1000 firmware update 1.080
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2016, 10:57:27 pm »

Now my weighing studies show, for example, that the 45 day off period will cost you over 40 ml of ink down the waste tank...i.e enough to print approximately 40 or more 8x10 inch prints if that ink had hit the paper instead of the waste tank. 

I can't comment on this printer directly since I don't have it, but I can fully back up this conclusion.  With my iPF6400, I make sure to print something every 2 days.  To print this image might only be 2ml or so, but it somehow tells the printer its been used, and the counter resets before it will do maintenance.  If I skip printing something and wait more than 3 days, it seems like it will first want to do a nozzle check of a clean cycle.  I don't keep accurate enough records since there isn't anything I can do about it, so why bother, but each time I see a clean cycle, some ink levels drop.  Yes, they perhaps were about to, but during the coarse of printing, multiple ink levels never drop at the same time, only after a clean.  I know there are various levels of a clean cycle, but even the lightest seems to use about 10ml of ink.  This might mean only 1ml or less from each cart, but it adds up.  Any of this ink is best used to go on the paper, as opposed to into the tank.

The conclusion is that if you cannot print something every couple of days, owning a pro/large format printer will such away too much money.  If you use it, it won't clog, if you use it, it won't need to clean itself.  With these printers, you simply have to print a few times a week.
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GrahamBy

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Re: Canon Pro-1000 firmware update 1.080
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2016, 04:59:06 am »

Mark (that would be MHMG-Mark), did you find the same thing with the pro-100, or is it more of a pigment ink issue?

BTW, is it possible that removing and re-inserting an ink tank triggers some sort of flushing? I've hestitated to pull tanks to check the level on my pro-100 because of this... there does seem to be a churning-pumping phase after replacing a tank. Presumably this may be different on a machine with remote tanks and tube-feed to sub-tanks and the heads.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2016, 05:04:46 am by GrahamBy »
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MHMG

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Re: Canon Pro-1000 firmware update 1.080
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2016, 10:35:28 am »

Mark (that would be MHMG-Mark), did you find the same thing with the pro-100, or is it more of a pigment ink issue?

BTW, is it possible that removing and re-inserting an ink tank triggers some sort of flushing? I've hestitated to pull tanks to check the level on my pro-100 because of this... there does seem to be a churning-pumping phase after replacing a tank. Presumably this may be different on a machine with remote tanks and tube-feed to sub-tanks and the heads.

The Pro-100, despite its small cartridge sizes, is far more economical on ink consumption in low use situations. If it has any preemptive cleaning cycles, they are few and far between and only consume a minimal amount of ink. I have not been able to identify any serious preemptive cleaning issues with my Pro-100.  My amortization study on the Pro-100 is also ongoing but on track to put the Pro-100 in a "best in class" cost of ownership category for low volume users.  This is indeed one advantage of a dye-based printer for users who don't expect to print on an almost daily or weekly basis.  I did also recently acquire a Epson P-400, and it is also off to a great start for overall economy.  It will definitely end up with significantly lower cost of ownership compared to my Epson P600.  The P600 is reasonably economical and remarkably free of auto clean cycles once one gets past the first dozen or so prints (air in the lines is the issue, I believe not clogging, but the P600's economy is highly dependent on keeping PK/MK ink switching to a minimum. The PK/MK issue is more than just the 1.5 to 3ml of ink used to make the switch. It turns out that the P600 will not allow the ink switch if any one or more of the cartridges is at or below about 5% remaining on the ink level indicator.  Few, if any, reviews of this printer, have picked up on that subtle "feature".  So, to make the ink switch one has to discard any low cartridges, and in in one instance I had four low cartridges, so that meant discarding several ml of ink to make the switch conveniently at the moment I intended not to mention the additional ink used once the new cartridges were installed and the switch then took place automatically.


To your point about the cartridge removal causing a cleaning or priming cycle. Yes, different models handle it differently, and I've been studying that issue carefully. The P600 definitely initiates a priming cycle every time a cartridge is reinstalled, which in turn means that those low ink cartridges i discarded at one PK/MK ink switch are most likely not worth reinstalling in the printer to try to use up that residual ink. It's a game of diminishing returns, and I believe Epson knows the true "point of no return"  is when the ink level indicators flag their little yellow triangle warning. A flagged cartridge still has enough ink left at that point to produce several or more good prints if you just run down the printer until it refuses to print, but again, getting at that last amount of ink in each cartridge is not really advisable when it coincides with a desired PK/MK ink switch. Bottom line: Buy two P600's or one P400 and one P600 if you like to print regularly on both matte and glossy media ;D

The Canon Pro-1 is a different animal altogether. It does not appear to automatically induce a priming or cleaning cycle when I remove then reinstall the cartridge. Canon tech support hinted that it may when I discussed my concerns at length with them about how much ink my Pro-1 was wasting, but I then did specific experiments to confirm whether their comments were true, and it was a mixed bag. More often than not, a cartridge removal and reinstallation did not induce a priming cycle other than normal pressurization that the printer does ahead of every print, but in view of their comments, I've now backed way off on the weighing procedures, and now monitor the preemptive cleaning cycles by measuring the time it takes to initiate a print feed. If it takes more than one minute before the media is fed from the tray, you know the Pro-1 is doing more than just pressurizing the lines. It's performing at least one light duty cleaning which will occur with certainty if the Pro-1 has not been run in two days (I believe the first "cleaning" timer cycle is set to go off after 60 hours of non use, i.e. 2.5 days exactly).

For any folks who have been keeping score, you know that I now have four different 13 inch printer models in my studio right now, each with a unique ink set that I am testing.  All can print on a wide variety of media and are advertised and reviewed as such, but it's clear to me that each one of these printers has a real sweet spot for what it does best. The Pro-100 is fabulous for RC media and for anyone who wants to precisely nail the "traditional photo finished look", not so much for matte fine art due to a weak Dmax (no MK ink in the Pro-100) and very restrictive Fine Art matte paper margins.  The P-400 is the best "all around" model for low to moderate users who want to print regularly on both matte and glossy and care about print longevity as well.  It's also got the best gloss optimizer in the industry, IMHO, but its lack of photo gray inks means it's not competitive for B&W print making with generic profiles.  However, if you take the time to produce a great custom profile, then the P400 can indeed make a really decent B&W as well. The Pro-1 is best suited for very frequent higher volume use and glossy/luster media only. It also has four level photo gray inks compared to Epson's three level grays, and thus does best-in-class print quality at "out of the box" B&W printing with no additional heroics required.  That said, the P600 can rival the Pro-1's B&W quality if one starts using advanced techniques like QTR to make B&W prints with the P600. Those advanced B&W techniques aren't available to Pro-1 users.  Also, while the Pro-1 will indeed switch with no penalty between MK and PK, but that may be a moot point to low volume users who will lose massive amounts of inks to constant cleaning cycles on the Pro-1. Also, the Pro-1's hugely restrictive fine art media margins makes it a rather poor choice for anyone who likes to print on fine art matte media.  The P600 is a far better choice in that regard. 

If I had to pick a favorite 13 inch printer or recommend one to a friend from what I have learned to date, it would probably be the P400. The P400 can even serve as a light duty office printer in a pinch when you need to do some plain paper printing since it has no ink switch issue or weird paper margin limits. The P400's Gloss optimizer is so impressive, that I've even begun using the P400 as a convenient GO coater for my  glossy/luster P600 prints (eliminates the need for Post treatment sprays like Print shield).  If you can afford it, the P400 and P600 make a very complementary pair of 13 inch photo printers to have around.  I'm actually somewhat surprised Epson has not put the GO into any bigger printer models to date (think Z3200 type configuration :)).


cheers,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
« Last Edit: March 03, 2016, 12:02:08 pm by MHMG »
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GrahamBy

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Re: Canon Pro-1000 firmware update 1.080
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2016, 10:58:42 am »

Thank you !

(You might want to go back and edit the reference to the Pro-1000 in the 2nd last para, although it's pretty clear you mean pro-1).
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Canon Pro-1000 firmware update 1.080
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2016, 11:01:53 am »


The Pro-1000 is best suited for very frequent higher volume use and glossy/luster media only. It also has four level photo grey inks compared to Epson's three level greys, and thus does best-in-class print quality at "out of the box" B&W printing with no additional heroics required. 

cheers,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com

I thought you said you don't have one of these printers? Do you have one or not? How did you come to these conclusions?
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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MHMG

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Re: Canon Pro-1000 firmware update 1.080
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2016, 11:46:00 am »

Thank you !

(You might want to go back and edit the reference to the Pro-1000 in the 2nd last para, although it's pretty clear you mean pro-1).

Yes, fixed. Thanks for spotting the error....too many zeros in all of these new printer models. It gets confusing!!!
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MHMG

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Re: Canon Pro-1000 firmware update 1.080
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2016, 11:53:28 am »

I thought you said you don't have one of these printers? Do you have one or not? How did you come to these conclusions?

I was indeed making observations about ink usage in my Pro-1. It was a senior moment or something. I have corrected in the original text. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.  I don't yet own a Pro-1000, but would like to acquire one for testing because Canon's longevity claims for the new Pro-1000 are surprisingly modest, so much so that it suggests Canon may have thrown away some of its LUCIA EX light fade resistance when formulating a newer ink set for the Pro-1000.

thanks,
Mark
« Last Edit: March 03, 2016, 12:07:53 pm by MHMG »
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GrahamBy

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Re: Canon Pro-1000 firmware update 1.080
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2016, 07:45:00 am »

I've even begun using the P400 as a convenient GO coater for my  glossy/luster P600 prints (eliminates the need for Post treatment sprays like Print shield).

Mark, how essential do you see coating with GO or other spray for pigment prints on gloss paper? I really like B&W prints on gloss out of my pro-100, but I haven't seen a review which seriously discusses gloss paper in any of the current generation pigment printers : everyone seems a bit obsessed with expensive paper... or at best RC luster/semi-gloss.

There have been a few comments along the lines "gloss differential is no longer an issue" or "bronzing has been greatly improved with the latest inks," but that's about it.
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MHMG

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Re: Canon Pro-1000 firmware update 1.080
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2016, 09:30:15 am »

Mark, how essential do you see coating with GO or other spray for pigment prints on gloss paper? I really like B&W prints on gloss out of my pro-100, but I haven't seen a review which seriously discusses gloss paper in any of the current generation pigment printers : everyone seems a bit obsessed with expensive paper... or at best RC luster/semi-gloss.

There have been a few comments along the lines "gloss differential is no longer an issue" or "bronzing has been greatly improved with the latest inks," but that's about it.

I didn't intend to hijack this thread. We've moved pretty OT from the OP's question, and it doesn't look like the original question has been fully answered yet.  Perhaps you can move your new question to another thread, and I will try to weigh in there on the whole "to spray or not to spray" question.

cheers,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
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