Is there a way to Export a dng back to LR from Photoshop

[Paul2660]

Since LR can't seem to work well for me with any type of HDR pano merge where I have a lot of DR range, i.e. sunsets, see my previous post on this in LuLa.  I have found that exporting the HDR dng's to CC and merging there works fine, no issues with totally blown highlights.  However I can't figure out a way to get the dng back into LR.

Edit:  I used the wrong terms, I am selecting "edit in" dialog then selecting panorama in CC, this is not an export in the normal sense.  I want to come back from "editing in" CC and creating a correctly exposed HDR pano, and then allow that file to come back to LR. 

Is there not a way to save a file as a dng from adobe CC? and then re-export back to LR that dng? or a way to send the merge pano which is still a dng in CC back to LR?

LR/Adobe if you ever read this forum, you have a major screw up in how LR is handling high DR pano merges, which has be part of the logic in the exposure blend.  Basically ruins a great idea and limits the pano feature to much more basic exposure ranges.  And the fact that CC can take the same files on a direct export from LR and merge with no issues, tells me that problem is on the LR side.

For now, would just like a way to get the dng back into LR where I can finish it.  I realize I can make a duplicate layer in CC and use the camera raw filter, but I would rather go back to LR as I prefer LR's toolset over camera raw (yes there are a few differences in the tools ND filter for example).

Thanks

Paul C

[PeterAit]

Since LR can't seem to work well for me with any type of HDR pano merge where I have a lot of DR range, i.e. sunsets, see my previous post on this in LuLa.  I have found that exporting the HDR dng's to CC and merging there works fine, no issues with totally blown highlights.  However I can't figure out a way to get the dng back into LR.

Is there not a way to save a file as a dng from adobe CC? and then re-export back to LR that dng? or a way to send the merge pano which is still a dng in CC back to LR?

LR/Adobe if you ever read this forum, you have a major screw up in how LR is handling high DR pano merges, which has be part of the logic in the exposure blend.  Basically ruins a great idea and limits the pano feature to much more basic exposure ranges.  And the fact that CC can take the same files on a direct export from LR and merge with no issues, tells me that problem is on the LR side.

For now, would just like a way to get the dng back into LR where I can finish it.  I realize I can make a duplicate layer in CC and use the camera raw filter, but I would rather go back to LR as I prefer LR's toolset over camera raw (yes there are a few differences in the tools ND filter for example).

I think you misunderstand the purpose of a DNG file. It is, in essence, a RAW file. In other words, it contains all the information that came from the camera. The format is NOT meant for storage of manipulated images. So, when you send an HDR or pano stack from LR to PS, then save the resulting image, it will be in TIFF format. And that is 100% fine for further manipulations in LR.

[Paul2660]

Hello Peter, No I don't misunderstand the purpose of a dng and understand that it's a form of a raw file.  When you export HDR dng from LR to CC as a pano, they stay as a dng. As the files stay as dng I have to assume the dng is the same dng that was just in LR before I exported it.  The resulting pano is still a dng in CC. You have to save them as a tif once the pano is made if you keep it, but they are all dngs, unless there is a way to export back to LR still as a dng.  So LR is exporting raw-dng files to CC.  And you can use the camera raw filter in CC on them as dngs.  But I don't want to do that, as I don't like Camera raw's tools or flow.  LR's pano merge has some issues that Adobe is not in any hurry to address, which is forcing this for me.

NOTE, I used the wrong terminology, I am not exporting from LR, (I realize that creates a tif or jpg) I am selecting "edit in" from LR, which sends the selected dng files to CC to create a pano.  CC is creating the pano with the dngs but I can't figure out how to bring the created pano back to LR as the only option you have is save as and again this takes you away from the dng format.  As I mentioned, CC allows use of the Camera filter on the CC pano made from dng' but I want to go to LR if possible.

See attached screen shot CC dng pano from LR



Paul C

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi Paul,

I am not sure how "raw" DNG files from pano merge in LR are. Basically, I don't think Photoshop can work with raw images. It can open a raw image but it will always be converted to a demosaiced image.

I would say that Anders Torger may be able to comment on this. He developed software to do HDR on raw files and found out a lot about raw formats.

I used to be quite happy with Lightroom stitches, but if LR doesn't work I use to go to Autopano pro, but in that case I use 16-bit TIFFs.

I don't see why you want to keep you workflow DNG for stitches, but I can feel some sympathy for the idea.

Best regards
Erik

Since LR can't seem to work well for me with any type of HDR pano merge where I have a lot of DR range, i.e. sunsets, see my previous post on this in LuLa.  I have found that exporting the HDR dng's to CC and merging there works fine, no issues with totally blown highlights.  However I can't figure out a way to get the dng back into LR.

Edit:  I used the wrong terms, I am selecting "edit in" dialog then selecting panorama in CC, this is not an export in the normal sense.  I want to come back from "editing in" CC and creating a correctly exposed HDR pano, and then allow that file to come back to LR. 

Is there not a way to save a file as a dng from adobe CC? and then re-export back to LR that dng? or a way to send the merge pano which is still a dng in CC back to LR?

LR/Adobe if you ever read this forum, you have a major screw up in how LR is handling high DR pano merges, which has be part of the logic in the exposure blend.  Basically ruins a great idea and limits the pano feature to much more basic exposure ranges.  And the fact that CC can take the same files on a direct export from LR and merge with no issues, tells me that problem is on the LR side.

For now, would just like a way to get the dng back into LR where I can finish it.  I realize I can make a duplicate layer in CC and use the camera raw filter, but I would rather go back to LR as I prefer LR's toolset over camera raw (yes there are a few differences in the tools ND filter for example).

Thanks

Paul C

[Paul2660]

Hi Paul,

I am not sure how "raw" DNG files from pano merge in LR are. Basically, I don't think Photoshop can work with raw images. It can open a raw image but it will always be converted to a demosaiced image.

I would say that Anders Torger may be able to comment on this. He developed software to do HDR on raw files and found out a lot about raw formats.

I used to be quite happy with Lightroom stitches, but if LR doesn't work I use to go to Autopano pro, but in that case I use 16-bit TIFFs.

I don't see why you want to keep you workflow DNG for stitches, but I can feel some sympathy for the idea.

Best regards
Erik

Hi Eric,

To my way of thinking, if you use the LR tools alot, which I do, keeping the image as dng (raw) is a huge advantage.  So my workflow has been to HDR in LR, which creates a HDR dng, then take those HDR dng's and create a pano.  I have documented in a previous post, that this process is in basically broken in LR as during the exposure blend, LR over exposes the images. 

My reason to to keep the pano as a dng is I feel that I can still work on the image in LR, using the adjustment brush, ND filter, color editor etc. which the image is still a dng (raw) which to my way of thinking gives me more malleability over the files as I am still raw.  Plus converting to tif via export then working ptgui or kolor or CC is more work at least to me. 

If LR would just fix this issue and not blow out the resulting images I could stay in LR.  Note LR 100% of the time displays the statement "this image appears to be damaged" whenever a HDR pano is created, so LR may not have intended for this to be done anyway, no way of knowing as there is really no one to ask at LR.  But I assumed that LR fully intended this process, but to me it was not fully tested (typical)

Paul C

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi Paul,

I also prefer a raw based workflow and I really appreciate the ability to make stitching in LR and keep the files in DNG.

On the other hand, I would suggest that a 16 bit TIFF file would be able to hold all the tonality information from the DNG.

Unfortunately, I would not expect Adobe to fix the issue you see. Maybe if you can report it in a very clear way. Software makers may time to time be more interested in creating new bugs than fixing old ones.

On the other hand, I have some hand in software engineering and I know that things can be hard to fix.

Best regards
Erik

Hi Eric,

To my way of thinking, if you use the LR tools alot, which I do, keeping the image as dng (raw) is a huge advantage.  So my workflow has been to HDR in LR, which creates a HDR dng, then take those HDR dng's and create a pano.  I have documented in a previous post, that this process is in basically broken in LR as during the exposure blend, LR over exposes the images. 

My reason to to keep the pano as a dng is I feel that I can still work on the image in LR, using the adjustment brush, ND filter, color editor etc. which the image is still a dng (raw) which to my way of thinking gives me more malleability over the files as I am still raw.  Plus converting to tif via export then working ptgui or kolor or CC is more work at least to me. 

If LR would just fix this issue and not blow out the resulting images I could stay in LR.  Note LR 100% of the time displays the statement "this image appears to be damaged" whenever a HDR pano is created, so LR may not have intended for this to be done anyway, no way of knowing as there is really no one to ask at LR.  But I assumed that LR fully intended this process, but to me it was not fully tested (typical)

Paul C

[Paul2660]

Eric, good points.

What surprises me, is HDR and Pano, the process has been around for a while, and Adobe should have plenty of benchmark files, it's like they don't test this stuff or put it out through enough testing.  In my other post, it's easy to see just how broken LR's process is.  And the same exact files work fine in CC, but as I pointed out in this post, you can't get back. 

http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=108063.0

The LR HDR process itself is broken also, as if you use the maximum de-ghosting, on a normal bracketed series, the end result pulls way too much noise into the resulting HDR, this only happens with de-ghosting set to max.  Unfortunately if you are working a sunset with clouds that have motion (common issue) you need the max de-ghost setting to get a good blend. 

Paul C

[fdisilvestro]

Hi,

There is no way unfortunately to reconvert to DNG in PS. Photoshop only works with rendered images, not raws. Even if you can have the dng as smart objects in PS and open then in ACR, they will not show any edit performed in PS. Your best option is to store them as Tiff (as Erik mentioned)

Note: Sorry for being pedantic, but I suppose you mean PS when you write CC (LR, PS are applications, CC is a version of a suite of applications)

I think you misunderstand the purpose of a DNG file. It is, in essence, a RAW file. In other words, it contains all the information that came from the camera. The format is NOT meant for storage of manipulated images. So, when you send an HDR or pano stack from LR to PS, then save the resulting image, it will be in TIFF format. And that is 100% fine for further manipulations in LR.

This is not quite correct, IMHO. DNG is a container that can store RAW with all the information from the camera but it is not the only purpose. You can convert most image files to DNG, including JPEG and TIFF, which will not make them RAW. If it makes sense or not is OT.

[Paul2660]

Sorry I was referring to Photoshop. Taking the edit in Photoshop option from LR  to create a pano. Most times LR cannot handle the HDR pano blends but moving the same dngs to Photoshop allows for a better exposed pano. Just wanted a way to get back from Photoshop to LR as a dng.

Paul C

[aduke]

Paul,

If it helps any, I just took a 8-bit per channel TIF into Photoshop, changed its mode to 32 bits per channel, saved it in a folder known to LR and synchronized that folder, then entered the develop module. All went very smoothly and I could make significant edits to the image.

Also, I saw that I could not save the 32-bit per channel file as a DNG, apparently PS does not have the capability.

It seems to me you can do what you would like to do, with just a small amount of extra effort.

Alan

[Denis de Gannes]

Sorry I was referring to Photoshop. Taking the edit in Photoshop option from LR  to create a pano. Most times LR cannot handle the HDR pano blends but moving the same dngs to Photoshop allows for a better exposed pano. Just wanted a way to get back from Photoshop to LR as a dng.

Paul C

The problem is with Photoshop's inability to save as DNG. Maybe you should post a request in the Adobe Feature Request and Bug fix Forum.

[Paul2660]

The problem is with Photoshop's inability to save as DNG. Maybe you should post a request in the Adobe Feature Request and Bug fix Forum.

Hello Dennis:

Can you send me a link to that forum?  you can PM if you like.  I have actually a few issues I would like to send them. 

Thanks
Paul C

[Denis de Gannes]

Hello Dennis:

Can you send me a link to that forum?  you can PM if you like.  I have actually a few issues I would like to send them. 

Thanks
Paul C

This is the link https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family

[Paul2660]

This is the link https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family

Thanks

Will follow up with them.

Paul C