Hasselblad H4D-40 price?

[Kicka78]

I just got an offer to buy a used Hasselblad H4D-40 camera (without lens)
what should this cost? The camera is almost not used and has only 1.500
clicks on the body/back... Any ideas?

Thanks!

[Chris Livsey]

I just got an offer to buy a used Hasselblad H4D-40 camera (without lens)
what should this cost? The camera is almost not used and has only 1.500
clicks on the body/back... Any ideas?

Thanks!

There would be several prices:
Chap I met in the bar who can get me one, no questions asked
Private sale from known person, no warranty
Auction site - Buy it now - good luck with that
General camera dealer with some warranty, perhaps
Specialised Hasselblad dealer warranty backed by dealership
Hasselblad secondhand store warranty usually 6 months from Hasselblad

None of these would command the same price IMHO
Prices also vary between countries and in Europe/UK sales tax may or may not be added on the sale depending on the tax scheme the dealer uses, business users can claim it back if it is added.
This is relevant as UK sales tax adds 20%.

[Kicka78]

This is from a private person (no dealer) and we live in Europe.

Thanks !

[siddhaarta]

ProShop Germany sells a used CPO (Certified Pre-Owned) H4-D 40 for 4000 EUR with 12 months guarantee.

Yours should cost less then.

[eronald]

Hassy have a transparent refurb price structure.

The price ceiling is effectively set by refurb guaranteed units marketed under the tag CPO by Hasselblad authorised dealers.
4000 Euro in Germany for an H4D40 - including tax, 12months Hasselblad warranty..

http://shop.fotopartner.de/epages/Fotopartner.sf/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/Fotopartner/Categories/Gebrauchtartikel/Hasselblad#.Vseg1zY1dSU

[torger]

Here in Europe VAT can be a big thing if you buy as a private person and can't deduct the tax. Private to private sale you don't need to pay VAT however (as it's already paid for when it was bought the first time new), which here in Sweden is as high as 25%, but 17-22% is more typical I guess.

Anyway buying pre-owned from dealers or a professional company-owned camera means there's that VAT on top. So a €4000 VAT-less private-to-private sale is considerable cheaper than a €4000+VAT.

H4D-40, what is it worth to you? I think €4000 private-to-private (no VAT on top) seems fair to both seller and buyer. The Hassy H cameras usually has lower second hand values than most other MFD gear, at least around here, I guess it's because they're pretty common in the pro segment and few enthusiasts have interest in them, simple supply-demand. The V backs are quite the opposite as there's a high interest in V system among enthusiasts, and the V backs are rare.

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

I would also say around 4K.

If you need wide angles you should consider the crop factor. You may en up needing an ultra wide and they don't come cheap.

Best regards
Erik

Here in Europe VAT can be a big thing if you buy as a private person and can't deduct the tax. Private to private sale you don't need to pay VAT however (as it's already paid for when it was bought the first time new), which here in Sweden is as high as 25%, but 17-22% is more typical I guess.

Anyway buying pre-owned from dealers or a professional company-owned camera means there's that VAT on top. So a €4000 VAT-less private-to-private sale is considerable cheaper than a €4000+VAT.

H4D-40, what is it worth to you? I think €4000 private-to-private (no VAT on top) seems fair to both seller and buyer. The Hassy H cameras usually has lower second hand values than most other MFD gear, at least around here, I guess it's because they're pretty common in the pro segment and few enthusiasts have interest in them, simple supply-demand. The V backs are quite the opposite as there's a high interest in V system among enthusiasts, and the V backs are rare.

[Chris Livsey]

If you need wide angles you should consider the crop factor. You may en up needing an ultra wide and they don't come cheap.

Best regards
Erik

I have yet to find any, working, HC lens cheap !! Thank goodness for the CF adapter clunky but workable.

Thanks to OP for filling in detail, in UK you are between a H4D31 £2,500 and a H4D50 £5,500 so around £4,000 looks right at dealers, personally with no warranty, and very low clicks is not necessarily good if camera has been idle for long periods, and no warranty I would start at £2,500 to £3,000 with a top of £3,400 expecting a spare battery/charger,strap thrown in which all cost to add. If your seller is ditching they won't need them if upgrading the trade in against a new H5D40 is £3,400, hence my top price.

Remember that there was a substantial price reduction in 2012 on these models so your seller may have had a good deal at the time and demand is low and falling, ring a dealer and ask what you would get for just selling it to them!!!!

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

The shortest CF lens is the 40/4 CF FLE, but it is pretty expensive. With 1.3X crop it would correspond to a 31 mm lens in 24x36 terms.

I guess that the CF adapter also costs ariund 1K€.

Expensive lenses is one of the reason I didn't go into the H-system.

Best regards
Erik

I have yet to find any, working, HC lens cheap !! Thank goodness for the CF adapter clunky but workable.

Thanks to OP for filling in detail, in UK you are between a H4D31 £2,500 and a H4D50 £5,500 so around £4,000 looks right at dealers, personally with no warranty, and very low clicks is not necessarily good if camera has been idle for long periods, and no warranty I would start at £2,500 to £3,000 with a top of £3,400 expecting a spare battery/charger,strap thrown in which all cost to add. If your seller is ditching they won't need them if upgrading the trade in against a new H5D40 is £3,400, hence my top price.

Remember that there was a substantial price reduction in 2012 on these models so your seller may have had a good deal at the time and demand is low and falling, ring a dealer and ask what you would get for just selling it to them!!!!

[eronald]

Torger, the German price INCLUDING VAT for a refurb H4D40 with HASSLEBLAD WARRANTY is Euro 4OOO.
http://shop.fotopartner.de/epages/Fotopartner.sf/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/Fotopartner/Categories/Gebrauchtartikel/Hasselblad#.Vseg1zY1dSU

If you pay the German VAT, you've paid it for anywhere in the EU.

If a company does the buying, I guess it will pay 20% less, roughly.
I would prefer to buy with a warranty

Private sales will probably be around 3K and that is why we don't see that many - many people prefer to keep their cameras.
On the other hand, if you have a spare H4D40, swapping it for a new A7R2 probably makes sense for many photographers.

Edmund

Here in Europe VAT can be a big thing if you buy as a private person and can't deduct the tax. Private to private sale you don't need to pay VAT however (as it's already paid for when it was bought the first time new), which here in Sweden is as high as 25%, but 17-22% is more typical I guess.

Anyway buying pre-owned from dealers or a professional company-owned camera means there's that VAT on top. So a €4000 VAT-less private-to-private sale is considerable cheaper than a €4000+VAT.

H4D-40, what is it worth to you? I think €4000 private-to-private (no VAT on top) seems fair to both seller and buyer. The Hassy H cameras usually has lower second hand values than most other MFD gear, at least around here, I guess it's because they're pretty common in the pro segment and few enthusiasts have interest in them, simple supply-demand. The V backs are quite the opposite as there's a high interest in V system among enthusiasts, and the V backs are rare.

[torger]

Thanks for the link, prices have indeed moved down in a quicker pace than I've noted. The lowest end systems can as you say disappear from the market as you just get too little from a sale.

[Chris Livsey]

Torger, the German price INCLUDING VAT for a refurb H4D40 with HASSLEBLAD WARRANTY is Euro 4OOO.
http://shop.fotopartner.de/epages/Fotopartner.sf/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/Fotopartner/Categories/Gebrauchtartikel/Hasselblad#.Vseg1zY1dSU
Edmund

If you convert to UK pounds  that's about £3,100 with a warranty and with VAT.
Until I picked up a Phase back I looked at that dealer frequently, always keenly priced I thought.
That's getting to the point where you can buy one and use it as a trade in against new and be on the right side.
Note though the "reduced price on new" offers don't then take the trade in off. "cannot be used in conjunction with any other discounts or promotions"

[eronald]

Thanks for the link, prices have indeed moved down in a quicker pace than I've noted. The lowest end systems can as you say disappear from the market as you just get too little from a sale.

I am seeing a strong uptick in local "private" really cheap offerings of naked Phase backs. I think these are not really stolen as in breakins, but stuff that was simply lying around in cupboards and which the owners or employees have appropriated to liberate some cash off the books. Once inventory has been written off for tax purposes, and employees have got shuffled, the scrap just floats around. My feeling is that by the end of this year, everyone who wants a P or P+ low end back will be able to find one on the private market for peanuts. Once the investment has been written off for tax purposes, nobody is going to be running round tracing serial numbers.

Edmund

[hasselbladfan]

H4D-40, what is it worth to you? I think €4000 private-to-private (no VAT on top) seems fair to both seller and buyer.

In reality, very few change hands at 4,000 euros. In most private cases, they prefer to keep them as a second body. Mint private ones, go more around 5,500-6,000 euros.

Good luck. It is a great camera.

[eronald]

In reality, very few change hands at 4,000 euros. In most private cases, they prefer to keep them as a second body. Mint private ones, go more around 5,500-6,000 euros.

Good luck. It is a great camera.

Hassy prices in Europe seem to be falling for some reason, and Hassy seems to be stuffing the channel with refurbs.
I like it, users get affordable MF cameras, Hassy gets revenue, market share, and lens sales, and dealers make sales.

For all we know, when the Hassies hit the price of a Sony or a Canon, we might get inundated with new users in this forum

In fact I am surprised that we don't see new users buy up the old tethered Phase and Hassy backs on eBay, for studio use; a tethered  studio system might be created for well under $1500 and be quite effective, especially since a large 4 or 5 year old Mac configuration can now be bought for peanuts, kitted out with a $100 SSD and tear through the files.

It's a bit sad for the original buyers who see their camera valued at 40% of original price, but then that is the usual effect of a price bubble collapsing. I think Hassy have given up the idea of being a high dealer-margin "brand" like Phase and Leica, and are going back to selling cameras via pro photo channels. The sub $10K price of the CFV back for the V system is another symptom of a saner price policy, and it seems to have substantially improved their cash flow, as well as allowing them to order more chips at lower prices from Sony.

Here btw is the US CPO list (warrantied refurbs) link:
http://hasselbladbron.com/cpo.pdf

Here is an UK price list. I'm not sure of warranties on this one.
http://procentre.co.uk/sales-secondhand-medium-format-digital.php

It is highly interesting that none of the usually vocal and very competent Phase dealers has volunteered to meet these prices ...

Edmund

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

Mr. Oosten said in the LuLa interview that they are selling a lot of CFV backs, selling all they can make.

I would also think that Hasselblad aims for a different business model from Phase One.

For me, personally, the 50 MP CMOS backs are to little and to late.

Best regards
Erik

Hassy prices in Europe seem to be falling for some reason, and Hassy seems to be stuffing the channel with refurbs.
I like it, users get affordable MF cameras, Hassy gets revenue, market share, and lens sales, and dealers make sales.

For all we know, when the Hassies hit the price of a Sony or a Canon, we might get inundated with new users in this forum

In fact I am surprised that we don't see new users buy up the old tethered Phase and Hassy backs on eBay, for studio use; a tethered  studio system might be created for well under $1500 and be quite effective, especially since a large 4 or 5 year old Mac configuration can now be bought for peanuts, kitted out with a $100 SSD and tear through the files.

It's a bit sad for the original buyers who see their camera valued at 40% of original price, but then that is the usual effect of a price bubble collapsing. I think Hassy have given up the idea of being a high dealer-margin "brand" like Phase and Leica, and are going back to selling cameras via pro photo channels. The sub $10K price of the CFV back for the V system is another symptom of a saner price policy, and it seems to have substantially improved their cash flow, as well as allowing them to order more chips at lower prices from Sony.

Here btw is the US CPO list (warrantied refurbs) link:
http://hasselbladbron.com/cpo.pdf

Here is an UK price list. I'm not sure of warranties on this one.
http://procentre.co.uk/sales-secondhand-medium-format-digital.php

It is highly interesting that none of the usually vocal and very competent Phase dealers has volunteered to meet these prices ...

Edmund

[Theodoros]

For me, personally, the 50 MP CMOS backs are to little and to late.

Best regards
Erik

"Too little" is related with lenses, with 24mm lenses for MF around, nothing is too little... "Too late" is related with what was existing before, I believe the 50mp Cmos sensor dominates the MF sales for reasons that didn't exist before.... (LV, High ISO and some more).

IMO, one is more likely to get better IQ out of a 44x33mm sensor that from a 54x40.5 one and additionally more likely to have a faster system with shallower DOF, reason being the edge performance of lenses which is cropped off by using a smaller sensor. That said, MO is that 49x37 sensor size is ideal for MF use as it both crops off the part of the lens that is better avoided and provides an ultra wide AOV even for the most demanding situations with a 24mm lens...

I'm extremely happy with the size of my 49x37mm sensor after I found a solution for using a very sharp and fully dedicated (with full aperture metering and all modes compatibility) 24mm lens on my Contax 645.

[eronald]

"Too little" is related with lenses, with 24mm lenses for MF around, nothing is too little... "Too late" is related with what was existing before, I believe the 50mp Cmos sensor dominates the MF sales for reasons that didn't exist before.... (LV, High ISO and some more).

IMO, one is more likely to get better IQ out of a 44x33mm sensor that from a 54x40.5 one and additionally more likely to have a faster system with shallower DOF, reason being the edge performance of lenses which is cropped off by using a smaller sensor. That said, MO is that 49x37 sensor size is ideal for MF use as it both crops off the part of the lens that is better avoided and provides an ultra wide AOV even for the most demanding situations with a 24mm lens...

I'm extremely happy with the size of my 49x37mm sensor after I found a solution for using a very sharp and fully dedicated (with full aperture metering and all modes compatibility) 24mm lens on my Contax 645.

How?

e.

[Theodoros]

How?

e.

 I presume you are asking about the 24mm lens with full dedication for the Contax 645? (which is fully compatible with Leica S too via the Leica S adapter)

There are 3 24mm lenses one can convert for use with the Contax 645... (that will fit physically) 1. The Samyang 24mm f3.5 2. The Pentax 645 25mm f4 and 3. The Nikkor 24mm f3.5 PC-E ...
The Samyang offers the wider image circle among them all (it will cover even a 54x40.5 image circle easily), it's easy to convert but its IQ is not acceptable until its closed to f8 and then its not as sharp as the others... Additionally it will only work stopped down.

The Pentax is the easiest to convert as there is no conversion involved with the lens and it requires for one to make an adapter of 6.7mm width, which will have an aperture ring on it and then, link mechanically the aperture ring to the lever that controls the aperture on the lens mount... The lens is sharp, but again it can only meter stopped down and is very expensive.

The Nikkor 24mm f3.5 is as easy to (physically) convert as the Samyang, it requires to remove the rear part of the lens (very easy to do) that has the mechanisms for shift and tilt and make a "tube" instead that extends from the aperture ring to the Contax mount (same with the Samyang) which needs to be 17.5mm shorter than the ordinal lens length. Fortunately, (on both the Nikkor and and the Samyang - unfortunately the Canon 24mm T-S cannot be converted physically) the rear element when the lens is focused to infinity (its longest extension) is recessed enough inside the lens body and thus it leaves another 4.4mm before it messes with the Contax mirror... Now that ends the physical part... (which is by far the easier).
Then, one has to rehouse all the electronics of the original lens back inside the new lens rear "tube" but add a small PC board that will convert the lens interface from Nikon E to Contax 645...

After this you are done! The lens will work just like if it was a genuine Contax 645 lens, with full interface communication and focus confirmation but no AF of course (only because there is no AF motor on the original lens, if there was, this would also work), but with a 24mm lens who cares for AF anyway?
The Nikkor has smaller image circle than the Samyang as it projects heavy vignetting on a 54x40.5 sensor, but it covers the 49x37mm sensor very well (about 2.5 stops of (correctable) vignetting at the last mm of the furthest corners), it is the sharpest out of all (sharper than the Canon 24mm TS too), it is even extremely sharp at f3.5 but to the edges which are still usable wide open, it is very sharp across the frame from f 5.6 up to f16 (with a 6.8 μm pixel size - f11 with smaller), it is the most flare resistant out of all, distortion is very small and only has some chromatic aberrations which (as well as the small distortion) are easily and automatically correctable when processing (by one choosing the automatic lens profile in LR).

If somebody wants to have his lens converted for Contax (or Leica) don't hesitate to contact me... You only have to buy a S/H 24mm f3.5 PCE Nikkor lens and I'll do the rest for you.

[eronald]

ah. thx.

Edmund

I presume you are asking about the 24mm lens with full dedication for the Contax 645? (which is fully compatible with Leica S too via the Leica S adapter)

There are 3 24mm lenses one can convert for use with the Contax 645... (that will fit physically) 1. The Samyang 24mm f3.5 2. The Pentax 645 25mm f4 and 3. The Nikkor 24mm f3.5 PC-E ...
The Samyang offers the wider image circle among them all (it will cover even a 54x40.5 image circle easily), it's easy to convert but its IQ is not acceptable until its closed to f8 and then its not as sharp as the others... Additionally it will only work stopped down.

The Pentax is the easiest to convert as there is no conversion involved with the lens and it requires for one to make an adapter of 6.7mm width, which will have an aperture ring on it and then, link mechanically the aperture ring to the lever that controls the aperture on the lens mount... The lens is sharp, but again it can only meter stopped down and is very expensive.

The Nikkor 24mm f3.5 is as easy to (physically) convert as the Samyang, it requires to remove the rear part of the lens (very easy to do) that has the mechanisms for shift and tilt and make a "tube" instead that extends from the aperture ring to the Contax mount (same with the Samyang) which needs to be 17.5mm shorter than the ordinal lens length. Fortunately, (on both the Nikkor and and the Samyang - unfortunately the Canon 24mm T-S cannot be converted physically) the rear element when the lens is focused to infinity (its longest extension) is recessed enough inside the lens body and thus it leaves another 4.4mm before it messes with the Contax mirror... Now that ends the physical part... (which is by far the easier).
Then, one has to rehouse all the electronics of the original lens back inside the new lens rear "tube" but add a small PC board that will convert the lens interface from Nikon E to Contax 645...

After this you are done! The lens will work just like if it was a genuine Contax 645 lens, with full interface communication and focus confirmation but no AF of course (only because there is no AF motor on the original lens, if there was, this would also work), but with a 24mm lens who cares for AF anyway?
The Nikkor has smaller image circle than the Samyang as it projects heavy vignetting on a 54x40.5 sensor, but it covers the 49x37mm sensor very well (about 2.5 stops of (correctable) vignetting at the last mm of the furthest corners), it is the sharpest out of all (sharper than the Canon 24mm TS too), it is even extremely sharp at f3.5 but to the edges which are still usable wide open, it is very sharp across the frame from f 5.6 up to f16 (with a 6.8 μm pixel size - f11 with smaller), it is the most flare resistant out of all, distortion is very small and only has some chromatic aberrations which (as well as the small distortion) are easily and automatically correctable when processing (by one choosing the automatic lens profile in LR).

If somebody wants to have his lens converted for Contax (or Leica) don't hesitate to contact me... You only have to buy a S/H 24mm f3.5 PCE Nikkor lens and I'll do the rest for you.