Why use backups if you clone hard drives

[HSakols]

Excuse me if this is a silly question.  To backup my work I run SuperDuper and clone my external drives.  If I'm doing that why ever choose to backup when prompted by Lightroom? 

[nvw]

Lightroom's backup only backs up the LR catalog, not your photos. SuperDuper ought to be backing up all your LR folders and the files within.

[howardm]

I believe the 'win' for LR's backup is that it does sanity checking on the database file whereas obviously SD does not.

Given the importance of the database file and ease of corruption, I'll take the few moments to be even more sure that it's intact.

[Ken Bennett]

I believe the 'win' for LR's backup is that it does sanity checking on the database file whereas obviously SD does not.

Given the importance of the database file and ease of corruption, I'll take the few moments to be even more sure that it's intact.

Yeah, this. The Lightroom backup creates a copy of your database and checks it for problems. This backup database is then also backed up to your SuperDuper backup.

The one thing to keep in mind is that the LR backup takes up as much room as your whole database file, which can be fairly large. I delete the backups every once in a while, just keeping the last few.

[HSakols]

Thanks for the replies. So do you run a Lightroom backup and store it on the same disc?  I mean when your done you have your catalog and backup all on the same drive and then you just clone your drives? 

[JeanMichel]

On a Mac. Your LR catalog is most likely to be stored in your main drive in the Picture folder (Pictures/Lightroom); the LR catalog backups are most likely stored n the same 'Picture' folder (Pictures/Lightroom/Backup). As mentioned by others, the LR backup is only for the catalog, it does not backup your image files. So, yes, backup the LR catalog when prompted, or as often as you wish; then backup the drive where it resides and all other drives you may have with files.
Jean-Michel

[Ken Bennett]

Thanks for the replies. So do you run a Lightroom backup and store it on the same disc?  I mean when your done you have your catalog and backup all on the same drive and then you just clone your drives?

Yes, and I also keep a Time Machine backup disk which runs every hour. After an important shoot, I will edit all my photos, import them to LR, process them, export the finished files, then run a LR backup, force a Time Machine backup, then finally move the original raw files to my server. This ensures that I don't lose much work if my computer crashes, and in fact this saved me a lot of pain yesterday afternoon when the new SSD internal in my laptop died. I did lose some LR work, but had a backup from earlier in the day, rather than from last week.

[Stan Bax]

Additionally it's very good policy to keep a cloud service and/or off-site backup of your home server or NAS, this can be very useful in case of fire or a major damage event at your house. My NAS backs up to the cloud daily, off-site copies once a month.

[Denis de Gannes]

Yeah, this. The Lightroom backup creates a copy of your database and checks it for problems. This backup database is then also backed up to your SuperDuper backup.

The one thing to keep in mind is that the LR backup takes up as much room as your whole database file, which can be fairly large. I delete the backups every once in a while, just keeping the last few.

Actually this would have been the case with earlier versions of Lightroom. The latest version Lightroom CC 2015/ LR 6 do a good job of zipping the backup file. e.g My existing Catalog File is 501.6 MB and the Backup is only 57.6 MB.
See the following for the changes introduced in Lightroom CC/ LR6.

http://www.lightroomqueen.com/whats-new-lightroom-cc-6-0/

[BobShaw]

Something may backup your catalogue and it may backup your image files, but does it back up your operating system, your printers, your configurations, your accounts package, your life's documents, your family tree etc.
Why only backup a little maybe when it is far easier to back up everything?

> Why use backups if you clone hard drives
1. A clone takes ages, so you aren't going to do it all the time. It will not be current. A backup usually takes a few minutes after the initial one, so you can do it every day. TimeMachine by default does it every hour, but every day I find is enough. Also cloning is really hard on the data drive, so you are actually contributing to its demise.
2. A clone can't restore your computer easily. You would have to spend a long time dragging things around. A backup you tell to restore and it does it.
3. If the computer dies, a clone can't restore onto another computer. All the hardware will be wrong. If you bought exactly the same hardware then it checks the internal numbers so it won't work.
4. You can't rebuild a new drive from a clone of an old drive. The computer will see it as a new drive. This is actually a problem for backups also, but less so in my experience. You really need to have the catalogue and data on the same drive.
5. If you buy a new computer then you just restore a backup onto the new computer and everything is the same. Users, settings etc. You can even restore the same computer to multiple computers. iMac, MBP etc all the same.

[Ken Bennett]

Actually this would have been the case with earlier versions of Lightroom. The latest version Lightroom CC 2015/ LR 6 do a good job of zipping the backup file. e.g My existing Catalog File is 501.6 MB and the Backup is only 57.6 MB.

Well, I just checked and this is awesome. My backup is only 120MB, the catalog is 1.1GB. Great news, thanks!

[HSakols]

Thanks! I was unaware that the backup was a much smaller zipped file.  Unfortunately, my bandwidth is so slow that I cannot consider a cloud server.  Last night I ran Super Duper and was able to clone a drive using "smart updates" in about 15 min.  I used to use Time Machine to backup my desktop computer and Super Duper for cloning external drives. I got tired of it running in the background.  However, I do see the advantage of using Time Machine to more easily locate something just lost.  No, I have not considered the pit falls of clones.  At this point My Main Image Catalog and Photos are kept on an external drive with Thunderbolt.  At times I will begin a project on my laptop's SSD and then import the new catalog into my Main Catalog.  It sounds like it is prudent to run the lightroom backups as well as frequent clone updates.  I try to avoid keeping my lightroom files in the pictures but prefer keeping a lightroom backups folder. 

[BobShaw]

I used to use Time Machine to backup my desktop computer and Super Duper for cloning external drives.

I hope that you realise that TimeMachine backups up external drives also. You just have to open the options and tell it to.

[davidedric]

Whether or not you write to .xmp also makes a difference.  If you don't, then once your images are securely backed up, that's it - nothing will change.  Of course,, you have to be extra careful with your catalogue.

FWIW my catalogue is on ssd, back-up to internal mirrored hdd's, periodic manual back up to external hdd, and backed up to cloud via CrashPlan.
Images on mirrored hdd's, each shoot backed up to external hdd, and again to CrashPlan.

Dave

[John Caldwell]

Actually this would have been the case with earlier versions of Lightroom. The latest version Lightroom CC 2015/ LR 6 do a good job of zipping the backup file...

Thanks for mentioning this, and the discussion reminds me of something I should probably give more thought to.

Does this zip process occur automatically during the LR CC Catalog Backup process? Since my main catalog is 32GB in size, I have not been backing up the catalog with LR, but have been cloning my external drive that contains both Catalog and Image files. This has been my habit since LR1, and I've not been stung by the habit, but I'm always a little uneasy that I'd fail to recognize a corrupt catalog, and clone that to my two backup drives. I know many users maintain Catalog and Preview files on their OS drives, and image files on a separate drive, so my approach won't work for them.

How long do you suppose LR CC would stake to Backup a 32GB catalog?

Many thanks,

John Caldwell

[Denis de Gannes]

Yes John, the zip will happen automatically. With that size Catalog file you must have close to 500,000 image files. The process can also test the integrity of the Catalog and Optimise the Catalog. This will help performance. See the screen capture.
I am not sure how long it will take since my Catalog is a lot smaller.

[John Caldwell]

Yes John, the zip will happen automatically. With that size Catalog file you must have close to 500,000 image files. The process can also test the integrity of the Catalog and Optimise the Catalog. This will help performance. See the screen capture.
I am not sure how long it will take since my Catalog is a lot smaller.

Only 200,000 images in this 32GB catalog. Wonder why the Cat file is so big. Thanks, Dennis.

John-

[JeanMichel]

Only 200,000 images in this 32GB catalog. Wonder why the Cat file is so big. Thanks, Dennis.

John-

Are you sure that you are looking at Lightroom Catalog.lrcat and not at Lightroom Catalog Previews.lrdata ? LR backs up the .lrcat, not the .lrdata. I suspect that your .lcat is under 3 GB.

Jean-Michel

[John Caldwell]

Are you sure that you are looking at Lightroom Catalog.lrcat and not at Lightroom Catalog Previews.lrdata ? LR backs up the .lrcat, not the .lrdata. I suspect that your .lcat is under 3 GB.

Jean-Michel

My catalog is 32GB, while the Previews file is 158GB. The image count is 198,000. The catalog file seems large in comparison to what others are discussing. Welcoming any and all insights.

Thank you,

John Caldwell

[JeanMichel]

Someone else may know more about this than I, however: is it possible that you are generating "smart previews", or even just 1:1 rather than standard? Smart previews would be fairly large and could explain the size of the previews data file. I have no idea why your lrcat is so large. My 120,000 images catalog is 1.8 gb, previews file is 24 gb or so. I hope that someone more knowledgeable comes up with an answer to your situation.
Jean-Michel