Capture One, Photoshop and Plugins

[myotis]

As someone who is still trying to find their feet in post processing, but now settled on C1 as my core program, I wonder if you could share some thoughts on how your C1 workflow interacts with other programs/plugins and whether you think this might change in the future.

Each new release of C1 seems to add capability, and I wondered when people felt the need to move their file into something else. Currently, I am trying to do as much as possible in C1.

So the questions I appreciate some thoughts on, are:

1. When does it makes sense to stop "trying" to do something in C1 and move onto a different program or Plugin. It seems that many people seem move to PS fairly quickly, while others will try and do as much they can in C1.  So, what triggers you moving your file out of C1 and into PS. Could you do more in C1, but move to PS simply because you are more used to doing things in PS, or have you reached some unavoidable limitation in C1.

2. Photoshop often seems to be simply used an interface to Plugins, not always of course. So once in PS, what is that gets done there, and is it primarily to use a Plugin. If so, what are the important plugins, or PS features you use. For example, I find I struggle with high iso noise in C1, so either use DXO instead, or use Topaz Denoise, but that could well be my lack of expertise in C1.

3. I also wonder whether, with both OnOne and Topaz photofxlab giving interfaces that give access to all their plugins through a single interface, including layers, that can be launched directly from C1, whether photoshop in some circumstances could be dropped all together.

I realise this is a very open question, but I would it would be extremely useful to hear what people have to say. To a certain extent it will help determine where I direct my learning effort.

Many thanks,

Graham

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

So the questions I appreciate some thoughts on, are:

1. When does it makes sense to stop "trying" to do something in C1 and move onto a different program or Plugin. It seems that many people seem move to PS fairly quickly, while others will try and do as much they can in C1.  So, what triggers you moving your file out of C1 and into PS. Could you do more in C1, but move to PS simply because you are more used to doing things in PS, or have you reached some unavoidable limitation in C1.

Hi Graham,

Especially with the added features of C1 version 9, I also notice that I do less and less work in Photoshop, and more in C1P, except for when I need to do extensive retouching or masking and compositing. Plugins that I like very much (mostly from Topaz Labs) can be called from C1, either via their free Fusion Express application or via Topaz photoFXlabs if I need to do more layered work for final output. Its only drawback is that the layers cannot be saved, so its primarily to produce a final version.

2. Photoshop often seems to be simply used an interface to Plugins, not always of course. So once in PS, what is that gets done there, and is it primarily to use a Plugin. If so, what are the important plugins, or PS features you use. For example, I find I struggle with high iso noise in C1, so either use DXO instead, or use Topaz Denoise, but that could well be my lack of expertise in C1.

My main plugins are Topaz 'Clarity/Detail/Infocus' because they really make a difference and preserve a natural color/saturation despite contrast and brightness adjustments, and apply their effects halo free (so there needs to be no second thoughts, just creative adjustments get through). For Capture sharpening I mainly use 'FocusMagic' for its quality and low sensitivity to artifact creation, but occasionally use 'Infocus' if that might do a better job. With the recent addition of 'Topaz Impression' and especially 'Texture Effects', which also work as stand-alone applications, there is even less that Photoshop can add.

3. I also wonder whether, with both OnOne and Topaz photofxlab giving interfaces that give access to all their plugins through a single interface, including layers, that can be launched directly from C1, whether photoshop in some circumstances could be dropped all together.

The only issue is that they may not save the individual layers. Don't know about onOne, but Topaz should add that to photoFXlabs, although they may go another direction. I've seen more and more capability to composite images in the dedicated plugins themselves, e.g. 'Remask' allows to mask an image and combine it with another image as background. Only more complex tasks need to be brought into Photoshop.

I realise this is a very open question, but I would it would be extremely useful to hear what people have to say. To a certain extent it will help determine where I direct my learning effort.

Yes, workflows differ for different purposes. So a lot depends on what one finally does with the images.

There are two things I currently miss most in Capture One Pro, besides some general improvements. First is an improved sharpening functionality, for both Capture and Output sharpening, and second is more layers functionality even for compositing multiple images and a Blend-If functionality would be very welcome in that case. There are other things that can/need to be improved as well, but those two would be the main ones that add real workflow functionality for me, YMMV.

It may be hard for C1 to achieve the specialized quality that some plug-ins have to offer, but C1 is on the right track, as far as I'm concerned, so plugin integration might be something to consider instead of re-inventing the wheel (unless its a better one). So Photoshop gets less important to produce a final product/image as time goes by, unless one has to deal with very complex compositing jobs or has to collaborate in teams.

Cheers,
Bart

[myotis]

Thanks Bart,

Your comments are extremely useful, and exactly the sort of advice I was hoping for.

I will have a renewed look at the plugins you mention. I have the Topaz suite from a special offer, but I don't have the more recent plugins, so I will have a look at them as well. My skills with Photoshop are fairly rudimentary, but it seems from what you have said, that for now at least, I can probably get away with focussing on building my C1 expertise and then use a couple of plugins to fill the gaps. It will be interesting to see what others have to say.

I confess that I find the range of topaz plugins and apparent overlap of features to be a bit confusing.

Cheers,
Graham

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

I confess that I find the range of topaz plugins and apparent overlap of features to be a bit confusing.

I can understand that, but it's partly due to their business model; purchase once, free upgrades for life. That means that they need to keep producing new plugins to attract new customers.

Fortunately, with the new plugins also comes new functionality, and some have pretty good functionality or real improvements over previous versions, although some plugins have a bit of an Instagram type of functionality (some even have a 'I feel lucky' kind of Random settings button) if one only uses the presets.

But the underlying technology is quite good, one just needs to decide ahead of time what the goal is that one needs to work towards, and which tool is best for that.

Sofar, 'Clarity' does magic for how (local) Contrast is rendered, and 'Detail' does wonders on structural detail. Both are very important for rendering images that have a tangible feeling to them. Sharpening is always important, although their 'Infocus' plugin could use some upgrades in functionality. Those are the plugins I'd concentrate one.

The 'Denoise' plugin does a good job on most images, as long as one doesn't try to remove all noise from high ISO shots. Besides, a bit of residual noise rarely hurts. The Remask plugin/application is quite good as well for masking/extracting subjects/targeted processing.

The recent 'Texture Effects' is very capable for adding effects, textures, borders, etc., if that's what one wishes to do. It also shows the latest insights in Topaz Labs' approach to a user interface for multi-layered effects, quite effective and it reduces clutter in the interface (which is hard with a gazillion controls). They've also added the possibility to use one's own textures/borders/grunge/light-leaks/what-have-you effects, or share settings with an on-line community. That should help their revenue stream I'd think, but it's also very effective productivity tool if such effects are needed on a regular basis (and much easier than Photoshop for most users).

Even their 'Impression' plugin/application does a decent job in mimicking painted/sketched versions of photographs, and it's very fast compared to alternatives like Corel Painter (although that allows even more control for artists with real drawing skills). Impression could use some more user control over the brush types and application of them, but there are lots to choose from already.

But they also have specialized plugins for specialized tasks (e.g. DeJPEG to improve JPEG input before post-processing it further), not too much functionality overlap with other plugins there.

Just make sure you know what you want to achieve before choosing the tools. The tools are merely a way to achieve the artistic intent with which it all starts, and do it in an effective/productive manner.

Cheers,
Bart

[myotis]

Just make sure you know what you want to achieve before choosing the tools. The tools are merely a way to achieve the artistic intent with which it all starts, and do it in an effective/productive manner.

I think my needs are fairly simple. I would like better noise management, and crisper images than I can currently get from C1.  It seems fairly common for even people who know PS really well, to turn to something like Nik Effex to get that extra "pop" from an image. And I suspect this is all I am looking for - though not too much of a "pop", some images feel more like an "explosion" than a "pop" to me.

Noise with small sensors or/and high iso seems to make this more difficult to achieve so noise control is important, and the other part of this seems to be a combination of contrast and sharpness. So I think the plugins you mention clarity, detail and infocus plus denoise are probably the ones I want.

Not really interested in the more artistic plugins, as I am bit old fashioned about these things for my own photographs and just want a good old fashioned sharp, grain free print with good tonal and colour gradation.

Cheers,
Graham