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Author Topic: BW Printing and ICC profiles... why use a profile...  (Read 7136 times)

DavidPalermo

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BW Printing and ICC profiles... why use a profile...
« on: February 14, 2016, 02:52:56 pm »

I print in BW and I use Epson's Advanced BW controls and no ICC profile.  I get excellent results! 

I am wondering why anyone would want to use an ICC profile when printing to BW other than to tint an image.  In Jeff Schewe's excellent book on printing he describes using an ICC profile for proofing which is a good way to see on screen what the BW print may look like on certain papers but other than that I don't see what advantage a profile will give when actually printing except like I mentioned earlier for tinting (which you can also do in the ABW control though you won't see it until you view the print).
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: BW Printing and ICC profiles... why use a profile...
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2016, 03:26:56 am »

I print in BW and I use Epson's Advanced BW controls and no ICC profile.  I get excellent results! 

I am wondering why anyone would want to use an ICC profile when printing to BW other than to tint an image.  In Jeff Schewe's excellent book on printing he describes using an ICC profile for proofing which is a good way to see on screen what the BW print may look like on certain papers but other than that I don't see what advantage a profile will give when actually printing except like I mentioned earlier for tinting (which you can also do in the ABW control though you won't see it until you view the print).

Not all printers deliver a perceptually perfect B&W tonerange, even in ABW driver mode. A custom profile can help then or give a tone range that suits the user more.

Ernst, op de lei getypt.
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: BW Printing and ICC profiles... why use a profile...
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2016, 07:25:40 am »

Ernst is correct and there are a number of Internet posts that describe this and how to prepare a profile for the ABW driver.  Unfortunately, you can only use such profiles with the Windows OS as several years ago Mac OS discontinued support for this approach.  Roy Harrington's QTR software set has a tool to do this.  Even if you are not using the ABW driver you can prepare a regular ICC profile that incorporates extra B/W patches to help make the B/W steps more linear.  I routinely us an extra 51 patches when I do profiles for personal use.
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JRSmit

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Re: BW Printing and ICC profiles... why use a profile...
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2016, 10:06:53 am »

Ernst is correct and there are a number of Internet posts that describe this and how to prepare a profile for the ABW driver.  Unfortunately, you can only use such profiles with the Windows OS as several years ago Mac OS discontinued support for this approach.  Roy Harrington's QTR software set has a tool to do this.  Even if you are not using the ABW driver you can prepare a regular ICC profile that incorporates extra B/W patches to help make the B/W steps more linear.  I routinely us an extra 51 patches when I do profiles for personal use.
The QTR tools only provide a more linear Luminance curve, no corrections in the a and b directions. The Dmax difference compared to regular ICC is not something worthwhile to accept the lack of corrections in the a and b dimensions.
See my blog post: https://www.fineartprintingspecialist.nl/fine-art-print/adembenemend-mooi-fine-art-zwart-wit/ . It is in Dutch but the images speak for themselves.
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Paul Roark

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Re: BW Printing and ICC profiles... why use a profile...
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2016, 11:18:32 am »

When used with ABW driver settings, QTR's "Create ICC-RGB" is limited to Lab L "linearization" (actually making the workflow "color managed" so that the Lab L distribution matches a calibrated monitor).  Note that the driver settings must be exactly the same as they were when the ICC was made for the ICC to work correctly. 

However, if you use the full QTR rip, you can get excellent control of Lab A and B.  It is ABW that is the more limited approach in this regard.  The major problem I've seen with QTR and full LM and LC control is that getting the color balance right across the field is difficult.  That's one reason I prefer a dedicated B&W approach that, when printing a neutral image, fixes the Lab A at about the paper white via pre-mixing the colors into a single toner.  That allows full Lab B control that is very easy, even with the Epson driver.  See for example http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Eboni-Variable-Tone.pdf .  I have set up systems like this for many Epson printers, from a WorkForce to the 9800.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
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DavidPalermo

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Re: BW Printing and ICC profiles... why use a profile...
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2016, 11:36:58 am »

Thank you all for your replies.

I am using a Macintosh computer and Epson 3800 printer. I pretty much only print BW images. If I use a custom ICC profile I'll need to invest in some fairly expensive tools to create the profiles.  If I can get a noticeable better tonal range, deeper blacks etc I would invest in making y own profiles.  I just don't know yet.

My other concern is metamarism. I'm assuming ICC profiles would use some of the color inks even though I'm printing BW?  If so won't that produce metamarism under some lighting conditions?  I want as neutral a print as I can make.

Thanks!
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digitaldog

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Re: BW Printing and ICC profiles... why use a profile...
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2016, 12:22:04 pm »

My other concern is metamarism. I'm assuming ICC profiles would use some of the color inks even though I'm printing BW?  If so won't that produce metamarism under some lighting conditions?  I want as neutral a print as I can make.
First off, if you're on a Mac and happy with ABW, stick with it. Especially if you want dead nuts neutral prints. Less ink used, more 'archival' (lightfast), simple.
As to Metamerism, you do want that, it's a very good attribute!  ;D

Metamerism is simple: two (2) samples with different spectra compared to each other with a given set of viewing conditions, produce a match. Metamerism only applies to two color patches when they are compared. It is not correct to refer to one color from a given ink or paper and say that it suffers from metamerism. A "meterameric pair of color patches" means that they appear to match under a given illuminate. However, they may not appear to match under another illuminate. Metamers ("metameric stimuli") by definition are two different spectrums that appear to be the same color. If they don't look the same color, they are not metamers.


If you are viewing a print (lots of colors) and within differing viewing conditions, and there is a mismatch, this could be called a metameric mismatch or metameric failure. But its not metamerism. One sample (the print) compared to itself in differing viewing conditions, the proper term would be when they appear to match is color constancy and when they don't, color inconstancy.


The lack of a defined term for the metameric mismatch is the problem.
"Metameric failure" is the best so far because it is unambiguous.
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Paul Roark

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Re: BW Printing and ICC profiles... why use a profile...
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2016, 12:47:09 pm »

...
I am using a Macintosh computer and Epson 3800 printer. I pretty much only print BW images. ...

My other concern is metamarism. ...


As a B&W photographer, I prefer getting better results at a fraction of the cost. 
See http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/3880-Eboni-Variable-Tone.pdf

Carbon is by far our most lightfast pigment, and it has a very even, though somewhat warm, spectral response.  Color inconstancy or what photographers most often call metamerism problems are caused by the high gamut color inks.  For B&W, if we want neutral, we need to use some color to offset the warm carbon, but the goal is to have as little as possible in the image for both lightfastness and color constancy issues.  Printing a just slightly warm 100% carbon pigment print is also very possible.

For B&W photographers, there really are ways to reduce ink costs to the point that they are simply irrelevant, and the prints made will be better than the OEM approaches.

FWIW

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
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DavidPalermo

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Re: BW Printing and ICC profiles... why use a profile...
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2016, 04:11:20 pm »

Digitaldog: maybe metamerism isn't the right word. I don't want to make a print with a slight green tone or other color. In the old days I'd see a lot of that. I want my inkjet prints to be as neutral looking as my old silver prints.  I like a "warm" look but only if the paper inherently is a warm paper (like Ilford Gold Cotton Smooth matte paper or Epson Hot Press Natural. Both beautiful papers. I'm getting neutral prints now but was concerned about metamerism if color inks were introduced into my prints.

If I can get better tonal range I'd be very interested!  It sounds like I can with carbon inks but I'm not ready to do that yet. It sounds a bit complex at this point and I love printing through Lightroom and Epsons ABW driver on Macintosh. If the results are radically more beautiful using carbon inks I'd definitely keep that plan in my future!

Good information here!  That's why I paid the hefty $12/year membership fee to be a part of this community. (Ok and Schewe is a friend and occasionally has good info to contribute! - just kidding Jeff!)
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digitaldog

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Re: BW Printing and ICC profiles... why use a profile...
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2016, 04:15:18 pm »

Digitaldog: maybe metamerism isn't the right word. I don't want to make a print with a slight green tone or other color.
Understood. I'd stick with ABW. Getting a dead nuts neutral print is difficult with even the best ICC Profile over the entire tonal scale.
Better tonal scale with a profile? Maybe, but I'd suspect unlikely IF you use the same Epson driver with the profile. It's not all that linear, a profile can't 'fix that'. Now a substitute driver, like ImagePrint, very possible.
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DavidPalermo

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Re: BW Printing and ICC profiles... why use a profile...
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2016, 07:56:49 pm »

"I'd stick with ABW. Getting a dead nuts neutral print is difficult with even the best ICC Profile over the entire tonal scale. "

Yeah, maybe when I retire my 3800 and buy a new printer (P800?) I will give the 3800 a try for Carbon inks.
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: BW Printing and ICC profiles... why use a profile...
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2016, 05:09:14 am »

Understood. I'd stick with ABW. Getting a dead nuts neutral print is difficult with even the best ICC Profile over the entire tonal scale.
Better tonal scale with a profile? Maybe, but I'd suspect unlikely IF you use the same Epson driver with the profile. It's not all that linear, a profile can't 'fix that'. Now a substitute driver, like ImagePrint, very possible.

Andrew,

Maybe I did not understand the OP's original question correctly but when I replied first I had a B&W driver mode + QTR "ICC" profile in mind. I use that for my HP printers' B&W mode which can be compared with Epson ABW though the HP Zs I use have no color ink in any mix when neutral RGB or Greyscale is printed. At least in the creation of the QTR profile you get the information whether there are deviations on the tone range and repeating the target print with the new profile applied shows that it is better or not in the new measurements curve. All printing from Qimage Ultimate in a Windows OS, both securing a proper profile creation + profile use. Another advantage of the Zs is the calibration step possible before that process and the calibrations later on to keep the base correct. That  feature gives also consistency in B&W printing of a color toned image using the normal driver color mode and normal ICC profiling, the Zs will use minimal color ink then as well. I prefer that for color toned B&W images as the color toning in the B&W driver requires other settings to be archived for repeats and another QTR profile should be used than for the neutral B&W workflow. However on enough media the driver B&W mode gives a slightly higher Dmax so is preferred for neutral B&W prints.

Anyway a QTR or another custom B&W profile on top of Epson ABW mode has been practised for a long time (Steve Kale, Epson 2400), it became more problematic after Apple and Adobe made CM idiot proof for OS-X in general and for Adobe products in general. Experts meanwhile know the right way around that "feature", anyone in between may not cope well.

This discussion could have been in the Digital B&W specific forum where alternatives are discussed for driving that 3800 when B&W prints are needed. Not that familiar anymore with QTR as a driver I still think that QTR also can drive it for B&W prints with the normal ink set installed.

The QTR profiling tools can go further than just describing the tone range character of a printer in the created profile, there is also the possibility to embed Photoshop curves in the profile which makes it possible to drive in OEM color mode any odd printer loaded with a quad B&W ink set. In that case you sure need density measurement instruments to get it right. Plus some brain twisting on PS curve creation. Paul Roark asked Roy to add that feature some years ago. I used it on an HP OfficeJet Pro with the normal HP driver to check whether it coped with a B&W pigment ink set. So a QTR "ICC" profile can do another job than your normal ICC RGB-device printer profile does in color mode CM.


Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
January 2016 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots




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datro

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Re: BW Printing and ICC profiles... why use a profile...
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2016, 10:03:46 am »

Understood. I'd stick with ABW. Getting a dead nuts neutral print is difficult with even the best ICC Profile over the entire tonal scale.
Better tonal scale with a profile? Maybe, but I'd suspect unlikely IF you use the same Epson driver with the profile. It's not all that linear, a profile can't 'fix that'. Now a substitute driver, like ImagePrint, very possible.

I agree, stick with ABW.

A while back I did some testing with the QTR tools to create a luminance linearization profile for use with Epson ABW (I'm on the Windows platform printing to a 7900).  I found that in fact I lost shadow detail when using the linearization profile.  I think linearization is overblown, especially on the current printers which are already pretty good in this respect.  And for me I can get along just fine without soft proofing; I tend to do my proofing with actual prints anyway.

I've also tried doing toned B&W printing with a custom ICC color profile generated to optimize for neutral accuracy but I also find that the shadow details are not as good as with ABW.  I have more work to do there, but so far my conclusion is that ABW is pretty darn good, especially concerning shadow details.

I think the next step up in overall quality is probably using QTR as the printing engine and doing the necessary work to fine tune the curves for the desired balance of printing characteristics (minimum use of color for neutral prints, toning ability, etc.).  It's where I plan to focus as time allows.

Dave
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Doug Gray

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Re: BW Printing and ICC profiles... why use a profile...
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2016, 11:20:40 am »

I agree, stick with ABW.

A while back I did some testing with the QTR tools to create a luminance linearization profile for use with Epson ABW (I'm on the Windows platform printing to a 7900).  I found that in fact I lost shadow detail when using the linearization profile.  I think linearization is overblown, especially on the current printers which are already pretty good in this respect.  And for me I can get along just fine without soft proofing; I tend to do my proofing with actual prints anyway.

I've also tried doing toned B&W printing with a custom ICC color profile generated to optimize for neutral accuracy but I also find that the shadow details are not as good as with ABW.  I have more work to do there, but so far my conclusion is that ABW is pretty darn good, especially concerning shadow details.

I think the next step up in overall quality is probably using QTR as the printing engine and doing the necessary work to fine tune the curves for the desired balance of printing characteristics (minimum use of color for neutral prints, toning ability, etc.).  It's where I plan to focus as time allows.

Dave

I, like Alan, also add neutral patches to enhance the gray accuracy. It's very good except near the Dmax where there is a slight shift to the paper's black point which isn't quite neutral. There is little metameric error elsewhere but the Dmax region shift has to be worked around.
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NeroMetalliko

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Re: BW Printing and ICC profiles... why use a profile...
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2016, 06:06:10 pm »

Hello,

as some of you could remember, in 2013 I had some time and started to develop a personal tool specifically focused to ABW linearization,
after a lot of learning/testing/working I come to some interesting results that I shared in a post here:
http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=78142.0

Even if not updated, you can still look there if you like, it could be an interesting read regarding the ABW argument (and not only ABW).

Unluckily I had to stop the development for lack of time due to more stringent needs.

The last version of the (still unfinished) scripts are version XX (twenty !) of june 2014 which settled to numerous little modification/optimization and a simplified 18 -> 35 wedges set (2 steps process with a final optional 35 patches check).

The real world results were good enough at that point, and I have extensively used my linearized DeviceLink ABW profiles for a personal B&W gallery printed on HotPressBright paper, just to say.

The work I have done (and the amazing opinion/suggestion so kindly shared here from a lot of very skilled friends) showed to me that there is indeed a terrific potential still uncovered in this approach, with several other possibility to explore for further enhance/optimize the tool.

Unluckily I was very busy with other tasks since then and I had no more time to invest in the project, so I have never updated the original post and not made further advancement (and at the moment I still have started to forget some of the deep and subtle tech nuances I have discovered during the work, frankly said).

In the next months I probably will try to resurrect the whole thing, at least from an operational point, because I have some other prints I want to do and I need to make some new ABW linearization profiles.
So, I cannot promise nothing, but I really hope to have the time to do it and to post something new here too.

Thanks again,
ciao,

Andrea :)
« Last Edit: March 05, 2016, 10:23:36 am by NeroMetalliko »
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Ferp

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Re: BW Printing and ICC profiles... why use a profile...
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2016, 07:39:32 pm »

Coming to this a bit late.

I print in BW and I use Epson's Advanced BW controls and no ICC profile.  I get excellent results! 
I am wondering why anyone would want to use an ICC profile when printing to BW other than to tint an image.

If you like what you're getting, then there's no reason to change.  People use an ICC for more predictability and control, but if you feel that you have those things already, then why bother?

A while back I did some testing with the QTR tools to create a luminance linearization profile for use with Epson ABW (I'm on the Windows platform printing to a 7900).  I found that in fact I lost shadow detail when using the linearization profile.  I think linearization is overblown, especially on the current printers which are already pretty good in this respect.

If you're creating an ICC for ABW and converting the image to that ICC for printing, then you will probably crush the shadows.  Converting to the ICC delivers perceptual linearity, not linearity in luminosity.  There are two quite different definitions of linearity which need to be distinguished.  This has been discussed on and off over the years on the Yahoo QTR forum.  You can't linearize ABW to make it linear in luminosity.  The best you can do is soft-proof using the preserve numbers option in PS.

I think the next step up in overall quality is probably using QTR as the printing engine and doing the necessary work to fine tune the curves for the desired balance of printing characteristics (minimum use of color for neutral prints, toning ability, etc.).  It's where I plan to focus as time allows.

I agree that QTR would be the next step up.  At least you can linearize it.  But my previous comments about perceptual linearity vs linearity in luminosity, and how to soft-proof, apply just as much to QTR as ABW.
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NeroMetalliko

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Re: BW Printing and ICC profiles... why use a profile...
« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2016, 06:24:07 pm »

You can't linearize ABW to make it linear in luminosity. 

This statement puzzles me a little bit...

For a given paper/printer/setting combination I can print an AdobeRGB (or sRGB) specific designed L* equally spaced gray wedge target using ABW, read it with a spectro, extract the L* values for each gray patch, calculate an exact L* curve correction in order to achieve a L* straight target line from max ink black to paper white, and finally build a DeviceLink profile (from RGB to RGB) directly incorporating that specific L* correction curve that I can apply to an AdobeRGB (or sRGB) image before printing it using ABW with the same paper/printer/settings. The usual net result is a fine tuned opening in the shadows and not a crush at all.

We can discuss a lot regarding the fact that a straight L* line from max ink black to paper white could be a proper target or not, in fact we have already discussed it in the thread I have above indicated, but this is not the main point now.

In my humble knowledge the L* component in L*a*b* closely matches human perception of lightness (usually I call it Luminosity but I'm not sure if this is perfectly correct), this is what matters more in my view, and the main reason why I have decided to use a equally spaced L* target to perform the linearization.
Maybe this is what you are previously referring as "perceptual linearity" but what do you intend with "linearity in luminosity" instead and why it should be a better choice in your opinion (not to mention an impossible task to do for ABW)?
Can you articulate your statement a little bit more?

Many thanks in advance,
ciao.

Andrea :)
« Last Edit: February 26, 2016, 01:30:05 am by NeroMetalliko »
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Ferp

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Re: BW Printing and ICC profiles... why use a profile...
« Reply #17 on: February 27, 2016, 06:34:57 am »

This statement puzzles me a little bit...

What I mean is .... If you do as you suggest for QTR and print a equally spaced gray wedge target using QTR, read it with a spectro and process the measurements through QTR, you will get a set of linearization numbers that you can input into the QTR curve to linearize it.   So you can linearize QTR,  If you do as you suggest for ABW, you can't directly input those numbers into ABW as you can with QTR, so you can't directly linearize it. 

I have read reports elsewhere of people who instead have use the linearization output from QTR to create curve corrections to achieve the same effect, which is what I assume you're doing as a first step.  I didn't mention it because my impression is that people use ABW for its simplicity.  Once you need to adopt such a complex workflow using workarounds, then it's no longer simple, and those looking for a more complex workflow will probably switch to QTR. 

The same probably applies to DeviceLink profiles.  I confess that I don't know a lot about them, despite a little Googling.  I'd be interested to learn more, but the same point probably applies, i.e. at what point does this become too complex for most of the intended ABW target audience? 

I don't want to lose sight of the OP, for whom all this discussion is probably mumbo-jumbo.  For such people ABW is either works simply it doesn't.  I standby my comment that QTR would be a step up in terms of print quality, split-toning, and ease of linearization.

Maybe this is what you are previously referring as "perceptual linearity" but what do you intend with "linearity in luminosity" instead and why it should be a better choice in your opinion (not to mention an impossible task to do for ABW)?

By linear in luminosity I mean that if you print a equally spaced gray wedge target using either QTR or ABW, read it with a spectro and plot the luminosity then the values lie on a straight line.  Perceptual linearity is a term used by the creator of QTR, Roy Harrington, for what happens when you convert an image to a QTR-derived ICC, and if you search the QTR forum then you will find his references to it and explanations of it.  I mentioned it because if you convert your image to an ICC produced by QTR then your print will no longer be linear in luminosity - the shadows are compressed.  You sometimes read suggestions to convert your image to the ICC to linearize it, including in this thread, but it doesn't work that way.
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NeroMetalliko

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Re: BW Printing and ICC profiles... why use a profile...
« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2016, 10:04:08 am »

What I mean is .... If you do as you suggest for QTR and print a equally spaced gray wedge target using QTR, read it with a spectro and process the measurements through QTR, you will get a set of linearization numbers that you can input into the QTR curve to linearize it.   So you can linearize QTR,  If you do as you suggest for ABW, you can't directly input those numbers into ABW as you can with QTR, so you can't directly linearize it. 

I don't use QTR at all, I have tried it in the past but then I have developed my own tool which is the only I use. I print in Photoshop using my DeviceLink linearization profiles.

Now, my gray wedge targets are equally spaced in L*, not in RGB values, and this is a first difference (this means that I have a set of target for each RGB working space and a related DeviceLink correction profile for each paper/printer combination).
I print my BW target with ABW (using the proper paper/printer/settings) and then I read the target, in this way I have a map of the non-linearity of the ABW printing process. Then I use some math to calculate a compensation curve in order to get a L* straight line form max black ink to paper white. This curve is finally implemented building a DeviceLink profile which I do myself too.
At this point you can print the BW target with the DeviceLink applied (or use a second target set with twice the patches, if preferred):
the final result is a near perfect L* line. I can iterate with a second compensation and refine the DeviceLink further if I think it is needed, and check the result again (usually just the first pass is enough, I never go over two steps because it often becomes overkill).

In my workflow the DeviceLink curve IS the way you can directly inject the linearization numbers inside ABW (embedding it in the image prior to print it), and this is exactly a L* linearization, as the verification plot can easily confirm. The shadows are never compressed, quite the opposite.

Quote
I have read reports elsewhere of people who instead have use the linearization output from QTR to create curve corrections to achieve the same effect, which is what I assume you're doing as a first step.  I didn't mention it because my impression is that people use ABW for its simplicity.  Once you need to adopt such a complex workflow using workarounds, then it's no longer simple, and those looking for a more complex workflow will probably switch to QTR. 

With ABW if you want it simple you still have it.
But if you want it to be linearized you can do it too, it is less simple but it is possible.

And ABW is not only for simplicity, ABW dMax values (and lightfastness) for example can easily be the best you can achieve. With all the other things on par by using an ICC workflow in Photoshop for B&W instead of the ABW you will probably end with inferior dMax values. If the tone is neutral enough (and often it is) I'm really maximizing the results with ABW and, in my opinion, the efforts required for the further enhancements I get are well worth.

Please, note I still think that even with a good use of QTR or Qimage you can get really top results in any case, it is less simple than using the standard ABW workflow but it's possible.

Quote
The same probably applies to DeviceLink profiles.  I confess that I don't know a lot about them, despite a little Googling.  I'd be interested to learn more, but the same point probably applies, i.e. at what point does this become too complex for most of the intended ABW target audience? 

The "complex" part obviously is to get the DeviceLink profile done, but this kind of "complexity" is the same for every ICC creating process too, nothing more, maybe it is more simple because the targets are with 18 - 54 patches only, so not big targets like for a full ICC build.

Indeed I think you are right in the sense that if the hassle to have any kind of extra step over the straight ABW use is considered too much, this approach is not better (but not worse) than any other kind of approaches, from this point of view.

Once you have the profile, only few mouse clicks are required in Photoshop to apply the DeviceLink profile to the image before printing it: it is very easy and simple.

Quote
I don't want to lose sight of the OP, for whom all this discussion is probably mumbo-jumbo.  For such people ABW is either works simply it doesn't.  I standby my comment that QTR would be a step up in terms of print quality, split-toning, and ease of linearization.

I agree, ABW is simple and it works, so it's a good solution if no extra step are preferred, and I think that it could be often better than a straight Photoshop + canned ICC workflow for B&W.
QTR could be a step up if you want something more, but it's less simple.
My tool simply it doesn't exist as released product: it's an experimental work of myself, so it cannot be considered a public alternative at all, and for this reason my observations here are more an "academic" talk at this point.

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By linear in luminosity I mean that if you print a equally spaced gray wedge target using either QTR or ABW, read it with a spectro and plot the luminosity then the values lie on a straight line.  Perceptual linearity is a term used by the creator of QTR, Roy Harrington, for what happens when you convert an image to a QTR-derived ICC, and if you search the QTR forum then you will find his references to it and explanations of it.  I mentioned it because if you convert your image to an ICC produced by QTR then your print will no longer be linear in luminosity - the shadows are compressed.  You sometimes read suggestions to convert your image to the ICC to linearize it, including in this thread, but it doesn't work that way.

Ok, you have to pay attention to the way you plot the data, however in my case I can confirm you that the results will be a straight L* line, so we can agree that this IS linear in luminosity and, in my case, it IS possible to achieve it even using ABW.

Many thanks for your answer, I really appreciate it.

Ciao,

Andrea :)

« Last Edit: February 27, 2016, 12:14:56 pm by NeroMetalliko »
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GrahamBy

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Re: BW Printing and ICC profiles... why use a profile...
« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2016, 03:39:05 pm »

Andrea, thanks for that explanation. What was required to build your tool? Is it C++ or python or???

My own experience with the Canon ABW equivalent and the papers I use is that it all works fine out of the box, but I'm academically interested :-)
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