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Author Topic: Making Custom Profiles For QTR With A Color Munki  (Read 3089 times)

IanBarber

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Making Custom Profiles For QTR With A Color Munki
« on: February 14, 2016, 07:09:51 AM »

For sometime I have been interested in making my own profiles to use with QTR but have never really understood the workflow in doing it with a Color Munki.


Has anyone actually done a video demonstrating the process, I have read the instructions but really would like to see a video tutorial showing all the steps, even if someone was prepared to do one and make it chargeable.

richardboutwell

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Re: Making Custom Profiles For QTR With A Color Munki
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2016, 11:37:53 AM »

I am in the final stages of putting together my book on QuadToneRIP Profile Creation and Printing, and there will be a companion video course on making custom profiles using spreadsheet templates I created. I do provide one-on-one QTR remote and in-person training and workshops through my teaching site (http://www.BWMastery.com).

You can do the linearization step with the color munki, but doing ink limit and grayscale partitioning steps might not be possible because of the limitations of the step wedge format and the color munki software. An i1 Pro (even an older used one) is really the best option, and provides the most functionality and, in the long run, is the most economic option in terms of time, paper, and ink. My rule is if the product has a cute mis-spelled name, it is probably not worth buying, but so many people have asked me about the full profile creation process with the color munki that I am buying one this week and will do a write up about it for the book (maybe a video too).
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IanBarber

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Re: Making Custom Profiles For QTR With A Color Munki
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2016, 12:30:00 PM »

Thanks Richard. I have just emailed you via your website

howardm

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Re: Making Custom Profiles For QTR With A Color Munki
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2016, 04:03:12 PM »

Couldn't you use the Argyll software along w/ a ruler/guide for the Munki to spot read the chart?

richardboutwell

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Re: Making Custom Profiles For QTR With A Color Munki
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2016, 04:19:10 PM »

Reading the 21-step target for linearization is not the problem. Keith Cooper has written that up.

The issue is reading the ink separation images to determine what the optimal ink limits are and automatically defining the cross-over points for partitioning the gray scale. I am getting a color munki this week to see if I can make it work, but I have my doubts. The issue is creating ink separation images for the color munki and the color munki software not having a way of separating one patch from the next. Suggesting that people, who are already having problems with creating QTR profiles, use a command line color management system is what I am trying to get away from. The whole point of my book is to make the profiling process as systematic and as automatic as possible, while still being much better than using canned or inaccurate profiles, and not having to go through as much trial and error. I've done all the trials and made all the errors... there's no reason more people should have to do so as well.
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larrybb

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Re: Making Custom Profiles For QTR With A Color Munki
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2016, 02:12:12 PM »

I'm also a newbie when it comes to black and white.  I assume that if I'm using K7 or K6 insets that I wouldn't need to be setting ink limits because those settings are left untouched according to piezography workflow?

Larry
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Scho

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Re: Making Custom Profiles For QTR With A Color Munki
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2016, 07:39:57 PM »

Reading the 21-step target for linearization is not the problem. Keith Cooper has written that up.

The issue is reading the ink separation images to determine what the optimal ink limits are and automatically defining the cross-over points for partitioning the gray scale. I am getting a color munki this week to see if I can make it work, but I have my doubts. The issue is creating ink separation images for the color munki and the color munki software not having a way of separating one patch from the next. Suggesting that people, who are already having problems with creating QTR profiles, use a command line color management system is what I am trying to get away from. The whole point of my book is to make the profiling process as systematic and as automatic as possible, while still being much better than using canned or inaccurate profiles, and not having to go through as much trial and error. I've done all the trials and made all the errors... there's no reason more people should have to do so as well.

Take a look at Lou Dina's tutorial and profiles for an alternative approach to making QTR profiles.  I use the ColorMunki and the profiles are working well.  Download here:  http://tinyurl.com/zej6vv6
« Last Edit: March 31, 2016, 08:06:07 PM by Scho »
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richardboutwell

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Re: Making Custom Profiles For QTR With A Color Munki
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2016, 09:13:30 PM »

That looks like it is a broken link to some Chinese site. The real download can be found in the Digital BW the Print Yahoo Group files section for QTR (I can't make a functional link to the .zip for some reason). The tutorial goes through a single channel black only profile so it won't be useful for making K3 profiles, but does some have useful info on making the toning profiles.

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IanBarber

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Re: Making Custom Profiles For QTR With A Color Munki
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2016, 04:40:12 AM »

I am in the final stages of putting together my book on QuadToneRIP Profile Creation and Printing, and there will be a companion video course on making custom profiles using spreadsheet templates I created. I do provide one-on-one QTR remote and in-person training and workshops through my teaching site (http://www.BWMastery.com).

You can do the linearization step with the color munki, but doing ink limit and grayscale partitioning steps might not be possible because of the limitations of the step wedge format and the color munki software. An i1 Pro (even an older used one) is really the best option, and provides the most functionality and, in the long run, is the most economic option in terms of time, paper, and ink. My rule is if the product has a cute mis-spelled name, it is probably not worth buying, but so many people have asked me about the full profile creation process with the color munki that I am buying one this week and will do a write up about it for the book (maybe a video too).


Is this available yet Richard

Paul Roark

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Re: Making Custom Profiles For QTR With A Color Munki
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2016, 11:03:18 AM »

For those who don't have a spectro yet, I recommend the Datacolor Spyder Print.  It is very easy to use with all the usual QTR test strips.

Paul
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richardboutwell

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Making Custom Profiles For QTR With A Color Munki
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2016, 11:20:35 AM »

For those who don't have a spectro yet, I recommend the Datacolor Spyder Print.  It is very easy to use with all the usual QTR test strips.

Paul
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Paul, do you know of a way to use the Spyder in strip mode for 21 step targets? The spyder is somewhat adequate for measuring single patches, but it does require averaging several measurements for each patch because, as far as I can tell, it only does a single sample for each time it is clicked as opposed to the 100-200 samples per second for the i1 pro and color munki in strip mode. Both the color munki and spyder print software is severely hamstrung for doing work creating or measuring custom targets. I don't have color munki yet, but I know it doesn't work on Windows for getting the measure files to use with QTR


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Paul Roark

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Re: Making Custom Profiles For QTR With A Color Munki
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2016, 10:28:22 PM »

I don't use the strip reader.  Some time ago we did a comparison of my manual reading with the Spyder v. strip reading by other spectros (I forget which models).  My manual reading was more accurate.  It takes about a minute to read a strip.

What many do for QTR is read three random 21-step targets, using a strip reader.  I suspect this gets a better read, but those targets don't have the gradient on them.  That gradient is often what can tell you if you have a glitch between patches.  You can see what looks like a line or some other discontinuity.  I would feel I was missing too much information if I did not have the gradient to look over.

There are decreasing returns to super accuracy.  For example, I know there are variances across the paper caused by the roller.  So, for a while I printed the strips vertically.  I stopped that -- just not worth the trouble.

After doing hundreds of profiles one learns where the weaknesses are, and the limits of the spectro are usually not it. 

So, each to his/her own, but putting up with some of the hassles I hear with other spectros, if I were to replace my old Spyder, I'd probably just buy a new one.

Paul
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Making Custom Profiles For QTR With A Color Munki
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2016, 12:47:19 PM »

One can print out either 21 or 51 step B/W patch sets using ArgyllCMS and read them quickly with either an i1 Pro or ColorMunki and then export the results into Excel see the behavior of the instrument and then prepare the QTR profile.  This is the method I've employed for the papers I print on and the results are quite good.

Alan
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