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Author Topic: The alleged free press.  (Read 4468 times)

Justinr

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The alleged free press.
« on: February 05, 2016, 04:25:15 am »

I suppose that we shouldn't be surprised by the fact that a well respected German journalist has let on that the government controls the news agenda in his country -

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/02/02/top-german-journalist-admits-live-on-air-national-news-agenda-set-by-government/

I think many of suspected that the news is manipulated but now we are getting something more definite to go on other than suspicion and nagging doubts. Here in Ireland where we are firmly under the Teutonic thumb I have tripped over several instances of events and trends that are certainly not being reported as one would expect, and back in the UK I found myself right up against a a wall of lies, or misinformation, being told by the press, 15 or so years ago.

I think it was on here that somebody told the joke about Russian Television having just two channels. The first was the main government propaganda channel while on the second was a KGB officer telling you to turn back to the first.

So who's laughing now?
« Last Edit: February 05, 2016, 04:30:45 am by Justinr »
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GrahamBy

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Re: The alleged free press.
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2016, 06:36:19 am »

Although it may not be so far from the truth really, Breitbart is paranoid central. The internet is now full of pseudo news sites spulling the beans on the universal conspiracy in which all the media are complicit... except them, of course.
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Chairman Bill

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Re: The alleged free press.
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2016, 07:44:23 am »

Here in the UK, we're seeing a blatant blanket wall-to-wall anti-Corbyn* agenda in the news media. Whether you agree with his politics or not, it is disgraceful how the news media is treating our politics. Interestingly, news of Bernie Sanders is almost absent in any coverage of the US presidential race. All we seem to hear is Trump, Trump, Trump. Now that might be a matter of perverse morbid fascination with with the obscene level of idiocy the man offers, but the only opposition to him appears to be mainstream, establishment-friendly Clinton. Of course, showing a serious US potential presidential figure with the politics of Sanders, would offer too much support to the idea of Corbyn being taken seriously too. That would never do.

So, the idea of a free-press, speaking truth to power, holding the establishment & government in particular to account, is something we most certainly do not have. What we do have is a press that is part of the corporatist agenda, and willing to lie to the people to support those aims. And it's getting so blatant that even some right-wing commentators are starting to question it.


*UK Labour Party leader, standing in opposition to the neoliberal consensus & corporatism, and therefore a Maoist-Stalinist lesbian Muslim terrorist. Or something.

degrub

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Re: The alleged free press.
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2016, 08:25:24 am »

We used to have newspaper cartoon sketches to provide comic relief and amusement .... now they are the conveyance of a sardonic truth and the news pages the crossword puzzle of misinformation.

Frank
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Justinr

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Re: The alleged free press.
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2016, 08:45:18 am »

Although it may not be so far from the truth really, Breitbart is paranoid central. The internet is now full of pseudo news sites spulling the beans on the universal conspiracy in which all the media are complicit... except them, of course.

Is he, you can prove that? Or are we just meant to believe what you say because you were the first to accuse someone else of being paranoid?
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: The alleged free press.
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2016, 08:51:01 am »

Is he, you can prove that? Or are we just meant to believe what you say because you were the first to accuse someone else of being paranoid?

Hi Justin,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breitbart_News_Network

Quote from: Wikipedia
Breitbart News Network (known simply as Breitbart News, Breitbart or Breitbart.com) is a conservative[3] news and opinion website founded in 2007 by Andrew Breitbart (1969–2012). It identifies itself as on the political right.
In August 2010, Breitbart told the Associated Press that he was "committed to the destruction of the old media guard."

Their website has its own agenda. I'm not suggesting that the "retired media boss at a major German state broadcaster" is not telling the/his truth, but we cannot verify it either.

Cheers,
Bart
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Justinr

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Re: The alleged free press.
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2016, 09:01:58 am »

Hi Justin,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breitbart_News_Network

Their website has its own agenda. I'm not suggesting that the "retired media boss at a major German state broadcaster" is not telling the/his truth, but we cannot verify it either.

Cheers,
Bart

Thanks for that Bart. The trouble is that what he says does chime with what I've seen in the past. The Foot and Mouth outbreak of 2001 in the UK had all sorts going on which was flatly contradicted by the press, I was sort of involved and knew many of those affected. It's left me somewhat cynical as have other events since.
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: The alleged free press.
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2016, 09:24:37 am »

Thanks for that Bart. The trouble is that what he says does chime with what I've seen in the past. The Foot and Mouth outbreak of 2001 in the UK had all sorts going on which was flatly contradicted by the press, I was sort of involved and knew many of those affected. It's left me somewhat cynical as have other events since.

Justin, Critical is good, cynical is being defeated. As one of the reporters in that radio interview says, they are not spokespersons for the government, as passers-on of propaganda, but are supposed to work on the information that is provided by various sources and make their own well investigated report about events.

Cheers,
Bart
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GrahamBy

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Re: The alleged free press.
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2016, 10:32:10 am »

I'm a believer in the theory that laziness and incompetence are more plausible explanations than conspiracies. If you work for Murdoch, it's simply easier to go with what the boss wants... if Rupert wants to help the government, it will look like the government is calling the shots. If not, not.
Certainly the foot & mouth outbreak could have been stopped by vaccination rather than the apocalyptic destruction of herds... but hey, they're only animals, right? Yet it would be politically unthinkable to round up and slaughter 20% of the dogs or cats in the UK. I'd say that is a matter of the media not wanting to open Pandora's box and upset the agro-industrial lobby.. just as French courts have followed the US lead in prohibiting use of photos and videos showing whhat happens in industrial animal raising and slaughterhouses.
Tickling people's prejudices makes more money than hard questions, in brief.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: The alleged free press.
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2016, 10:58:21 am »

... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breitbart_News_Network

Their website has its own agenda..

Probably, but trusting Wikipedia be an objective source!?

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: The alleged free press.
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2016, 11:15:47 am »

You guys who grow up in the West are such a spoiled bunch. You expect truth to be delivered to you on a silver platter. Truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. We, who grew up in the two-channel environments, learned to decipher the truth from the government propaganda early on. When living there, we would fall off the chair laughing when told that three quarters of the American public believe what they hear on TV.

Free press is a goal, not a fact.

Which brings me to the disdain for the Fox News and, say Breitbart, by the left, and Huff Post, etc. by the right. I one watches, say, Fox or Breitbart, and dares to quote it as a source, it is immediately dismissed as partisan and thus unreliable, and the said person ridiculed as an idiot. However, the only way to make up your own mind in the environment of the "free" press is to audiatur at altera pars.

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: The alleged free press.
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2016, 11:31:38 am »

Probably, but trusting Wikipedia be an objective source!?

;) Who can trust anybody any longer?
But do you have any indication that in this case Wikipedia is wrong???

Get informed by multiple sources (but have an antenna out for personal agenda's), and form your own opinion, that's my motto.

Cheers,
Bart
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Colorado David

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Re: The alleged free press.
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2016, 11:41:56 am »

My problem with Wikipedia is that anyone can edit an entry.  So you don't like what some entry says? Login and change it. It helps if you have some source material to cite, but the worst that can happen to you is a mod will flag something you wrote as needing a citation. In today's world, you must be skeptical and able to do your own research free of the HuffPos of the world.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: The alleged free press.
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2016, 11:42:23 am »

... Get informed by multiple sources (but have an antenna out for personal agenda's), and form your own opinion, that's my motto.

Agreed.

But that is, at at the same time, the very reason why Wikipedia can never be fully trusted - we can't figure out personal or political agendas  behind anonymous articles.

Justinr

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Re: The alleged free press.
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2016, 01:45:27 pm »

Probably, but trusting Wikipedia be an objective source!?

Wikipedia is the ultimate curates egg. Excellent in parts but quite untrustworthy in others. It's knowing which is which that is the key. When it comes to matters like this I'd check out the sources first before taking it too firmly on board. However, recently I was watching a programme by a presenter whom I normally admire before doing a bit of research on the subject myself, I found that he could easily have lifted his documentary pretty much whole from the site!
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Justinr

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Re: The alleged free press.
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2016, 01:55:13 pm »

My problem with Wikipedia is that anyone can edit an entry.  So you don't like what some entry says? Login and change it. It helps if you have some source material to cite, but the worst that can happen to you is a mod will flag something you wrote as needing a citation. In today's world, you must be skeptical and able to do your own research free of the HuffPos of the world.

An Irish government lackey was found to be doing just that the day before the Prime Minister announced the general election!

I have edited a few of items on Wikipedia myself, the latest added to the list of companies that had experimented with a pressure wave supercharger on their engines which is just the point of Wikipedia and demonstrates how it should work. It's all a question of developing a sense for what can be trusted and what should be questioned. As a starting point for research it can really be very useful.
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Justinr

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Re: The alleged free press.
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2016, 02:58:30 pm »

Here in the UK, we're seeing a blatant blanket wall-to-wall anti-Corbyn* agenda in the news media. Whether you agree with his politics or not, it is disgraceful how the news media is treating our politics. Interestingly, news of Bernie Sanders is almost absent in any coverage of the US presidential race. All we seem to hear is Trump, Trump, Trump. Now that might be a matter of perverse morbid fascination with with the obscene level of idiocy the man offers, but the only opposition to him appears to be mainstream, establishment-friendly Clinton. Of course, showing a serious US potential presidential figure with the politics of Sanders, would offer too much support to the idea of Corbyn being taken seriously too. That would never do.

So, the idea of a free-press, speaking truth to power, holding the establishment & government in particular to account, is something we most certainly do not have. What we do have is a press that is part of the corporatist agenda, and willing to lie to the people to support those aims. And it's getting so blatant that even some right-wing commentators are starting to question it.


*UK Labour Party leader, standing in opposition to the neoliberal consensus & corporatism, and therefore a Maoist-Stalinist lesbian Muslim terrorist. Or something.

That's pretty much the nail hammered squarely on the head. Even over here the press has stuck their oar in and in the end one comes away with the impression that they are scared of something and you want to find out what.
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Telecaster

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Re: The alleged free press.
« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2016, 03:38:47 pm »

Adding to Slobodan's observations, we in the West are IMO too complacent about how we get news…and far too gullible when it comes to evaluating news sources and thus the substance of what they offer. Being well informed is an emergent process. It certainly doesn't happen solely by having our predispositions & biases echoed back at us by sources we're inclined to trust. It's necessary to hear & read a spectrum of voices. From that we can get a feel for the relative values of the various voices…who's intending primarily to inform, or primarily to propagandize, or merely to titillate & muckrake for profit and/or kicks. All of this is, of course, filtered through our predispositions & biases—and, if we're sufficiently self-aware and self-analytical, an understanding of what those predispositions & biases are—and a hopefully malleable & always preliminary formulation of "the truth" takes shape. And is molded & even altered by further input.

In the West powerful & wealthy people with self-serving agendas are a large part of the mix. Often in other regions heavy-handed governments occupy a similar position. Be aware of who owns the various media sources and consider what their interests & ambitions likely are.

All this requires effort, a critical mindset and a lack of willingness to be shepherded.

-Dave-
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Nelsonretreat

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Re: The alleged free press.
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2016, 07:06:50 pm »

Interestingly, news of Bernie Sanders is almost absent in any coverage of the US presidential race. All we seem to hear is Trump, Trump, Trump. Now that might be a matter of perverse morbid fascination with with the obscene level of idiocy the man offers, but the only opposition to him appears to be mainstream, establishment-friendly Clinton. Of course, showing a serious US potential presidential figure with the politics of Sanders, would offer too much support to the idea of Corbyn being taken seriously too. That would never do.


You should never let the facts get in the way of a good opinion!

Who is Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders?    BBC     http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34532136
Inside the mind of Bernie Sanders: unbowed, unchanged, and unafraid of a good fight  The Guardian http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jun/19/bernie-sanders-profile-democrat-presidential-candidate
EXCLUSIVE: Bernie Sanders' very 1960s love life revealed  Daily Mail   http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3155396/Bernie-Sanders-1960s-love-life-revealed-wife-woman-son-sugar-shack-home-lived-revolutionary.html#ixzz40kvjqLil
Bernie Sanders: Democratic Candidate Profile  Sky News  http://news.sky.com/story/1632335/bernie-sanders-democratic-candidate-profile
10 reasons why voters are turning to Bernie Sanders  The Guardian  http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/feb/12/bernie-sanders-voters-supporters-10-reasons-why-us-election-2016
US Election 2016: How Bernie Sanders captured the hearts of America's idealists  The Independent http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-elections/us-election-2016-how-bernie-sanders-captured-the-hearts-of-americas-idealists-a6856876.html

I could put a ton more but I think you get the idea!
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Nelsonretreat

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Re: The alleged free press.
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2016, 07:12:48 pm »

I don't want to weigh in on whether an anonymous source is telling the truth or not about German media having to do what the government tells it to do but if you were curious to find out how trustworthy Breitbart is then the following link might prove interesting reading.

Big Falsehoods: An updated guide to Andrew Breitbart's lies, smears, and distortions

http://mediamatters.org/research/2010/07/21/big-falsehoods-an-updated-guide-to-andrew-breit/168051
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