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Author Topic: Interview with the CEO of Hasselblad – Perry Oosting  (Read 18794 times)

ErikKaffehr

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Re: Interview with the CEO of Hasselblad – Perry Oosting
« Reply #60 on: February 05, 2016, 01:14:49 am »

Hi,

Yes, may be. But it is not just about 100 MP but also offering a very good CMOS sensor at full frame 645.

It also seems that the 100 MP full frame sensor is not only larger but also better, it seems to be the Sony sensor that delivers best DR per pixel right now. Probably better than the best 24x36 sensors of today. And that is not just marketing speak but confirmed from real world sample images.

Good stuff, even if it comes with hefty price tag.

Best regards
Erik


100MP very soon.
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eronald

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Re: Interview with the CEO of Hasselblad – Perry Oosting
« Reply #61 on: February 05, 2016, 03:58:27 pm »

Hi,

Both Phase One and Hasselblad have mirrorless cameras already, but those are intended for aerial photography.

Best regards
Erik

What Hassy doesn't have yet is a cheap 24x36 back. Same 2x crop as mirrorless micro 4/3

Edmund
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BAB

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Re: Interview with the CEO of Hasselblad – Perry Oosting
« Reply #62 on: February 06, 2016, 09:52:54 am »

All successful companies in today's market, really successful billion dollar companies in electronics or DOT com are selling to the masses. The money is in billed monthly subscribers, it's not the iPhone itself. The vendors supplying parts or software, vendors involved with logistics, marketing and financial institutions all profit from a viral mass consumer want. Take that idea down to Hasselblad's company level and look forward from there, I don't see a big opportunity for Hasselblad to get that kind of market share. On the other hand the MFDB business is small but there is room for several to stay and gain market share by offering similar products at varying levels of price points. Now because of pressure from competitors the iPhone as well as the new H5D has a life cycle in sight, that means R&D needs to be working on new introductions that can keep a product viral. The V system might have been a lucky bandaid for them stay profitable while developing a viable strategy to survive (I hope) and the new CMOS but like the iPhone sales will become stagnant with out a product taking a new direction. Now that 100mp backs are real institutional customers might decide that multi shot is too much and they can live with one multi shot back which they already own and buy a couple of 100mp backs to do the grunt work, that's my guess!
The consumers demands and wants need to be granted for Hasselblad or anyone else to continue in today's market. Involvement of third parties, cooperative business with Sony, Panisonic and Fuji enables Hasselblad to answer the consumers wishes. Thinking about basic wants nothing has changed from the last century smaller is better, lighter is better, faster is better, simpler is better, more powerful is better, better looking, feeling and weatherproofing is better. Less expensive is better, to the masses. And to me a real viewfinder is better. Also digging through menus is not better buttons are. Small print dimly lit doesn't work for me either, in other words older people have different needs than 20 year old, and a little tip they also have more money so pull the chair out from under your F-IN R&D department and have them stand up working for hours like we do with a 5' tripod camera atop or have them walk around 5 days a week holding a H5D with a 120mm glass attached raising and lowering it 400-800 times a day and then let them tell me what a great piece of equipment they made and how they think Pigs can fly. People today you can have 10 frames a sec at 800mm for less weight and price of a Hasselblad lens that is something to pay attention to.
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eronald

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Re: Interview with the CEO of Hasselblad – Perry Oosting
« Reply #63 on: February 06, 2016, 11:33:46 am »

Well, in a way, Hassy now have a chance to make themselves a new future.

1. The transition to mirrorless is where the future lies.
2. There is a supplier (Sony) commoditising the tech parts, so this is mainly a design job.
2. Sweden is nice for design and so they have a chance of creating a worthwhile concept rather than a fake SLR. 
3. Hassy's new partner DJI knows all about making things small, light, cheap, and still tough, and linking devices seamlessly  to phones and iPads. 


Edmund

All successful companies in today's market, really successful billion dollar companies in electronics or DOT com are selling to the masses. The money is in billed monthly subscribers, it's not the iPhone itself. The vendors supplying parts or software, vendors involved with logistics, marketing and financial institutions all profit from a viral mass consumer want. Take that idea down to Hasselblad's company level and look forward from there, I don't see a big opportunity for Hasselblad to get that kind of market share. On the other hand the MFDB business is small but there is room for several to stay and gain market share by offering similar products at varying levels of price points. Now because of pressure from competitors the iPhone as well as the new H5D has a life cycle in sight, that means R&D needs to be working on new introductions that can keep a product viral. The V system might have been a lucky bandaid for them stay profitable while developing a viable strategy to survive (I hope) and the new CMOS but like the iPhone sales will become stagnant with out a product taking a new direction. Now that 100mp backs are real institutional customers might decide that multi shot is too much and they can live with one multi shot back which they already own and buy a couple of 100mp backs to do the grunt work, that's my guess!
The consumers demands and wants need to be granted for Hasselblad or anyone else to continue in today's market. Involvement of third parties, cooperative business with Sony, Panisonic and Fuji enables Hasselblad to answer the consumers wishes. Thinking about basic wants nothing has changed from the last century smaller is better, lighter is better, faster is better, simpler is better, more powerful is better, better looking, feeling and weatherproofing is better. Less expensive is better, to the masses. And to me a real viewfinder is better. Also digging through menus is not better buttons are. Small print dimly lit doesn't work for me either, in other words older people have different needs than 20 year old, and a little tip they also have more money so pull the chair out from under your F-IN R&D department and have them stand up working for hours like we do with a 5' tripod camera atop or have them walk around 5 days a week holding a H5D with a 120mm glass attached raising and lowering it 400-800 times a day and then let them tell me what a great piece of equipment they made and how they think Pigs can fly. People today you can have 10 frames a sec at 800mm for less weight and price of a Hasselblad lens that is something to pay attention to.
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landscapephoto

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Re: Interview with the CEO of Hasselblad – Perry Oosting
« Reply #64 on: February 07, 2016, 02:29:37 am »

All successful companies in today's market, really successful billion dollar companies in electronics or DOT com are selling to the masses. The money is in billed monthly subscribers, it's not the iPhone itself.

That really depends on the country. I think that in Europe the majority of customers buy the phone outright instead of adding it to a cellular service plan.

Quote
The vendors supplying parts or software, vendors involved with logistics, marketing and financial institutions all profit from a viral mass consumer want. Take that idea down to Hasselblad's company level and look forward from there, I don't see a big opportunity for Hasselblad to get that kind of market share.

In most large first world cities, MF cameras can be rented. Isn't that also a model where the consumer pays regular fees instead of a one-time payment?
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landscapephoto

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Re: Interview with the CEO of Hasselblad – Perry Oosting
« Reply #65 on: February 07, 2016, 02:31:36 am »

1. The transition to mirrorless is where the future lies.

I don't understand why you would say that.
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eronald

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Re: Interview with the CEO of Hasselblad – Perry Oosting
« Reply #66 on: February 07, 2016, 03:19:17 am »

I don't understand why you would say that.

I'm not saying mirrorless is more pleasant to use. 

If central-shutter or sensor electronic shutter is used, then mirrorless can however dispense with *all* the moving parts in a camera *body*. This makes the solution *cheap*. There is no need for careful calibration of the mirror mechanism, the viewfinder focus path and the AF focus  path as in present-day dSLRs.


Edmund
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landscapephoto

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Re: Interview with the CEO of Hasselblad – Perry Oosting
« Reply #67 on: February 07, 2016, 03:34:50 am »

If central-shutter or sensor electronic shutter is used, then mirrorless can however dispense with *all* the moving parts in a camera *body*. This makes the solution *cheap*. There is no need for careful calibration of the mirror mechanism, the viewfinder focus path and the AF focus  path as in present-day dSLRs.

I see. Do you think this is relevant for MF cameras? They don't really sell on price, would mirrorless be an argument for their intended market?

The same can be said for high-end sports cameras, like the Nikon D5 or Canon 1DX MII. They still use a classical mirror and AF mechanism, because the intended users are not prepared to make the compromises necessary for mirrorless and are ready to take into account the extra weight and price.

Very important for many MF users is a solid tethering mode and the capacity to display the shot image on an external screen. I would expect some improvements in that respect, namely the adoption of faster interfaces (USB 3.1, Thunderbolt). A decent liveview capability may also be in the works, some users would love that.
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Interview with the CEO of Hasselblad – Perry Oosting
« Reply #68 on: February 07, 2016, 04:34:48 am »

Hi,

SLRs were introduced back in 1936, I think, with the intention of having "What You See is What You Get" viewing. So, something like 80 years of evolution of flipping mirror systems.

Now, there are a lot of problems with flipping mirror systems.
  • Vibrations caused by mirror accelerating and stopping
  • Mirror lag
  • Need to keep mirror, sensor, AF-sensor and ground glass in exact register
  • Cannot use contrast sensing AF

These issues are no great problem in studio, when shooting with electronic flash at small apertures, or when shooting fast action.

But, for shooting landscape and striving for best image quality you need to lock up mirror and used delayed shutter. Don't know about modern systems but my 555/ELD with a 120/4 at 1/125 doesn't yield useable sharpness without MLU, even if it used with a very sturdy tripod and an excellent head.

EVF has just been around for a few years, but essentially solves the issues with flipping mirror while inducing a few issues of it's own.

The advantages of EVF are:

  • Essentially no vibrations when used with electronic first shutter curtain (EFCS).
  • Low noise level
  • Fast response time with EFCS
  • Fast and accurate AF when combining PDAF and CDAF
  • No need for AF adjustment
  • Good visibility in dark environments
  • Great flexibility, because of short flange distance


On the down side EVFs are lacking in density range and have viewing lag.

Best regards
Erik

I see. Do you think this is relevant for MF cameras? They don't really sell on price, would mirrorless be an argument for their intended market?

The same can be said for high-end sports cameras, like the Nikon D5 or Canon 1DX MII. They still use a classical mirror and AF mechanism, because the intended users are not prepared to make the compromises necessary for mirrorless and are ready to take into account the extra weight and price.

Very important for many MF users is a solid tethering mode and the capacity to display the shot image on an external screen. I would expect some improvements in that respect, namely the adoption of faster interfaces (USB 3.1, Thunderbolt). A decent liveview capability may also be in the works, some users would love that.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2016, 07:47:33 am by ErikKaffehr »
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Erik Kaffehr
 

ErikKaffehr

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Re: Interview with the CEO of Hasselblad – Perry Oosting
« Reply #69 on: February 07, 2016, 08:49:27 am »

Hi Edmund,

Good points.

But It would add that Hasselblad has a very competitive system in the H-series, especially if they can create an attractive pricing structure.

My understanding is that both CVF backs (for the V system) and low end H5D is selling well, so production is at maximum capacity.

Best regards
Erik


Well, in a way, Hassy now have a chance to make themselves a new future.

1. The transition to mirrorless is where the future lies.
2. There is a supplier (Sony) commoditising the tech parts, so this is mainly a design job.
2. Sweden is nice for design and so they have a chance of creating a worthwhile concept rather than a fake SLR. 
3. Hassy's new partner DJI knows all about making things small, light, cheap, and still tough, and linking devices seamlessly  to phones and iPads. 


Edmund
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Erik Kaffehr
 

landscapephoto

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Re: Interview with the CEO of Hasselblad – Perry Oosting
« Reply #70 on: February 07, 2016, 09:01:15 am »

But, for shooting landscape and striving for best image quality you need to lock up mirror and used delayed shutter.

Yes, but in which respect is that a problem when shooting landscape?


Quote
The advantages of EVF are:

  • Essentially no vibrations when used with electronic first shutter curtain (EFCS).
  • Low noise level
  • Fast response time with EFCS
  • Fast and accurate AF when combining PDAF and CDAF
  • No need for AF adjustment
  • Good visibility in dark environments
  • Great flexibility, because of short flange distance

Maybe, but is the advantage relevant for MF cameras? To take you list points one by one:

  • MF have essentially no vibration when the mirror is raised and central shutter is used
  • noise level is irrelevant in studio and landscape applications
  • response time is fast with SLRs
  • AF on MF cameras is sufficiently fast and accurate
  • AF is calibrated at the factory in MF cameras
  • the large ground glass of MF cameras is quite bright, and MF cameras are rarely used in dark environments
  • you have even more flexibility because the back can be detached and mounted on a tech cam

The question remains: are the advantages relevant to the intended market? I believe they aren't.
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Ken R

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Re: Interview with the CEO of Hasselblad – Perry Oosting
« Reply #71 on: February 07, 2016, 11:14:04 am »

Honestly EVFs are awesome in most situations but I still prefer the OVF with its seemingly infinite refresh rate and dynamic range.

In the studio with dim modeling lights and shooting people (with flash obviously) OVFs rule.

For landscapes I dont even need a viewfinder most of the time. I use my Arca without one just fine. LV is very helpful though.
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Interview with the CEO of Hasselblad – Perry Oosting
« Reply #72 on: February 07, 2016, 12:06:16 pm »

Hi,

I was shooting in a few pretty dark churches in Alsace and in the Dolomites, and focusing with an OVF would have been a gamble but with EVF it was decent. The difference between visual and EVF was like somebody turned on the light.

So, modern EVF has it miracles. The main issue I have with EVF is that shadow detail is often bad, at least in bright light.

But, the great benefit of EVF is that you get rid of the mirror box and still have an accurate view. A camera without a mirror box can use a wide variety of lenses.

Best regards
Erik


Honestly EVFs are awesome in most situations but I still prefer the OVF with its seemingly infinite refresh rate and dynamic range.

In the studio with dim modeling lights and shooting people (with flash obviously) OVFs rule.

For landscapes I dont even need a viewfinder most of the time. I use my Arca without one just fine. LV is very helpful though.
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Erik Kaffehr
 

eronald

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Re: Interview with the CEO of Hasselblad – Perry Oosting
« Reply #73 on: February 07, 2016, 12:06:22 pm »

Honestly EVFs are awesome in most situations but I still prefer the OVF with its seemingly infinite refresh rate and dynamic range.

In the studio with dim modeling lights and shooting people (with flash obviously) OVFs rule.

For landscapes I dont even need a viewfinder most of the time. I use my Arca without one just fine. LV is very helpful though.

I'm not trying to defend the EVF vs the OVF; in fact I much prefer the OVF myself. However the reality is that the time for the EVF has come for anyone who doesn't want to occupy the obscene pricepoint niche of Phase.

An EVF Hassy design could

- take just about any lens with any flange distance, and any size sensor back by swapping backs and bodies like Lego.

- accomodate shift-backs

- supply mount points for viewfinders and audio.

- accept external batteries

- accept  fast (cache) and secondary memory units, external image processors and viewfinder transmitters.

And this modularity is actually what the original Hasselblad design was all about. Think of Alpa, but as an SLR-like design with integrated electronic wiring, and electronic controls.
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Interview with the CEO of Hasselblad – Perry Oosting
« Reply #74 on: February 07, 2016, 12:10:26 pm »

Hi,

Alpa FPS has much of that…

Best regards
Erik

I'm not trying to defend the EVF vs the OVF; in fact I much prefer the OVF myself. However the reality is that the time for the EVF has come for anyone who doesn't want to occupy the obscene pricepoint niche of Phase.

An EVF Hassy design could

- take just about any lens with any flange distance, and any size sensor back by swapping backs and bodies like Lego.

- accomodate shift-backs

- supply mount points for viewfinders and audio.

- accept external batteries

- accept  fast (cache) and secondary memory units, external image processors and viewfinder transmitters.

And this modularity is actually what the original Hasselblad design was all about. Think of Alpa, but as an SLR-like design with integrated electronic wiring, and electronic controls.
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eronald

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Re: Interview with the CEO of Hasselblad – Perry Oosting
« Reply #75 on: February 07, 2016, 12:34:06 pm »

Hi,

Alpa FPS has much of that…

Best regards
Erik

Yes, and the Alpa system has sold well. But the Alpa does not provide the electronic and power communication paths needed to make a modern camera work. Hassy already has an established electronic lens system, and backs, and even a perspective control system and GPS so they know how to create such a design. There is space on the market for a polymorphic still/video modular system, and Alpa are too limited, RED too specialised.

Edmund
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Re: Interview with the CEO of Hasselblad – Perry Oosting
« Reply #76 on: February 07, 2016, 03:33:09 pm »

Personally I like using an OVF, but EVF = much less weight, which is a plus for those of us who like to hike places with our gear. (Says the guy lugging around a Linhof Techno outfit and massive tripod.)
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eronald

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Re: Interview with the CEO of Hasselblad – Perry Oosting
« Reply #77 on: February 07, 2016, 04:37:21 pm »

In the end it doesn't matter whether EV of OVF is "better", what matters is that users have the choice. Phase has a classic OVF system with center point AF, it is time for an OVF solution with main sensor AF and tablet-sized viewfinders to compete. EVF with a big external screen makes sense for many environments.

Edmund
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minicoop1985

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Re: Interview with the CEO of Hasselblad – Perry Oosting
« Reply #78 on: February 08, 2016, 10:58:05 am »

I will say, the EVF in my wife's Sony is quite impressive. I much prefer an OVF, but that's personal.

The other thing about that Sony is that not only does it not have a moving mirror (SLT), it has image stabilization. Combine the two and you have a camera that can shoot at very long shutter speeds without notable vibration. If Hasselblad or Phase One took this idea and ran with it, you have what could be one hell of a camera.
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Re: Interview with the CEO of Hasselblad – Perry Oosting
« Reply #79 on: February 08, 2016, 01:02:42 pm »

Α mirrorless MF camera with "traditional" approach similar to Sony's α7 series of cameras but of MF size, would require a completely new series of lenses and would luck the traditional modularity that is bond with MF (having interchangeable finders, backs, screens etc...) In a sense, an MFDB is a mirrorless camera but with no shutter or lens... It would certainly make much sense for users of tech cameras since it would provide them with shutter and (if a Hasselblad) possibly with intergrated multishot ability, but on the other hand, it would not offer more than a FF mirrorless  (if it wouldn't have multishot function) but some temporary IQ advantage that would diminish with time as FF mirrorless would improve with time... Additionally, the image circle would be larger and thus in cases where extreme moves are required, the FF mirrorless would be preferable...

Never the less, the additional sales it would add to a maker, should cut off from the rest of the products the same maker does, and thus it could probably be a project of high risk, especially if the cost of development of such a system (with possibly 6-7 lenses to start with) is encountered. OTOH, if one of the traditional MF makers would pioneer the MF mirrorlens market and given that he would do so with a Sony sensor that is "open" to all makers, one would expect that much cheaper alternatives would appear from mass market camera makers, (much as it happened with the P645 system) but with no disadvantage that P645 exhibits with respect to Hassy or P1 as the mirrorless design doesn't leave much room for body innovation... Therefore, survival would be seriously threatened... With the above in mind, I don't expect an MF mirrorless from other than mass market makers... If I was to bet on a maker to pioneer  an MF mirrorles project, my (guess) bet would go with Fuji...
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