Interview with the CEO of Hasselblad – Perry Oosting

[nik]

I picked up on the price argument too and was glad to hear it. It's what many people here have been saying/shouting/arguing for quite some time. But I'm not sure how they will accomplish that as Swedish craftsmanship isn't and shouldn't be cheap. But I hope this doesn't mean that they take the IKEA business model of selling you the parts and tools to assemble it yourself!

Hi,


Much interesting was that mr Oosten discussed the price point. He said that there is a significant interest in photography in China. It was also discussed that many photographers are willing to buy into MFD, but at a lower price point than the usual one.

I would assume that Hasselblad may choose to have significantly lower prices on some systems than Phase One. They obviously do that with the CFV backs and that has been a great success.

Best regards
Erik

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

I don't think so. The Hasselblad H system has always been reasonably priced, in part due to the cooperation between Fuji and Hasselblad.

What is expensive with MFD are the backs. Now, making an affordable MFD is no rocket engineering, at least not now days. With the older CCD technology there was a lot of analogue design and that part is both complex and difficult.

With the Sony CMOS that all MFD vendors except Leica use most of the hard work had done by Sony. The sensor delivers a digital signal out from the chip.

The back still needs the processing power and firmware to process all the data and this is an area where Phase One excels with the IQ-series.

I am 90% certain that a 50 MP cropped sensor could be made at 50k€  and sold with some profits, but significant sales are needed to finance the RND. From what mr Oosten says in the interview I would be pretty sure that DJI will share some RND with Hasselblad.

I would presume that Hasselblad aims to have a pricing that is quiet a bit below Phase One, but high enough to make good commercial sense.  That price point depends much on their production capability.

Best regards
Erik

I picked up on the price argument too and was glad to hear it. It's what many people here have been saying/shouting/arguing for quite some time. But I'm not sure how they will accomplish that as Swedish craftsmanship isn't and shouldn't be cheap. But I hope this doesn't mean that they take the IKEA business model of selling you the parts and tools to assemble it yourself!

[Theodoros]

I picked up on the price argument too and was glad to hear it. It's what many people here have been saying/shouting/arguing for quite some time. But I'm not sure how they will accomplish that as Swedish craftsmanship isn't and shouldn't be cheap. But I hope this doesn't mean that they take the IKEA business model of selling you the parts and tools to assemble it yourself!

Is this a joke? ...or are you among the masochists who enjoy to pay for equipment three times the price of what it should be priced? ...that's what was happening with MF equipment until last year and its superb news that one of the makers that was following that practice decided different, leaving only one maker stealing people and damaging MF market expansion... Do you really think that 12.5K for an H5-50c is cheap?  ....Well, Hasselblad makes a profit out of it as the product doesn't cost a penny more than H5-40 to make, but Hassy is selling 20 times as many at 25% higher price than what H5-40 used to sell....

[NickT]

Do you really think that 12.5K for an H5-50c is cheap? 

Well I do.

I payed well over twice that for my first 6MP back.

[jduncan]

Well I do.

I payed well over twice that for my first 6MP back.

From the wikipedia, about the IBM PC :
"Although the TV-compatible video board, cassette port and Federal Communications Commission Class B certification were all aimed at making it a home computer,[99] the original PC proved too expensive for the home market. At introduction, a PC with 64 kB of RAM and a single 5.25-inch floppy drive and monitor sold for US $3,005 (equivalent to $7,822 in 2016)"

I will say: the competitive landscape has changed big time.The difference between a  22 pixels back with large photo-sites and a  3 or 6 mp CCD based, crop sensor  DSLR was like night and day. Money for ads were plenty and  and talking about Sports Illustrated if firing all the photographers, crazy talk.

The point is: there is a need to differentiate your work as much as you can. MF is a way and a good priced system could become attractive.  Maybe is too little too late, but we will see.
Best regards,

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

This is something that mr Oosten also touches on in the interview. It seems that a lot of young photographers are craving for MFD, it is seen as the Really Right Stuff, just like RRS :-).

I don't know how much sense MFD actually makes. One way to see it is that a camera is just a tool delivering an image with a given quality. If you can make that image with a cell phone, 4/3, APS-C, 24x36, crop MFD or MFD may matter little. But, everything being equal and DoF/diffraction not taken into account a larger format always have a potential to deliver more.


Best regards
Erik

From the wikipedia, about the IBM PC :
"Although the TV-compatible video board, cassette port and Federal Communications Commission Class B certification were all aimed at making it a home computer,[99] the original PC proved too expensive for the home market. At introduction, a PC with 64 kB of RAM and a single 5.25-inch floppy drive and monitor sold for US $3,005 (equivalent to $7,822 in 2016)"

I will say: the competitive landscape has changed big time.The difference between a  22 pixels back with large photo-sites and a  3 or 6 mp CCD based, crop sensor  DSLR was like night and day. Money for ads were plenty and  and talking about Sports Illustrated if firing all the photographers, crazy talk.

The point is: there is a need to differentiate your work as much as you can. MF is a way and a good priced system could become attractive.  Maybe is too little too late, but we will see.
Best regards,

[Theodoros]

What attracted my attention most, is that Mr. Oosten seems very skeptical for using Sony's 100mp sensor right now although he made clear that they have access to the sensor and very good corporation with Sony. He said that they "will be using 100mp resolution at some point but its got to be done right...." Since he also said that "there are lots of new products that will be introduced in the following 10 months", it may mean that the use of the Sony 100mp sensor won't be among the "lots of new releases" since the phrase "at some point" is different to the "next to be introduced"... If this is the case, it means that Hasselblad will use another sensor for next in the line to the 50mp one and use a FF 100mp sensor later on as being top of the line....

But... if they do so, it means that they are developing an exclusive to them sensor as there is no other than the two Sony sensors accessible in the "open sensor" market...

[nik]

Yes.

Is this a joke?

[nik]

Not cheap, but not bad either.

Do you really think that 12.5K for an H5-50c is cheap?

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

Hasselblad cannot afford to stay behind to long, if they plan to use 100 MP they need to present a roadmap. The main reason is that their present CMOS offering is crop frame. The other reason is that they probably don't want to be behind Phase One.

Now, the 100 MP sensor delivers at least twice the amount of data compared to the older sensors, so Hasselblad needs to beef up processing capability. This is really an effort Phase One made with the original IQ series.

Some of Hasselblad's lenses are calculated for crop frame, they need to recalculate some lenses to cover full frame 645. All that takes some time.

I would guess that we are going to see some roadmap pretty soon.

Another guess I have that Hasselblad is going to set their cameras at a somewhat lower price point. Just as an example:

• Entry level system at 10k€, because I guess that 10k€ will attract a lot of buyers
• Mid range system at 25k€ (based on 100 MP sensor)
• Multishot system at 40k€ also based on the 100 MP sensor
• Present a roadmap in April and offer an affordable upgrade path for all models sold after 1-st of May.

Best regards
Erik

What attracted my attention most, is that Mr. Oosten seems very skeptical for using Sony's 100mp sensor right now although he made clear that they have access to the sensor and very good corporation with Sony. He said that they "will be using 100mp resolution at some point but its got to be done right...." Since he also said that "there are lots of new products that will be introduced in the following 10 months", it may mean that the use of the Sony 100mp sensor won't be among the "lots of new releases" since the phrase "at some point" is different to the "next to be introduced"... If this is the case, it means that Hasselblad will use another sensor for next in the line to the 50mp one and use a FF 100mp sensor later on as being top of the line....

But... if they do so, it means that they are developing an exclusive to them sensor as there is no other than the two Sony sensors accessible in the "open sensor" market...

[Endeavour]

just out of interest. Why would you expect a company, in a competitive market, to publish a roadmap for it's future products?

[Theodoros]

Hasselblad cannot afford to stay behind to long.......

Who told you that by not offering the 100mp sensor makes them "stay behind"? ....I suggest you look back to the interview, Mr. Oosten clearly thinks (and he is right - people in Leica/Sinar also think exactly the same) that 100mp can only be useful with demanding stills (i.e. reproduction work)and they already offer 200mp of true color for that...  Besides, Hasselblad MS backs only cost (traditionally) 5K more than their respective single shot ones...

Now, if you watch back the interview, you may spot the point where Mr.Oosten states that "they are struggling to keep up with demand" with the H5-50c (he also states that demand exceeded their expectations)... which may well mean that they are now selling better than ever... I assure you that Sony's 100mp sensor will be only a small fraction of the total sales of the MF market... I can also assure you that out of the possible customers, one will struggle to find any pros...

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

OK, you put down serious money on an MFD system. Would you buy into a system just offering 1.3X crop CMOS at 50 MP and without any roadmap for the future or with one offering both 50 MP crop frame and 100 MP full frame?

That roadmap thing is important, buyers need to now where a company is heading.

The other thing is that mr Oosting actually said they will support the Sony 100 MP sensor, so the question is not 'if' but 'when'.

Best regards
Erik

Who told you that by not offering the 100mp sensor makes them "stay behind"? ....I suggest you look back to the interview, Mr. Oosten clearly thinks (and he is right - people in Leica/Sinar also think exactly the same) that 100mp can only be useful with demanding stills (i.e. reproduction work)and they already offer 200mp of true color for that...  Besides, Hasselblad MS backs only cost (traditionally) 5K more than their respective single shot ones...

Now, if you watch back the interview, you may spot the point where Mr.Oosten states that "they are struggling to keep up with demand" with the H5-50c (he also states that demand exceeded their expectations)... which may well mean that they are now selling better than ever... I assure you that Sony's 100mp sensor will be only a small fraction of the total sales of the MF market... I can also assure you that out of the possible customers, one will struggle to find any pros...

[Theodoros]

Hi,

OK, you put down serious money on an MFD system. Would you buy into a system just offering 1.3X crop CMOS at 50 MP and without any roadmap for the future or with one offering both 50 MP crop frame and 100 MP full frame?

That roadmap thing is important, buyers need to now where a company is heading.

The other thing is that mr Oosting actually said they will support the Sony 100 MP sensor, so the question is not 'if' but 'when'.

Best regards
Erik

He never said that they will be supporting the Sony 100mp sensor (look it back)... What he said, is that they have access to it and that they will eventually use an 100mp sensor at some point... You seem to be sure that there will be no other Cmos sensors coming than Sony... what makes you so sure?   

IMO, Hasselblad won't be releasing only one more sensor (which might or might not be the Sony 100mp one), but there will be at least one more, exclusive to them sensor... In fact, it won't surprise me at all if they first release an intermediate to the the two Sony sensors exclusive to them sensor and then either expand the same to FF for their top model, or use the 100mp Sony sensor...

[ErikKaffehr]

Listen one more time, he says: Well, absolutely! Than he elaborates on sensor grades and says electronics need to be redesigned the amount of data and it needs to be done the right way.

Best regards
Erik

He never said that they will be supporting the Sony 100mp sensor (look it back)... What he said, is that they have access to it and that they will eventually use an 100mp sensor at some point... You seem to be sure that there will be no other Cmos sensors coming than Sony... what makes you so sure?   

IMO, Hasselblad won't be releasing only one more sensor (which might or might not be the Sony 100mp one), but there will be at least one more, exclusive to them sensor... In fact, it won't surprise me at all if they first release an intermediate to the the two Sony sensors exclusive to them sensor and then either expand the same to FF for their top model, or use the 100mp Sony sensor...

[Theodoros]

Listen one more time, he says: Well, absolutely! Than he elaborates on sensor grades and says electronics need to be redesigned the amount of data and it needs to be done the right way.

Best regards
Erik

He never said that the electronics need to be redesigned... what he practically says is that the quality of a camera is the total thing (lenses, sensor and electronic control of the (increasded) aberrations, so one has to be careful as to do it right... Also... his name is Oosten... you better edit it as to correct it. The "well absolutely" phrase goes with "we will be releasing an 100mp sensor at some point"... I believe it is not a priority to them because they feel (rightfully) that there is very little financial interest behind the 100mp sensor due to the very limited number of customers that would be interested...

[eronald]

They've had at least four years to redesign their electronics. In fact I would bet that they got the specs of the 100MP interfaces at the same time as they got the 50MP ones. What is really happening is that at some point they need some major redo to turn the H into a mirrorless system with main sensor focus, and such a body is just a dumb box with a lensmount an EVF and some buttons so the cost will go down substantially.

Interestingly, a liveview CMOS MF back Hasselblad camera could probably also take a really cheap 36x24 back or even various small square sensors eg 36x36 with minimal electronic redesign leaving space for a whole range of entry level Hasselblad products around $5K

Edmund

Listen one more time, he says: Well, absolutely! Than he elaborates on sensor grades and says electronics need to be redesigned the amount of data and it needs to be done the right way.

Best regards
Erik

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

You obviously did that part of the discussion. For your convenience here is a link for that part of the interview: http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/Articles/Divstuff/HasselBladCEO.mov

He says "Well, absolutely!" as the first answer, talks about redesigning electronics, and finishes with "open to 100MP". The last part is not very firm of course.

Hopefully it is OK with LuLa to share a link to the cropped down interview.

Best regards
Erik

He never said that the electronics need to be redesigned... what he practically says is that the quality of a camera is the total thing (lenses, sensor and electronic control of the (increasded) aberrations, so one has to be careful as to do it right... Also... his name is Oosten... you better edit it as to correct it. The "well absolutely" phrase goes with "we will be releasing an 100mp sensor at some point"... I believe it is not a priority to them because they feel (rightfully) that there is very little financial interest behind the 100mp sensor due to the very limited number of customers that would be interested...

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

Both Phase One and Hasselblad have mirrorless cameras already, but those are intended for aerial photography.

Best regards
Erik

They've had at least four years to redesign their electronics. In fact I would bet that they got the specs of the 100MP interfaces at the same time as they got the 50MP ones. What is really happening is that at some point they need some major redo to turn the H into a mirrorless system with main sensor focus, and such a body is just a dumb box with a lensmount an EVF and some buttons so the cost will go down substantially.

Interestingly, a liveview CMOS MF back Hasselblad camera could probably also take a really cheap 36x24 back or even various small square sensors eg 36x36 with minimal electronic redesign leaving space for a whole range of entry level Hasselblad products around $5K

Edmund

[NickT]

100MP very soon.