Interview with the CEO of Hasselblad – Perry Oosting

[Theodoros]

My only doubt is whether 44x33mm will persist or eventually get squeezed out for not offering a sufficient IQ advantage over the ever-improving 36x24mm offerings.

....or it may be the other way around... meaning 54x40.5 being squeezed out for not offering sufficient IQ advantage over the 44x33 sensors...

Mind you that 44x33 sensors are in much more demand than 54x40.5 ones for some years now and Hasselblad's sales for 2015 were almost entirely 44x33 sensors... add to that P645 sales... In addition, 44x33 sensors are much more friendly with image circles when used with tech camera for movements, they are much cheaper, they use the best part of the lens glass and with 24mm lenses around from almost all makers, they provide WA view ability better than ever when compared to any system from the film days...

May be at the end of the day 48/9x36/7 sensors will prove the optimum in size for digital as they are both friendly with image circles of lenses for tech cameras, they leave out exactly the part of lenses that is better left out thus making systems "aperture faster", they cost almost as much as 44x33 sensors and they can go UWA with 24mm lenses... In fact, it won't surprise me if Hasselblad introduces that size a sensor as being "intermediate" to their 44x33 and upcoming 54x40.9 one... After all, they have a tradition of big sales for this size of sensor with all their 22mp,39mp and 50mp Kodak sensors selling better than their cheaper 44x33 ones...

[Doug Peterson]

....or it may be the other way around... meaning 54x40.5 being squeezed out for not offering sufficient IQ advantage over the 44x33 sensors...

Mind you that 44x33 sensors are in much more demand than 54x40.5 ones for some years now and Hasselblad's sales for 2015 were almost entirely 44x33 sensors... add to that P645 sales... In addition, 44x33 sensors are much more friendly with image circles when used with tech camera for movements, they are much cheaper, they use the best part of the lens glass and with 24mm lenses around from almost all makers, they provide WA view ability better than ever when compared to any system from the film days...

May be at the end of the day 48/9x36/7 sensors will prove the optimum in size for digital as they are both friendly with image circles of lenses for tech cameras, they leave out exactly the part of lenses that is better left out thus making systems "aperture faster", they cost almost as much as 44x33 sensors and they can go UWA with 24mm lenses... In fact, it won't surprise me if Hasselblad introduces that size a sensor as being "intermediate" to their 44x33 and upcoming 54x40.9 one... After all, they have a tradition of big sales for this size of sensor with all their 22mp,39mp and 50mp Kodak sensors selling better than their cheaper 44x33 ones...

For what it's worth most of our sales (unit sales and revenue wise) in 2015 were full frame sensors. But at Phase One we have nine back models we commonly sell with full frame sensors and only three crop sensor backs.

With the demand we are seeing for new IQ3 100mp I suspect the same thing will be true (for Phase One) in 2016. Given the dominant market share Phase One has, I suspect most backs sold in 2016 will be full frame, but it's obviously only speculation.

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

I sort of agree regarding the 33x44 mm sensors. A great sensor but it needs ultra wides designed for it. I guess that the main reason for them is affordability.

Looking at Phase One, they have a high end CMOS offering at 100 MP full frame and a high end CMOS offering in crop frame. The IQ 360 (?) is a full frame CCD back sitting in between.

So the 60 MP CCD back is in an interesting position…

Best regards
Erik

I can see several ways to improve focusing precision with these high resolution sensors, but they all involve using the main sensor and so having no mirror in the way, and so would benefit from an EVF, even if only as an accessory for an SLR to improve the Live View mode experience:
- magnified live view for manual focusing
- on-sensor AF with CDAF and/or the newer in-sensor PDAF technology – which Sony has, so could offer in its larger-than-35mm-format sensors some day.

My bet is on CDAF, since AF speed is the main advantage of PDAF, and that seems a lower priority than accuracy  in the larger formats, so the cost of modifying the sensor to add PDAF sensors is probably not worth it.


Apart from that, the main news from that Hssselblad interview for me is that Sony does indeed seem to plan on offering all its CMOS sensors to all makers, even if Phase One has a temporary exclusive, and the MF makes are all heading that way, phasing out CCDs.  Given the higher overhead of developing each new CMOS sensor compared to CCDs, and thus the greater incentive to keep unit sales up for each sensor model (along with the desirability of matching wide-angle lens designs to a particular format size) I predict a settling on just these two sensor formats larger than 36x24mm: 54x40mm for approximately full 645 format and optimal usage of 645 lenses, and 44x33mm for lower cost "entry-level" options.  (But always with Leica doing its own thing.)  My only doubt is whether 44x33mm will persist or eventually get squeezed out for not offering a sufficient IQ advantage over the ever-improving 36x24mm offerings.

[landscapephoto]

Considering the limitations of traditional AF on large viewfinders (central point), the logical way forward for MF is high res EVF to enable accurate manual focusing.

This is quite strange. With the present H camera, I just need to point the central point at the part I want in focus, press the focus button and voilà! it is pin-sharp, even if I recompose the picture. Why would I need to concern myself with manual focus?

The problem is that the current H platform probably doesn't allow this due to platform limitations while the XF apparently does.

I'll tell you a little secret: Hasselblad cameras have had a live view mode for manual focus for the last ten years. It needs Phocus to work, it looks ugly, but it is here. So the camera is not a problem.

[TonyVentourisPhotography]

Actually, you can live view with all the H cameras even if you use an H1, 2, 4x, etc... with a Phase back.  When hooked up to C1, go into live viewmode and just put the Hassy body in mirror up.  I do this all the time.  It's crude, but then again, all the P-backs with tethered live view were crude.  I really love the Hasselblad system.  I just never liked the H3D backs so I went with Phase for a sensor.   

[Theodoros]

For what it's worth most of our sales (unit sales and revenue wise) in 2015 were full frame sensors. But at Phase One we have nine back models we commonly sell with full frame sensors and only three crop sensor backs.

With the demand we are seeing for new IQ3 100mp I suspect the same thing will be true (for Phase One) in 2016. Given the dominant market share Phase One has, I suspect most backs sold in 2016 will be full frame, but it's obviously only speculation.

it is explainable... since Hasselblad and P645 dominated the 44x33 sales, P1 was left with the rest... I guess it will last for a while until there is competition with larger sensors...

[gavincato]

Shame about Zeiss & V lenses - I would pay a obscene amount of money for a updated autofocus version of the 110/2. What a magical lens.

[NickT]

Shame about Zeiss & V lenses - I would pay a obscene amount of money for a updated autofocus version of the 110/2. What a magical lens.

The 100 2.2 is quite nice just FYI.

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

It is my understanding that Zeiss is out of the MF business, but that decision may of course be reverted if demand is high enough and Zeiss is asked to build lenses.

The good thing is that mr Ousting pointed out that 550 000 V-series cameras have been sold and that represents a significant market for digital backs. The FVC backs have been a great financial success.

With live view, focusing is easy, at least for static objects. I would not be horribly surprised if Hasselblad developed an EVF-body for the V-series lenses. It is a no brainer. You just need to add a device to cock and release a shutter.

Best regards
Erik

Shame about Zeiss & V lenses - I would pay a obscene amount of money for a updated autofocus version of the 110/2. What a magical lens.

[NickT]

You just need to add a device to cock and release a shutter.

You know that already exists right Erik?

[nik]

The one thing I never got from the interview is the relationship with Fuji regarding the H platform. My understanding is that Fuji manufactures the H system and lenses for Hasselblad and sells the camera in Japan under the Fuji brand. Now that they are bringing back 'all the company in one place' does that include manufacturing? Mr Oosting mentioned the benefit of Swedish craftmanship (something I agree with).

So, can someone (maybe from Hasselblad in Sweden?) explain the relationship with Fuji? Specifically licensing & manufacturing including with 3rd parties (e.g. Zeiss).

Thank You.

Hi,

Lot of good news, I would say. Some of them:

- Hasselblad moving back it's origins, all the company in one place in Gothenburg Sweden.
- Getting finances right
- Lot of R&D going on
- Interesting to hear that CFV backs are a major success
- Hasselblad may be aiming at a lower price point
- CMOS sensors are major focus - 100 MP coming but no hurry
- Institutional sales significant - he mentions multishot several times
- Revitalised interest in MFD - not least in China
- New entrants into the market, Pentax being an example. They here the same rumors as other.

Also seems that mr. Oosting is a rather hands on kind of manager.

As a small side comment, the 100 MP sensor by Phase One is a major step into right direction, not just because the 100 MP but foremost because it is full frame 645.

An interesting point mr Ousting said that there is a break point in pricing where cost of entry is acceptable and selling at that price point yields a lot of new sales. Hasselblad has lowered the price on the H5D and has problems to keep up with orders, a nice problem to have.

Best regards
Erik

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

Fuji makes lenses for Hasselblad and I also guess most of the mechanical parts for the H-series. Hasselblad makes the shutters. Assembly is in Gothenburg, Sweden. Optical design is shared between Hasselblad and Fuji. My understanding is that Hasselblad makes the initial optical design but Fuji optimises it for production.

Fuji used to sell the H-series with Fuji nameplate in Japan, I don't know if they still do.

Best regards
Erik

The one thing I never got from the interview is the relationship with Fuji regarding the H platform. My understanding is that Fuji manufactures the H system and lenses for Hasselblad and sells the camera in Japan under the Fuji brand. Now that they are bringing back 'all the company in one place' does that include manufacturing? Mr Oosting mentioned the benefit of Swedish craftmanship (something I agree with).

So, can someone (maybe from Hasselblad in Sweden?) explain the relationship with Fuji? Specifically licensing & manufacturing including with 3rd parties (e.g. Zeiss).

Thank You.

[Bo Dez]

In my opinion, Hasselblad should go back to their roots with V mount, develop a modern 500 series camera (a la Hy6) with full frame 6x6 sensor and autofocus Zeiss lenses, and hopefully with backward compatibility. I think there's a lot of appetite for that.

+1

[Bo Dez]

The 100 2.2 is quite nice just FYI.

It's OK. It's nothing like the magic of the 100 planar though. Fuji Bokeh is very unattractive in my opinion.

[Bo Dez]

Shame about Zeiss & V lenses - I would pay a obscene amount of money for a updated autofocus version of the 110/2. What a magical lens.

+1

[NickT]

Fuji make the lenses and viewfinder (i.e. all the glass bits) to Hasselblad design, (I assume with their expertise Fujinon will have some input too.

The shutters and bodies are made in Sweden

The backs were being made in Denmark but now Sweden.

Fuji did have the rights for a while to sell a Fuji branded 645 in Japan but i think this is no longer the case, I will check.

[nik]

Thanks for the responses so far. Regarding lenses, could anyone license the H mount and related tech and manufacture lenses for the H ? e.g., what Zeiss does with Canon/Nikon etc.

Fuji make the lenses and viewfinder (i.e. all the glass bits) to Hasselblad design, (I assume with their expertise Fujinon will have some input too.

The shutters and bodies are made in Sweden

The backs were being made in Denmark but now Sweden.

Fuji did have the rights for a while to sell a Fuji branded 645 in Japan but i think this is no longer the case, I will check.

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

Some small observations:

Mr. Oosten discussed the cooperation with DJI and made it pretty clear that it was not about a specific product. He talked much about the engineering competence of DJI, so it may be presumed that DJI may do some development work for Hasselblad.

There was also a discussion about aerial photography, business opportunity where Hasselblad is engaged.

It seems that Hasselblad is also heavily engaged in "institutional photography", just like Phase One. In that area they have the advantage of multishot techniques.

Much interesting was that mr Oosten discussed the price point. He said that there is a significant interest in photography in China. It was also discussed that many photographers are willing to buy into MFD, but at a lower price point than the usual one.

I would assume that Hasselblad may choose to have significantly lower prices on some systems than Phase One. They obviously do that with the CFV backs and that has been a great success.

Interesting stuff… I would say really good news for Hasselblad.

Best regards
Erik

[Theodoros]

Fuji make the lenses and viewfinder (i.e. all the glass bits) to Hasselblad design, (I assume with their expertise Fujinon will have some input too.

The shutters and bodies are made in Sweden

The backs were being made in Denmark but now Sweden.

Fuji did have the rights for a while to sell a Fuji branded 645 in Japan but i think this is no longer the case, I will check.

Its only prediction who makes what with Hassy... but traditionally, Hassy never made lenses (Zeiss did in the past) and thus one could assume that they just didn't learn how to do great lenses... they just found another deal with Fuji (another traditional maker of great lenses) and they moved ahead with the H system... OTH it is reasonable from the H body functioning, for one to conclude that it is an 100% Hassy design... It's got LS and its got the "closets" to seal the light sensitive area as all Hasselblad (and no other) traditionally does...

[bpepz]

In my opinion, Hasselblad should go back to their roots with V mount, develop a modern 500 series camera (a la Hy6) with full frame 6x6 sensor and autofocus Zeiss lenses, and hopefully with backward compatibility. I think there's a lot of appetite for that.

Hmmm, not sure I would really like that. I think the Fuji designed lenses and coatings for H mount are pretty kick ass. The EBC coatings and Fuji lenses are pretty much the entire reason I went with the H system. I Originally shot with a Fuji gx680 and nothing can beat it on the "3d" feel, color and contrast. However, the H lenses come very very close. If anything, I think its the lenses that are Hasselblad's strongest points. Screw this digital back stuff. They need to made a special adapter to use the H lenses on sony mount with a built in focal reducer and retain the  leaf shutter ability. I would gladly pay the premium. I would be able to get a medium format look and leaf shutter for my flash work all on sony e mount. Sorry for the tangent