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Author Topic: Help with extracting letters  (Read 7321 times)

SZRitter

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Re: Help with extracting letters
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2016, 04:43:34 pm »

I'm just curious, if this is just an exercise for exercise's sake, or if this is actually for a client. If for a client, have you contacted the sign maker to see if they still have the vector for the sign?

As for an answer, I have a good friend who is a sign maker, and he is often stuck making vectors from things like this. He usually, if I understand his process correctly, boosts the contrast as much as possible to get defined edges then uses live trace or traces it by hand (Wacom tablets are grand). Expect cleanup for a lot of things after the trace.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Help with extracting letters
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2016, 04:54:24 pm »

I'm just curious, if this is just an exercise for exercise's sake, or if this is actually for a client. If for a client, have you contacted the sign maker to see if they still have the vector for the sign?...

I am actually preparing a jewelry image (square) for the client and this would go as a logo underneath, on a 20"x30" image size. Good idea about the sign maker, will have to check with the client.

BobDavid

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Re: Help with extracting letters
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2016, 10:37:11 am »

If they work with a graphic designer, I'm sure there is a vectorized version--especially for business cards, collateral, etc. Maybe the client has files available.
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tom b

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Re: Help with extracting letters
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2016, 11:31:40 am »

Yep, an interesting Photoshop question. Copyright however, is a whole new ball game.

Cheers,
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Tom Brown

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Help with extracting letters
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2016, 01:34:27 pm »

Copyright however, is a whole new ball game...

What do you mean by that?

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Help with extracting letters
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2016, 01:53:29 pm »

It is pretty simple, you are trying to copy a copyright logo....

Except for the fact that the owner of the logo hired me to do it.

tom b

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Re: Help with extracting letters
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2016, 02:13:36 pm »

There is a disconnect, any professional logo has many uses, stationery, branding, hoardings or whatever. I would be very sceptical of any company that says it has the copyright to a logo but doesn't have files to reproduce the logo.

Cheers,
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Tom Brown

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Help with extracting letters
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2016, 02:36:11 pm »

...I would be very sceptical of any company that says it has the copyright to a logo but doesn't have files to reproduce the logo.

I would be skeptical too, if the owner of, say, this business:

"Shoe Repair by Tom"

would ask me to do a logo for:

"Fiancee Jewelry by Pierre"

 ;)

For what it is worth, I am in the process of obtaining those files.

SZRitter

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Re: Help with extracting letters
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2016, 02:40:47 pm »

There is a disconnect, any professional logo has many uses, stationery, branding, hoardings or whatever. I would be very sceptical of any company that says it has the copyright to a logo but doesn't have files to reproduce the logo.

Cheers,

I wouldn't be. I see it all too often, small businesses go out and get a logo made by a designer (or signmaker/print shop for that matter), and they don't retain any files themselves. Most business owners don't understand what a vector copy of the logo is, let alone why they should save the file. And I would be skeptical of any designer that, after making the logo, doesn't give the client unlimited reproduction rights.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Help with extracting letters
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2016, 02:45:51 pm »

I wouldn't be. I see it all too often, small businesses go out and get a logo made by a designer (or signmaker/print shop for that matter), and they don't retain any files themselves. Most business owners don't understand what a vector copy of the logo is, let alone why they should save the file. And I would be skeptical of any designer that, after making the logo, doesn't give the client unlimited reproduction rights.

Thank you, that is exactly the case.

tom b

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Re: Help with extracting letters
« Reply #30 on: January 29, 2016, 02:59:39 pm »

"And I would be skeptical of any designer that, after making the logo, doesn't give the client unlimited reproduction rights."

WTF, photographers keep their copyright but designers just give up their copyright! It is a strange, strange world.

"Most business owners don't understand what a vector copy of the logo is, let alone why they should save the file."

Yep, and they don't understand copyright.

Cheers,

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Tom Brown

Peano

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Re: Help with extracting letters
« Reply #31 on: January 29, 2016, 03:09:27 pm »

If you're not an attorney who specializes in copyright law, it's a probably wise not to offer advice about copyright issues. It's an extremely complex area of law. Even attorneys who don't specialize in it will usually hesitate to offer advice.

SZRitter

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Re: Help with extracting letters
« Reply #32 on: January 29, 2016, 03:13:24 pm »

"And I would be skeptical of any designer that, after making the logo, doesn't give the client unlimited reproduction rights."

WTF, photographers keep their copyright but designers just give up their copyright! It is a strange, strange world.

"Most business owners don't understand what a vector copy of the logo is, let alone why they should save the file."

Yep, and they don't understand copyright.

Cheers,

*cough* read better*cough*

I said "unlimited reproduction rights", that isn't the same as copyright. The designer can still hold the copyright but allow the client to reproduce as they see fit. In the case of logos, I would argue that is extremely common, as how many of us want to pay for a logo only to be used once? And many photographers do the same with their images. Companies, such as the one I work for, like to have catalogs of images they can go to anytime and use as they need, instead of contacting the photographer and paying each time we use it. We, of course, pay the rate the photographer negotiates full well knowing this is the case, plainly written in the contract.
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SZRitter

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Re: Help with extracting letters
« Reply #33 on: January 29, 2016, 03:15:33 pm »

If you're not an attorney who specializes in copyright law, it's a probably wise not to offer advice about copyright issues. It's an extremely complex area of law. Even attorneys who don't specialize in it will usually hesitate to offer advice.

I wish there was a way to upvote this. And yes, I realize that is kind of what I am doing, and probably should shut my own mouth.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2016, 03:23:15 pm by SZRitter »
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Help with extracting letters
« Reply #34 on: January 29, 2016, 03:23:12 pm »

WTF, photographers keep their copyright but designers just give up their copyright! It is a strange, strange world...

Yes, especially when you don't know enough about it.

Photographers also "give up" their copyright when they do "work for hire," just as logo designers do. Or they give unlimited reproduction rights. Or transfer their copyright, etc.

tom b

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Re: Help with extracting letters
« Reply #35 on: January 29, 2016, 03:39:29 pm »

Yes, especially when you don't know enough about it.

Photographers also "give up" their copyright when they do "work for hire," just as logo designers do. Or they give unlimited reproduction rights. Or transfer their copyright, etc.

Yes, and if they do they give their files to the client.

The missing part of the equation. Why not just go to the source?

Cheers,
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Tom Brown

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Help with extracting letters
« Reply #36 on: January 29, 2016, 03:49:24 pm »

... The missing part of the equation. Why not just go to the source?...


... I am in the process of obtaining those files.

Peano

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Re: Help with extracting letters
« Reply #37 on: January 29, 2016, 07:19:04 pm »

Not to beat a dead lawyer, but here is one of my favorite examples of the difficulty of copyright law:

Jones, a photographer and graphic designer, creates a poster for a band to use on a concert tour. The next year, another poster, another tour -- and so on for many years. Smith, an author, decides to write a history of the band covering 30 years of its career. He discovers the posters produced over the years by Jones, who still holds the copyright.

Smith negotiates with Jones to use the posters in his book, but they can’t agree on a fee. So Smith decides to use the posters anyway. He places reduced copies of the images throughout his book to illustrate the group’s concerts over the years.

Jones sues Smith for copyright infringement. Smith claims it’s fair use, so he didn’t violate the copyright.

I think most laymen would say that Jones should prevail, because Smith used Jones's images without permission or compensation and even published them in a book that Smith then sold for profit. But in fact (and this was an actual case), Smith prevailed twice -- once at the trial level and again on appeal. Both courts ruled that it was fair use, no copyright violation.

If you find that perplexing, take it as a lesson in the perplexities and complexities of copyright law.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2016, 07:22:52 pm by Peano »
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Help with extracting letters
« Reply #38 on: April 22, 2016, 06:32:42 pm »

Thanks everyone for the input. I'll keep you posted.

Once again, thanks everyone for the input. In the meantime, I got the original vector file from the sign maker to combine with my photographs and this is the result:
« Last Edit: April 22, 2016, 06:50:33 pm by Slobodan Blagojevic »
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Eric Myrvaagnes

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Re: Help with extracting letters
« Reply #39 on: April 23, 2016, 12:03:21 am »

Very classy result. I'm glad you were able to get the original vector file.
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-Eric Myrvaagnes (visit my website: http://myrvaagnes.com)
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