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Author Topic: Super 8 revival  (Read 4462 times)

fredjeang2

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fredjeang2

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Re: Super 8 revival
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2016, 12:33:44 pm »

At first I thought that it was going to be a digital super 8 from Kodak in the line of the digital Bolex. But it will be indeed a film camera. Weired commercial strategy I must say.

"Kodak chief Jeff Clarke told the Wall Street Journal that the film will cost $50 to $75 a cartridge, and the camera itself will set you back $400 to $750. After processing, you’ll also have two options for media: either digital copies of your home movies or 8-millimeter film you can put in a projector."

It seems really crazy. Who is gona bite on this? A cheap full digital camera in the spirit of the BMpocket, with fixed lens and super8 design could have been a winner...but a film camera at the cost of film?
« Last Edit: January 26, 2016, 12:40:22 pm by fredjeang2 »
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Christopher Sanderson

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Re: Super 8 revival
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2016, 04:30:57 pm »

But it has 'leather-trimmed' handles... :o

fredjeang2

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Re: Super 8 revival
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2016, 12:31:58 am »

But it has 'leather-trimmed' handles... :o

Très chic! C'est vrai.

At the cost of film, I want one with a lizzard skin
And a Balenciaga logo.

We'd need an unreliable Triumph Spitfire remake to drive to the
French Riviera with a bunch of pinups filming the trip to BB's house in super 8.

Finaly Rob has his cine camera. (but Rob was a scotish spy in the golden age, in the very line
Of  Dusko Popov as he drove the Ford Escort XR instead...)
« Last Edit: January 27, 2016, 12:37:54 am by fredjeang2 »
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mbaginy

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Re: Super 8 revival
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2016, 06:53:09 am »

"Kodak chief Jeff Clarke told the Wall Street Journal that the film will cost $50 to $75 a cartridge, and the camera itself will set you back $400 to $750. After processing, you’ll also have two options for media: either digital copies of your home movies or 8-millimeter film you can put in a projector."
I'd love to see Kodak back on a track to success but truly doubt this newest camera will be anything close to a true seller.  While I'm still debating the analog & scanning route for myself (I like the "film look"), this Super 8 film pricing is simply far too expensive!  And I foresee film pricing in general rising.  Fujifilm just announced price increases due to high cost compared with sales volumes.
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fredjeang2

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Re: Super 8 revival
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2016, 11:04:04 am »

It's just another look, another tool.    I like the look of jumpy flashing film.   I would never use it on a period piece, but shoot something modern with it to separate yourself from the herd.

I'd probably go with those pro 8 people, have used them before, though their telecine isn't that great, but hey it might be worth a try with Kodak, or spend the money for a good three light look in super 16.

There is so much digital video out there, some beautiful, most just digital looking, that trying to produce the analog look in post takes foreve, though as we all know, once you've shot it on film, your stuck with it, at least in the smaller formats.

IMO

BC

But this "another look" is already there.

IMO, the Digital Bolex is the perfect balance for having, let's say "closest as possible to film-look" right-out the box and by far more versatile than a film camera.
The file look of the DB are indeed very different than the rest.

It seems that in what Kodak is concerned, the cost of the Lab is included in the Price of the film. But...they say during a year. What about when this year is completed?
So it's going to be 50 + something....
Each time you shoot you'd burn about 100 bucks and some delays for the lab...

Also, nothing as been said about the scaned files they deliver (if you choose this option). Will they be a workable standart in post? what is the reso? etc...no, that I know, communication from Kodak in those aspects.

To some extend it reminds me a bit the Kodak dslr (you remember?) that ended to be a failure compared to the Canon at that time. And fair to say that Michael actually took a risk being independant and say what he had to say knowing that it could "sink" the product and maybe put some people in unemployement. Kodak is a strange company nowdays. They have hard time to adapt themselves to the current reality. Their proposal is nice on the paper but really not commercialy reasonable.


In those conditions, I don't imagine this camera really useable for people who work. Probably more a marketing product aimed at a sophisticated niche market who wants a nostalgic experience.

If Kodak deliver a digital 8mm at less than 800, even with 70's plastic finish instead of leather if yhey really insist on a vintage taste... but great file look in the line of the Bolex they could have a winner, it would be a cheap affordable Bolex that many consummers could buy. But this is very much like the Lomo.

Truly, the Bolex is currently by far the very best option to get to the film look without almost no post, and no hassles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKE5-naRAME
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aF-AqudRhCQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mn30qtdUJhQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKJyMgDCnqQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Bz_Rgnorp4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dgBgKGXM2Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2iun_OQfh8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ix7IM-5YNXA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Nw3VLPNSLw
etc...

This is an accelerated world. People want fast solutions, and cheap. Only when you got money you can afford let's say an hand-made car with a year or so waiting cue. Good manufactured products cost money.

Before, doing a "homemade" film was not accesible to the worker, precisely because of the ecosystem Kodak is trying to rebuild now. So it's a camera that will cost in a year, if you shoot reasonably, thousands of euros but without really being a high-end product.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2016, 11:16:18 am by fredjeang2 »
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Christopher Sanderson

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Re: Super 8 revival
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2016, 11:11:35 am »

My post about leather trim was only partly ironic.

It would appear that there is a ready and very large market for the retro look and feel in China. That may be the intended market (along with a few European & N. American customers with a taste for Retro.)

fredjeang2

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Re: Super 8 revival
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2016, 11:24:17 am »

My post about leather trim was only partly ironic.

It would appear that there is a ready and very large market for the retro look and feel in China. That may be the intended market (along with a few European & N. American customers with a taste for Retro.)

I agree, and yeah, I don't know why but Asia as a special taste for those vintage stuff. In fact I do know why: they have the new-rich syndrom. They turn themselves towards a capitalist identity that they didn't get but we in Europe and the States in the golen 30's. In french: les trente glorieuses.   

I tell you something. Jay Leno understood what the Fiat 500 turbo is about and loves it. Also a remake of the legendary vintage 500. I have one also, BUT...it is NOT 70's technology at all. Best (funniest) car I ever drove (and I drove many sports cars). No consumming, no polution, almost no maintenance and power. But more importantly: fun to drive. Real driving. (although I did loong trips with and the engine noise is a bit too much for long drives. I had to slow down after being caught many times by police radars)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywmtrrFf4xo

This is what I find great about the Bolex, in the same spirit it is a vintage camera but with all the goodies of current tech.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2016, 11:36:12 am by fredjeang2 »
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fredjeang2

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Re: Super 8 revival
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2016, 02:24:33 pm »

Lol...that's what you call a small car? It is huge!
Ok, small according to L.A standarts.

I admit it has personality. The thing about the Fiat
Is that I'm 1.70 height, wich is small, same as Al Paccino.
That always reassure me when I think about my small size.
But the poor J.Leno has hard time to get out of his Fiat.
Cause he looks tall.

As you say, small cars are fun to drive.

Thank god you didn't get the M3. In Europe they are
The cars of the drug dealers and regarded as lacking
Class (or elegance). Indeed good engine but the look
Is banal. Just the M logo and tyres differs from outside.

The funny story is I bought mine in a Ferrari dealer by accident.
I asked the vendor why they had a few Fiat turbo in the
Middle of their Ferraris and he expained me that most of
Their clients drive the Ferraris on sundays, and take the 500
Daily. Lol! But true.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2016, 02:32:50 pm by fredjeang2 »
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fredjeang2

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Re: Super 8 revival
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2016, 03:13:51 pm »

Coot Ps: you're right saying "under certain conditions"
Regarding film look.

My infos are only from other's experience as I do not posess
A Bolex. But it seems to be that the Bolex files right-out the box
Are easier than others to get to film. Is it really the truth?
It seems that it might be indeed right but we've been fooled
So many times by reputations or rumors...

Maybe the secret is the CCD sensor and not CMOS.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2016, 03:18:45 pm by fredjeang2 »
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fredjeang2

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Re: Super 8 revival
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2016, 09:33:31 am »

Something I'd like to point about "film look" is that
IMO one important ingredient of the equation maybe are the lenses.

Even more importantly than the speedbooster to try to recover
The "missing DOF", using vintage lenses that can lack
Performances of what's produced currently but have more
Personality can help a lot to reach the organicness required
If I might say.

Some ebayed vintage glasses that cost me around 100 euros Can bring incredible results.

edit: nope! since the last time I ebayed prices have jumped to the stratosfere, specialy in C-mount.
Not worth! it's now speculative.


Obviously, if you start from a super detailed surgical imagery,
Getting to the "film look" will remain more difficult in post
Because you might get the tones right but the image is
Still going to look artificial in a way. (too video-like)

So it is all the chain that is involved. And I think the lenses
Are a key point. Some super16 vintage, very cheap, can
Actually be better. Most lack performances but they got
Special look and even color cast right out the box.

Ergonomicaly, I have a few of those vintage stuff on the Pocket
As they are smaller you end with a very small-light package
That free yourself from rigging big. Just a good variable ND, step-up rings
 (Not always easy to find)
and focussing like in the good old days with the left hand.

In other words, it is going in the exact opposite of the current
Tendency of 4, 6 k, hyper-ultra-sharp lenses, small cameras
That in the end become as big as an Alexa once rigged and so on.

Just a small cam, small vintage super16 glass, a handgrip and
Good to go. And as for the audio...well...hiring a tech so no
Extra stuff with more rigg and naughty cablery.

All that should takes place
In a small leather vintage bag from Vuitton. (for Chris). So Coot
Can finaly sell his enormous black car and get a Fiat 500! (no R1 fits
In the bag compartment of it, or car boot you say?)

Ps Coot: actually if you bought the Fiat, something is going to happen:
Your wife will want to drive it all the time and you'll never
Be able to get your hands on it. That's why Jay had to bought 2, one
For his wife otherwise he would never see it.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2016, 01:15:05 pm by fredjeang2 »
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