Can we avoid kitsch photography?

[Tim Lookingbill]

How does one know it is unique if they haven't seen all of the others?

I take it you didn't catch the point about people looking at all the trillion other sunsets online. A lot of photographers from what I've seen take sunsets because their sunsets and it really shows TO ME. It's clear they just pointed and took the shot. No thought put into it.

I don't know what others see but it doesn't take a huge amount of investigative deduction from what's available online now to be confident that others who don't have a trained eye or aren't some simpleton just coming out of their cave that art appreciation is getting a tin eye due to information overload having to view a lot of crap and copies of crap.

It's really not hard to see whether a photographer or any creative person in communication arts has a discerning eye. I saw this in spades recently from an antique collector and interior designer who started a little shop around the corner in my small town. She and her husband travel around Europe making very good choices (like photographers should) buying furniture and collectibles artfully arranged in interesting compositions for patrons to browse throughout the shop.

It was a journey of discovery for me because I've never seen a lot of these items, especially the clever arrangements. I could see the talent and intelligence in this woman's decision making while most patrons just glanced around and left without a word with some complaining about the prices of each item and others taking random shots with their cell phone without any thought behind noticing these beautifully arranged compositions. I took 5 hours shooting this shop and I still wasn't done capturing all the interesting compositions.

Can a photographer show that they can make the same intelligent choices and convey that in their images similar to what this woman has done with collectibles? Where is the talent? Where is the source of the originality? The photographer taking the picture or the woman who created the compositions for the photographer to take notice while others didn't?

[Isaac]

… may lead to the appreciation of kitsch "as an ironic, aesthetic stance opposing the accepted notions of 'good taste'."

[MattBurt]

I think the short answer to the question posed in the subject line is no.

[kers]

can we avoid kitsch discussions? 

I think the short answer to the question posed in the subject line is no.

[stamper]

I think that before a conclusion of the debate on kitsch has run it's course then deciding what subjectivism is has to be debated because kitsch and subjectivism are definitely intertwined?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subjectivism

 

[stamper]

Quote Tim Reply#42.


I take it you didn't catch the point about people looking at all the trillion other sunsets online.

unquote

I don't think anyone has the time - certainly not me - to look at that many sunsets?

[Paulo Bizarro]

 She and her husband travel around Europe making very good choices (like photographers should) buying furniture and collectibles artfully arranged in interesting compositions for patrons to browse throughout the shop.

It was a journey of discovery for me because I've never seen a lot of these items, especially the clever arrangements. I could see the talent and intelligence in this woman's decision making while most patrons just glanced around and left without a word with some complaining about the prices of each item and others taking random shots with their cell phone without any thought behind noticing these beautifully arranged compositions. I took 5 hours shooting this shop and I still wasn't done capturing all the interesting compositions.

Can a photographer show that they can make the same intelligent choices and convey that in their images similar to what this woman has done with collectibles? Where is the talent? Where is the source of the originality? The photographer taking the picture or the woman who created the compositions for the photographer to take notice while others didn't?

It is novelty for you. Here in Lisbon, Portugal, there are dozens of antique/antiquarian shops that sell this kind of stuff. So it is not novelty for me. As a parallel, I could go to an art gallery selling photos of Yosemite, or other USA natural parks (places I will never be able to go, probably), and select a few to buy. Or some books with photos from those places, even some kitschy photos of sunsets:)

[Tim Lookingbill]

It is novelty for you. Here in Lisbon, Portugal, there are dozens of antique/antiquarian shops that sell this kind of stuff. So it is not novelty for me. As a parallel, I could go to an art gallery selling photos of Yosemite, or other USA natural parks (places I will never be able to go, probably), and select a few to buy. Or some books with photos from those places, even some kitschy photos of sunsets:)

So you zero'ed in on my point about antique collecting/interior design that I meant as an analogy on discerning originality through examination of intelligent choices made behind the camera seen in the images as just mere novelty? Clearly something got lost in translation in your interpretation of what I wrote. I'm in the US. Or you're just being dismissive and splitting hairs as the only meaningful way to move this discussion forward. I can't tell which from your response.

So to cut to the chase show me a photograph either yours or someone else's that you think exhibits intelligent choices were made behind the camera and clearly point out those choices that support your POV.

[Tim Lookingbill]

Quote Tim Reply#42.


I take it you didn't catch the point about people looking at all the trillion other sunsets online.

unquote

I don't think anyone has the time - certainly not me - to look at that many sunsets?

There's over 7 billion people on this planet spread across the entire globe. That makes a lot of sunsets they've seen and the potential for an enormous amount to be quite unique. Just because someone doesn't see it online doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There's too many that look the same online that gives a false impression that that's all there is.

How do you make a sunset look original since most of them look pretty much all alike. A lot of that is luck but a viewer looking at the result isn't going to know that or read some kind of intelligence or meaningfulness behind it.

The only thing left that a photographer can do is show some level of discernment in the way they shoot that scene that just doesn't show they relied only on luck. Not sure if that can be communicated clearly in one photograph though.

My "Not So Kitschy" sunset I posted previously was all luck and judicious post processing because I shot the series in jpeg (DOH!) and that's because I just got my DSLR and didn't have software at the time, nor the post processing experience to shoot Raw.

But I'm glad I was there early in the morning outside my apartment to get those shots. I know what I have no one's seen before because I checked it online from a weather centrist site that collects images of sunsets and cloud formations from around the world. They have a scientific name for the cloud formation I captured.

[sierraman]

My "kitsch" photograph. 

[torger]

It's almost impossible to create a really new image, especially in landscape. There's just so many photographs already made. However what you can make new and unique is a "project"/"work", that is a set of images which has some sort of context. Each image by itself may not be that "new", but the work as a whole can be new and fresh.

But in any case in order to make good quality work I think we need to shot what we like. If you happen to like sunsets, shoot sunsets and do it as well as you can.

Attached a kitsch image of mine.

[landscapephoto]

It's almost impossible to create a really new image, especially in landscape.

And still: every ten years or so, there is a new artist who comes out with a new idea. Even in landscape.

[torger]

And still: every ten years or so, there is a new artist who comes out with a new idea. Even in landscape.

Yes. I envy Edward Burtynsky: http://www.edwardburtynsky.com/ which has pulled off the incredible to make important art out of landscape photography. But well, that environmental idea is taken now :-)

[Zorki5]

And still: every ten years or so, there is a new artist who comes out with a new idea.

Speaking of new ideas... What do you think of this one (yes, a mess, look carefully):

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

...look carefully...

I did... found vodka in no time

[Jimbo57]

Wasn't Andy Warhol doing something similar a hundred years ago? (With bourbon rather than vodka.)


Actually, my principal criterion for an interesting photo is that I need to look at it for more than 60 seconds. This one qualifies.

[RSL]

IMO about the worst thing you can do when taking photos, unless you're a pro working to someone else's brief, is concern yourself with how a particular photo will be perceived or categorized while you're in the midst of doing your thing. Just do it. Shoot all the presumed clichés. Edit later. Maybe some of those "clichés" will turn out to have something else going on.

I like sunset (and sunrise) photos and could care less whether or not some folks view them as kitsch. But when photographing them I do tend to get bored with repetition. As of late I've been mostly leaving the sun itself out of such pics.

-Dave-

As Slobodan said, "Amen." And as we used to say in the Air Force: "Shoot 'em down and sort 'em out on the ground."

To put it in a more serious way: Don't worry about details when you're shooting, but when it comes time to cull, get serious and be critical. It helps a lot if you let a noticeable period of time pass between shooting and culling.

[Zorki5]

Wasn't Andy Warhol doing something similar a hundred years ago? (With bourbon rather than vodka.)

Can you please point me to it? I'm not aware of anything similar by Warhol... or anyone else, for that matter (not saying it doesn't exist; only that I haven't see it).

[pcgpcg]

...look carefully...

What fun!  Nicely done.
How long did it take to set this up and what did you do to get the sharp edge on the stack of fig newton thingies?
Also, this is just begging to be one of a series. Do you have more?

[elliot_n]

How long did it take to set this up and what did you do to get the sharp edge on the stack of fig newton thingies?

It's a biscuit tin...