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Author Topic: Can we avoid kitsch photography?  (Read 17330 times)

dreed

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Can we avoid kitsch photography?
« on: January 05, 2016, 09:03:22 am »

The website dedicated to find areas where the sunset will be good got me to thinking: sunset photography is already kitsch to a certain extent and now this website is saying "go here for beautiful sunsets."

Judging by the interest from other readers here, it would seem that there is indeed genuine interest in predicting beautiful sunsets which makes me wonder if the pursuit of those therefore turns sunset photography into something very kitsch and that if that's generalized then if it isn't kitsch then it isn't interesting.

Well maybe I've run away a bit there but the point here is that by focusing on the beauty of the sunset rather than the composition or subjects, pursuit of kitsch is at hand.
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amolitor

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Re: Can we avoid kitsch photography?
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2016, 09:12:51 am »

This is the Luminous Landscape, where the name of the game is to produce kitsch ;)

While that statement is obviously hyperbole, what is true is that most traditional landscape being shot today runs up against the same problem. It's typically extremely pretty, and it's typically fairly light on "meaning", whatever that is. So, inevitably, it's going to be seen as kitsch by at least some viewers.

For my money, the way you avoid kitsch is to have a point of view, an opinion, an idea. What is it about this sunset, in this place?
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dreed

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Re: Can we avoid kitsch photography?
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2016, 10:29:17 am »

It's typically extremely pretty, and it's typically fairly light on "meaning", whatever that is.

I like that. I wonder if that's where street photography takes over?
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HSakols

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Re: Can we avoid kitsch photography?
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2016, 10:42:46 am »

No I don't want to photography just sunsets and sunrise.  I think this really took off after we all saw photographs from Galen Rowell who portrayed the Range of Light as almost a fantasy.  Never the less, good sunset shots have some thought to composition.  Usually the light is taken care of.  In the mountains it is hard not to shoot a sunset, but I must say that I love overcast days where I can wander and photograph wish a huge softbox overhead.
My sunset is number 2
My Sunset
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PeterAit

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Re: Can we avoid kitsch photography?
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2016, 11:01:37 am »

The website dedicated to find areas where the sunset will be good got me to thinking: sunset photography is already kitsch to a certain extent and now this website is saying "go here for beautiful sunsets."


One person's kitsch is another person's income. Fact is that it's almost impossible to do landscape photography that isn't kitsch or schlock or calendar fodder. A few - very few - photographers have the vision and skill to transcend this. I wish I were one of them.
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Otto Phocus

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Re: Can we avoid kitsch photography?
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2016, 11:58:45 am »

Like most things, it depends on what the definition of Kitsch Photography is.

And, the subject line seems to indicate that kitsch photography is something that should be avoided.... why?
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amolitor

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Re: Can we avoid kitsch photography?
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2016, 12:20:18 pm »

Most of us who take photographs "seriously" are, when you clear away the clutter, mostly just ringing the changes on a pretty small set of tropes we've been exposed to a lot.

The major tradition in landscape art is "the sublime" which is a completely legitimate opinion, idea, of the landscape. Landscapes very often evoke the "I am in the presence of God's Handiwork" sort of sensation. This in turn has produced a handful of tropes (see: Ruskin, Turner, Robinson, Adams, Rowell, etc. The line is pretty straight for the last 200 years). So there's a strong tendency to simply rework those tropes over and over. This makes tons of guys super happy, so, terrific!

The results tend to be weak repetitions of the single idea: "the sublime". The repetition is weak because the artist is working the tropes, not the ideas.

Again, so what? It makes lots of guys super happy, it even sells some art. That's all to the good.

But it *does* tend toward kitsch. The sublime is beautiful, it's pretty. Because it's reworked tropes, the idea of the sublime is only weakly present.

Do you want to shoot a sunset that's not kitsch? Start with an idea. It's not sublime at all. It's a terrifying supernova. It's the 3rd and last sun to set on Barsoom. It's the last sunset on the last day on earth. It's sunset in a dinosaur infested hellscape from which no mammal escapes alive.

Or whatever. Just step away from the sublime in your head, then start thinking about how to shoot that instead of the same reworked "sublime" thing.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Can we avoid kitsch photography?
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2016, 12:46:01 pm »

... It's the last sunset on the last day on earth. It's sunset in a dinosaur infested hellscape from which no mammal escapes alive...

I'd love to see that. On black velvet, please.

MattBurt

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Re: Can we avoid kitsch photography?
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2016, 12:47:34 pm »

I guess it all depends on why you shoot. I imagine some will think the majority of my photos are kitsch. Maybe they are, but I'm a visual person who likes to look at pretty scenes. By pretty scenes I mean spectacular natural beauty presented in the best conditions with the best technique possible. I want to show others what I see and why that scene is beautiful or important to me. I'd like to help someone who just sees some mountains actually see more about them than just big hunks of rock and dirt. I want to convince people who may not come and appreciate them in person that they are valuable as wild undeveloped places and not just potential sources of energy, raw materials, or a playground for the wealthy. I want people to realize there is value in dark skies and skylines unaltered by humans.
These images could end up in brochures, web sites, calendars, postcards, and maybe on some walls too. If I avoided that I'm not sure who my clients would be or who would want to see my work. I've dabbled in subjects that are a bit more edgy but the gallery that shows my work wasn't interested. It's just not what the market here wants, and honestly I'd rather look at pretty pictures myself too. Maybe I'm just shallow. :)
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amolitor

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Re: Can we avoid kitsch photography?
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2016, 12:52:35 pm »

I'd love to see that. On black velvet, please.

Let us be honest with ourselves. Who among us does NOT want to see it on black velvet?
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Isaac

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Re: Can we avoid kitsch photography?
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2016, 01:53:17 pm »

Like most things, it depends on what the definition of Kitsch Photography is.

Another way we can look down on them --

"kitsch: showy ​art or ​cheap, ​decorative ​objects that are ​attractive to ​people who are ​thought to ​lack any ​appreciation of ​style or ​beauty"
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Otto Phocus

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Re: Can we avoid kitsch photography?
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2016, 02:20:10 pm »

Another way we can look down on them --

"kitsch: showy ​art or ​cheap, ​decorative ​objects that are ​attractive to ​people who are ​thought to ​lack any ​appreciation of ​style or ​beauty"

So my niche is your kitsch?   ;D
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Tim Lookingbill

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Re: Can we avoid kitsch photography?
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2016, 02:32:47 pm »

If what's considered a kitsch sunset is a golden amber/red ball close to a flat horizon with some sparse clouds in the sky dispersing and diffusing yellow light then there's not much anyone can do to make that look original.

However, if someone looks for weather patterns like cold fronts that form oddly shaped clouds against haze-less backdrop of color back lit by and slightly covering a golden ball of intense light, then there is potential for creating something in post the likes of which have not been seen by man especially shooting Raw. You have a color palette to work with that would make a designer drool over.

A sunset offers up a huge palette of full spectrum color the naked eye does not see upon tripping the shutter. If all any photographer wishes to do is accurate portrayals of sunsets then most likely they're going to get uninspiring, kitsch results. You can only do so much with composition.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Can we avoid kitsch photography?
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2016, 02:44:53 pm »

If what's considered a kitsch sunset is a golden amber/red ball close to a flat horizon with some sparse clouds in the sky dispersing and diffusing yellow light then there's not much anyone can do to make that look original.

However, if someone looks for weather patterns like cold fronts that form oddly shaped clouds against haze-less backdrop of color back lit by and slightly covering a golden ball of intense light, then there is potential for creating something in post the likes of which have not been seen by man especially shooting Raw. You have a color palette to work with that would make a designer drool over.

A sunset offers up a huge palette of full spectrum color the naked eye does not see upon tripping the shutter. If all any photographer wishes to do is accurate portrayals of sunsets then most likely they're going to get uninspiring, kitsch results. You can only do so much with composition.

That makes sense.

What I think we are after when shooting sunrise/sunsets is something that is different, unusual, rarely seen. So, as you said, "a golden amber/red ball close to a flat horizon" is hardly unusual or rare. But a combination of something else with a sunrise/sunset might be. If it is a building, it presents it in a rarely seen light, if for no other reason than that most people are still in bed (for sunrise at least). For instance, this State Capitol in Santa Fe:



Which looked rather different just a few minutes earlier:

Isaac

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Re: Can we avoid kitsch photography?
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2016, 02:53:22 pm »

So my niche is your kitsch?

What a big niche you have!

"kitsch: … mass-produced, 'throw away' paraphernalia of industrial consumer culture." page 551 The Bulfinch Guide to Art History
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Isaac

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Re: Can we avoid kitsch photography?
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2016, 02:57:02 pm »

… something that is different, unusual, rarely seen.

Something that may lead to the appreciation of kitsch "as an ironic, aesthetic stance opposing the accepted notions of 'good taste'."
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Can we avoid kitsch photography?
« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2016, 03:03:23 pm »

..."kitsch: … mass-produced...

That's why I limit my editions  ;)

Isaac

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Re: Can we avoid kitsch photography?
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2016, 03:05:32 pm »

So does Peter Lik.
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Telecaster

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Re: Can we avoid kitsch photography?
« Reply #18 on: January 05, 2016, 03:41:13 pm »

IMO about the worst thing you can do when taking photos, unless you're a pro working to someone else's brief, is concern yourself with how a particular photo will be perceived or categorized while you're in the midst of doing your thing. Just do it. Shoot all the presumed clichés. Edit later. Maybe some of those "clichés" will turn out to have something else going on.

I like sunset (and sunrise) photos and could care less whether or not some folks view them as kitsch. But when photographing them I do tend to get bored with repetition. As of late I've been mostly leaving the sun itself out of such pics.

-Dave-
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AreBee

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Re: Can we avoid kitsch photography?
« Reply #19 on: January 05, 2016, 04:04:29 pm »

Tim,

Quote
You can only do so much with composition.

How much is only so much?
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