Epson Pro 9900 at the hard work

[Singularity]

Hi guys,
Since I dont have any idea about printers and solvent or inkjet printers I came this forum for some help I always read the posts and questions and all your stuff, and I though that here is the best place to put my doubts

The problem is: My girfriend has started a company about a year related to marketing and banners, birthday banners for the streets, announcements, big banners for fans at the music concerts, soccer games, and that kind of stuff, all informal things.... is pretty impresive, but is all hand made, she paint those banners, with paint and brushes, and now, she was overflowed, she dont have enough time for paint all the work, this week a representant of samsung call us asking for printed banners and we cant acept the deal cause is a professional banner and we need a printer.
Ok, we were thinking about that, we went to epson and they want to sell us a 60'' solvent printer for about  US$35.000, we are working so good, but we cannot afford something like that!!!!!, so we researched about other printers and we found an Epson Pro 9900, the owner of the printer said that it can print with aqueous waterproof ink on some kind of waterproof media, like thin Fabric Banner materials, or a thin glass.... we need to know that the printer can manage about 3 or 4 hours, of printing every week way, we dont want some indestructible banners, since those products are short term outdoor banners, like music festivals, or soccer games, actually we dont want high resolution neither, we need to know also if the Epson is a good choice, against HP or Canon... We dont want a sensitive printer with failures every month. We are planning on print about three or maximum four banners with about  44''/36''width x 190''/110'' height every day, just with some letters, numbers, some color. low/medium quality, something like this:



Do you think we can make it with that printer? I need some ideas, I also dont have too much money for an eco solvent printer.
Thanks for your time and happy new year!!!

Gabe
 

[Paul2660]

As far as I am aware, the 9900 ink set is not waterproof, period.  It's aqueous, so it will not handle water on printed media.  So for outdoor work, you will need a solvent type printer or a latex style printer.    I also do not know of any media that the 9900 can print on that would be "waterproof". 

This is why canvas prints (glossy) from a 9900 need to still be coated as it's very easy to have the ink rub off if any water gets on the print. 

The solvent printers output can handle the weather, and thus would be a better option for outdoor banners. 

Paul C

[Wayne Fox]

we’ve printed some large banners on our 11880 on Epson vinyl that have done pretty well, a couple of weeks outside with no real ill effect.

[aaronchan]

If your girlfriend is looking for a long term use for this machine, I would suggest a HP Latex printer.
More "correct" to your business

http://www.lexjet.com/i-24198-HP-Latex-110-54in-Printer-M0E30A.aspx

This model is not a heavy duty model, mostly for internal use or very low production house.
Within 10,000 USD, this should fit into your pocket

But if you want something even bigger,
http://www.lexjet.com/i-22142-HP-Latex-330-64in-Printer-E2X76A.aspx
This would be even a better choice


aaron

[Ken Doo]

A solvent printer is definitely the better choice as you have described your needs for banner and signage.

Now that being said---yes, the Epson 9900 can be recruited into making signs and banners---and they can be quite hardy in the outdoors too.    Yeah----I do occasional canvas banners and they hold up really well outdoors. The biggest challenge is the wind---and canvas does pretty well.  But I'm also spray coating for protection, though I'm confident that for short term use, uncoated signage, canvas and banner materials will hold up okay too.  By long term, I mean I have canvas banners that have been on display over a year outdoors.  If I were making signs and banners all the time, a solvent printer is the better bet hands-down---it's less work!

https://kendoophotography.wordpress.com/2010/06/26/wait-a-minute-real-canvas-for-banners/

ken

[Paul2660]

Simple story, sad outcome. 

36 x 96" print, on glossy canvas.  I choose not to coat, due to huge size and my workshop, plus coating canvas at this size can be tricky in itself. 

Print was perfect, stretch perfect.  Day of delivery, while taking out the print, one (1) drop of water hit on the top of the print and then rolled over the face, net ruining the entire print.  Where the water ran, it pulled the ink up.  For me a huge loss and total rework. 

So to me outdoor on canvas, without coating as Ken mentioned would be a no go.  I have never used vinyl on my 9900 as Wayne mentions, and it may handle the outdoor environment better. 

The only issue I see with 9900 printing and the outdoors, is water or wet conditions.  If you know the banner will be in dry climate and only up for a day or two, you more than likely will be fine.   UV sunlight should not be an issue or wind as long as the print is hung correctly.

Paul C

[Nora_nor]

I have had signs on uncoated canvas standing outside all summer, including rain, but it is the HPz2100 and a special canvas. I am sure the secret is in the coating of the canvas. We buy it from our supplier

[Randy Carone]

Paul, Epson inks are waterproof. Of course, they must be printed on waterproof media to be waterproof. IJ Technologies (and other suppliers) make quite a range of waterproof vinyls and banner media that are waterproof without coating. Coated media will last much longer. We have seen banners last for well over a year with no ill effects. Try this. Print a photo on Epson Premium Luster (or whatever they are calling it this year). Hold it under a running water faucet. Wipe with paper towel. You will see no ill effects from water. The media is the weak link if you experienced Epson ink running with exposure to water.

[Garnick]

As far as I am aware, the 9900 ink set is not waterproof, period.  It's aqueous, so it will not handle water on printed media.  So for outdoor work, you will need a solvent type printer or a latex style printer.    I also do not know of any media that the 9900 can print on that would be "waterproof". 

This is why canvas prints (glossy) from a 9900 need to still be coated as it's very easy to have the ink rub off if any water gets on the print. 

The solvent printers output can handle the weather, and thus would be a better option for outdoor banners. 

Paul C

Hi Paul,

I agree with the other posts that the Epson inks are indeed waterproof.  I haven't yet printed anything that would be displayed out of doors, but a while ago I had a request to print a small pano of a head that would be placed in a jar filled with water.  At first glance I was not certain that the Epson inks would fit the bill, but I soon discovered that my first impression was mistaken.  I printed an 8x10 of my standard "test" image and immersed it in a tray filled with water.  Weighted the corners to keep it submersed for a few days.  When I finally rescued it from its watery grave I too found that the substrate was the weak link in the combination.   I wiped the water from the surface and the back of the print and let it dry completely before comparing it with an "unwatered" print of the same image.  There was indeed no visually discernible difference between the two prints, other than the fact that the watered print was somewhat curled at the edges, which was quite understandable.  The inks were not affected in any way, so the "head-shot" was printed and submersed in the water filled jar as ordered, quite an interesting effect.

One question I do have for those who are printing on canvas to be displayed out of doors -- are you coating both sides of the canvas?  Without having any experience in this usage of canvas, it would seem to me that if moisture can enter the canvas from the back, would that not play havoc with the inks and thereby possibly cause them to eventually separate from the canvas?  Just a thought.

Gary   




 

[Ken Doo]

...

One question I do have for those who are printing on canvas to be displayed out of doors -- are you coating both sides of the canvas?  Without having any experience in this usage of canvas, it would seem to me that if moisture can enter the canvas from the back, would that not play havoc with the inks and thereby possibly cause them to eventually separate from the canvas?  Just a thought.

Gary   

I hvlp spray the front (image side) of the canvas only---just as I would if stretching for normal display. While true moisture---actually just plain wet from rain---does happen when hanging signage outdoors, I don't see it as a problem since it really is not meant to be a long-term installation---long as in archival.  I guess if it were an issue you could do a quick spray on the back, or maybe simply use a light coat of print shield for additional protection, but I never saw the need.  FWIW, I had an 36" x 96" pano, gallery wrapped stretched canvas that I displayed outdoors for several years. It was under a patio but still outdoors and subject to some blowing rains. Biggest issue was the wind which blew it down a few times, but I just simply hung it back up.  It held up amazingly well and really raised eyebrows when clients walked up....

When I hang canvas banners---both sides of the canvas are exposed to the elements. The biggest issue has always been wind damage, not the longevity of the printing...

ken

[noisegeek]

Gabe,

The simplest answer to your question is that no, it won't work. There are a number of differences between a 9900 and printers meant for signage and display graphics.
To start with, as you guessed, the inks. Solvent, latex, and UV cured inks are all designed for durability over a set period of time (usually 3-7 years depending on lamination etc.) in some fairly extreme conditions. The inks in the 9900 are designed to last much longer, but under vastly more stable conditions.
The other big difference is the material capabilities of the printer. Sure, you could print canvas in the 9900, but canvas isn't really what you want to use for banners. For that sort of thing, we usually use a scrimmed vinyl that can be hemmed or welded.

I'd say your best options would be to look around for a used printer, or focus on selling your girlfriend's designs and find a printer in your area that you can work with to get them printed.

Lastly, you might want to do some looking around on Signs101. You might be able to find someone that you can work with through there.

-Jordan