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Author Topic: Color settings profile automatically created  (Read 4730 times)

palpman

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Color settings profile automatically created
« on: December 06, 2015, 12:02:01 pm »

I own a DP1M, DP2M and a DP3M.

I know the DP3M has quite accurate colours. The others don't.

If I take the exact same picture with a DP3M and say, a DP2M, is it then possible in Lightroom to automatically create a color setting profile (by comparing both pictures) that makes a DP2M match the colours of the DP3M?

My goal is to generate a profile that I can use on any picture taken with a DP2M to match those of the DP3M in terms of color rendition.

I hope I'm clear...

Thank you for your help!
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Rhossydd

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Re: Color settings profile automatically created
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2015, 12:14:03 pm »

Lightroom can't do this automatically.
You'll need a MacBeth colorchecker and DNG profile creating software eg Adobe Profile Editor or X-Rite Passport. Another alternative is the QP card reference and software.
You'll need to shoot the reference cards in identical lighting and then build profiles from the resultant image files, then save the profiles in the appropriate place for LR to find and use them.
All the above allow a degree of tweaking to help get profiles delivering what you want.

Best not to use the "accurate" word here in the context of colour matching unless you want to get very serious about colour ;-)

« Last Edit: December 06, 2015, 05:58:11 pm by Rhossydd »
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palpman

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Re: Color settings profile automatically created
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2015, 01:26:31 pm »

Thank you Rhossydd,

I'll check MacBeth. I'm definitely not a pro so my definition of "accurate" in terms of colour is quite ambitious indeed!

Cheers
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digitaldog

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Re: Color settings profile automatically created
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2015, 02:04:40 pm »

I'll check MacBeth. I'm definitely not a pro so my definition of "accurate" in terms of colour is quite ambitious indeed!
Custom DNG camera profiles will do nothing in terms of accurate color but can do quite a lot in terms of pleasing color.

In this 30 minute video, we’ll look into the creation and use of DNG camera profiles in three raw converters. The video covers:
What are DNG camera profiles, how do they differ from ICC camera profiles.
Misconceptions about DNG camera profiles.
Just when, and why do you need to build custom DNG camera profiles?
How to build custom DNG camera profiles using the X-rite Passport software.
The role of various illuminants on camera sensors and DNG camera profiles.
Dual Illuminant DNG camera profiles.
Examples of usage of DNG camera profiles in Lightroom, ACR, and Iridient Developer.

Low Rez (YouTube):
http://youtu.be/_fikTm8XIt4

High Rez (download):
http://www.digitaldog.net/files/DNG%20Camera%20profile%20video.mov
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Rhossydd

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Re: Color settings profile automatically created
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2015, 04:48:34 pm »

Custom DNG camera profiles will do nothing in terms of accurate color but can do quite a lot in terms of pleasing color.
To be fair to the OP, he wasn't actually asking about "accurate" colour, but just asking if there was an easy way to match two cameras output. Not an unreasonable request really.

Any other suggestions to help do this other than using custom DNG profiles ?
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digitaldog

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Re: Color settings profile automatically created
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2015, 04:51:37 pm »

To be fair to the OP, he wasn't actually asking about "accurate" colour, but just asking if there was an easy way to match two cameras output. Not an unreasonable request really.
Not at all, despite his text: I know the DP3M has quite accurate colours.
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Rhossydd

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Re: Color settings profile automatically created
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2015, 05:15:27 pm »

Not at all, despite his text: I know the DP3M has quite accurate colours.
One day you'll understand that tedious pedantry isn't always terribly helpful.
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digitaldog

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Re: Color settings profile automatically created
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2015, 05:47:51 pm »


One day you'll understand that tedious pedantry isn't always terribly helpful.
I could suggest the same ??? :
Best not to use the "accurate" word here in the context of colour matching unless you want to get very serious about colour ;-)
Hopefully the OP will find the video helpful.
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AlterEgo

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Re: Color settings profile automatically created
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2015, 09:36:22 pm »

I own a DP1M, DP2M and a DP3M.

I know the DP3M has quite accurate colours. The others don't.

If I take the exact same picture with a DP3M and say, a DP2M, is it then possible in Lightroom to automatically create a color setting profile (by comparing both pictures) that makes a DP2M match the colours of the DP3M?

My goal is to generate a profile that I can use on any picture taken with a DP2M to match those of the DP3M in terms of color rendition.

I hope I'm clear...

Thank you for your help!

I am not sure that Adobe raw converters support raw from DP Merrils (DP*M),... do they ???
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AlterEgo

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Re: Color settings profile automatically created
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2015, 09:40:27 pm »

If I take the exact same picture with a DP3M and say, a DP2M, is it then possible in Lightroom to automatically create a color setting profile (by comparing both pictures) that makes a DP2M match the colours of the DP3M?

Iliah Borg suggested the following (naturally no LR here) = http://sail2ithaki.livejournal.com/142328.html , you need to alter the procedure with 2 shots/conversion from different cameras instead of adjusting the the one from the same...
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eliedinur

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Re: Color settings profile automatically created
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2015, 10:56:29 am »

I am not sure that Adobe raw converters support raw from DP Merrils (DP*M),... do they ???
Precisely. And I am afraid this means that the OP is being mislead. Whether DNG profiles provide more accuracy or more pleasure is entirely irrelevant in his case, because if he is bringing into LR tiffs rendered in the Sigma converter, Sigma's profile is already embedded. He could manually create a preset in which he matches the colors of CC 24 target shots from the two cameras (or more likely, attempts to get a reasonably close match), but it would not be an automatic process. The preset could be automatically applied to other DP2M tiffs, but the extent to which it would create DP3M colors could not be guaranteed.
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digitaldog

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Re: Color settings profile automatically created
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2015, 11:10:20 am »

He could manually create a preset in which he matches the colors of CC 24 target shots from the two cameras (or more likely, attempts to get a reasonably close match), but it would not be an automatic process.
He could build and edit a DNG camera profile for the raw LR does support in an attempt to match the other data which we're told is more accurate no?
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AlterEgo

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Re: Color settings profile automatically created
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2015, 11:21:40 am »

He could build and edit a DNG camera profile for the raw LR does support in an attempt to match the other data which we're told is more accurate no?
he wants to match "colors" : make DP3M look like DP2M... we can assume he is using Sigma's own raw converter (he can't possibly use LR as both cameras are not supported for raw conversion by Adobe) and dealing with .TIFF output from it... suggestion is to do what Iliah Borg scripted (with mods) using PS & argyll as the proper tools to get that correction profile... or otherwise try to use Iridient raw converter - I believe it supports Sigma raws, supports both .dcp and .icc/.icm camera profiles and there you can try to build one to deal with color @ the "raw conversion" stage (I mean within raw converter)... tools to build profiles (for Iridient) outside of Adobe DNG PE or X-Rite oem software for passport (or QPCard stuff) are available from A. Torger = dcamprof... there you even do not need to convert unsupported (by Adobe) raws to DNG ( which otherwise is difficult - which software converts sigma raws to DNG for DP*M cameras ? )
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digitaldog

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Re: Color settings profile automatically created
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2015, 12:28:08 pm »

he wants to match "colors" : make DP3M look like DP2M... we can assume he is using Sigma's own raw converter (he can't possibly use LR as both cameras are not supported for raw conversion by Adobe) and dealing with .TIFF output from it...
Indeed, if LR doesn't support those cameras, then a DNG profile there is a waste. But can we assume he's using Sigma's converter? Further, here's at least one very fine raw converter that supports all his cameras and DNG camera profiles: http://www.iridientdigital.com/products/rawdeveloper_cameras.html
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AlterEgo

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Re: Color settings profile automatically created
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2015, 01:07:01 pm »

Indeed, if LR doesn't support those cameras, then a DNG profile there is a waste. But can we assume he's using Sigma's converter? Further, here's at least one very fine raw converter that supports all his cameras and DNG camera profiles: http://www.iridientdigital.com/products/rawdeveloper_cameras.html

I already mentioned Iridient above as the one that supports both types of camera profiles (dcp and icc/icm) - but we need to wait for the topic starter to clarify which raw converter he is using indeed or plan to use...
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eliedinur

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Re: Color settings profile automatically created
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2015, 01:13:15 pm »

Indeed, if LR doesn't support those cameras, then a DNG profile there is a waste. But can we assume he's using Sigma's converter? Further, here's at least one very fine raw converter that supports all his cameras and DNG camera profiles: http://www.iridientdigital.com/products/rawdeveloper_cameras.html
But he posted his question on LuLa's Lightroom forum, not the more general Digital Image Processing forum. What is more, he specifically asked about LR color profiles. So the answer to his question should be: "No, because DNG color profiles apply to Raw files only and LR does not support your Raw files. However, there are some alternate measures you can try; 1.) an LR preset (note: different from a profile) applied to rendered tiffs or 2.) not using LR, but rather a different Raw converter, like Iridient."

The OP has to clarify whether he really meant "profile" and whether he meant Raws or rendered images.
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digitaldog

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Re: Color settings profile automatically created
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2015, 01:29:53 pm »


The OP has to clarify whether he really meant "profile" and whether he meant Raws or rendered images.

but we need to wait for the topic starter to clarify which raw converter he is using indeed or plan to use...
Agreed (at this point with the data points provided).
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palpman

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Re: Color settings profile automatically created
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2015, 05:19:38 pm »

Hi all,

Well, thanks for the interest.

I want to match the colours of my DP2M pictures to match those of a DP3M because they a better to my eyes. For example reds are quite off in DP2M files, whereas DP3M images barely need any improvements to make me happy. Hope you guys see where this is going.

Sorry for the abuse of the word accurate.

I use Sigma's Photo Pro software to convert the pics and then use Lightroom to do more processing.

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eliedinur

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Re: Color settings profile automatically created
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2015, 02:39:39 am »

Ok, that's what I thought. The other guys saw the word "profile" and went charging down the wrong road. What you want is a 'develop preset'. Profiles are used as one of the first steps in the conversion of Raws to rendered image files, usually tiffs or jpgs, and when you processed your Raw photos in SPP it would have applied Sigma made profiles, probably different ones for each camera, which would account for the differences in color.

Presets can be used on either Raws or rendered images (although in your case it would be only rendered images), but more successfully on 16 bit tiffs than 8 bit jpgs. They are nothing more than sets of Develop slider positions. You can put shots from the two cameras in the same folder or collection and using the Ctrl+C function to compare them, use LR's editing sliders to get the "2" as close as possible to the "3". Once you are satisfied, save those settings as a User Preset.

In my experience, however, presets are rarely "one button auto fixes", but rather starting points for further tweaks. Differences in lighting, exposure, subject colors, etc. can all require further adjustments.
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AlterEgo

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Re: Color settings profile automatically created
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2015, 09:27:13 am »

Ok, that's what I thought. The other guys saw the word "profile" and went charging down the wrong road.
it seems you missed the point what is the concept of "correction" profile for rendered .tiff  - try to reread http://sail2ithaki.livejournal.com/142328.html
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