Anyone upgrade from 5D3 to 5DsR?

[gwhitf]

Curious if anyone here upgraded, and whether they're glad they did, or whether they realized they could have just added a tad more Unsharp Mask? Was it worth it? I'm very please with the files from 5DMark III.

Thank you.

[pfigen]

If you like your 5D3 files, you'll love the 5DS R files. Unless you need to shoot at ultra high ISO's or shoot a lot of video. I kept both 5D3's and added two 5DSR bodies as well. The new camera has the best, most robust and sharpest files from any Canon body to date, well, any one I've used. The shadows are much cleaner on the S than the 3 and just don't band at all, while the dynamic range has only be marginally increased - maybe half a stop or so. Lr still has a major contrast problem with its default settings for the new camera. C1 makes the best files by far and there's something weird about Iridient. Not up to their usual standard. And DPP, well, not really worth even looking at compared to C1.

[Robert DeCandido PhD]

see: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1400719

I upgraded - I shoot birds in flight with a 600mm F4 version II at 800-1600iso

Compared to the 5D3, the colors seem to me more accurate in areas where the 5D3 fell apart - underexposed parts of the subject. I can take a 5Ds file and underexpose and push it 1-2 stops and the image looks great.

I don't miss the 6FPS of the 5D3...5fps is fine with the 5Ds. The biggest problem is the large file size - writing to the card takes longer so if I need to check if I have the exposure correct on the fly, I have to wait a while (3-4 seconds) before the camera processes a file (or a burst of images). Battery life is not as good as with the 5D3 (as expected) so make sure to get third party batteries, etc.

Image quality is improved...detail is wonderful on a large monitor. I am glad I made the purchase - would not go back to shooting BIF with the 5D3...files are indeed better (mostly). Now if they could only get the detail in the shadows/blacks as with a Sony sensor, etc. See third photo below as example of this - the black head of the young Bearded Vulture (Lammergeier) - left side of head in the shade lacks detail in the black area...could be my attempts at processing this file on a laptop on the road...

or as I wrote over at FM: "I have been shooting the 5Ds every day since late October at my research site in the mountains of Nepal. I replaced the 5D3 with the 5Ds...since reviews showed that at least to 1600 ISO, the sensors in the both cameras were more or less equal...with the 5Ds having more random noise and better at lower ISOs (100-400).

"I shoot birds in flight at 800-1600...in processing the RAW files it seems to me (after having used the 5D3 for three years in the same situations) that the RAW 5Ds files can have the shadows bumped (pushed) better than the 5D3...also, I could never get whites to balanced correctly on the underside of a bird passing overhead without a greenish tint in the shadows...or if I made a color correction, with grey areas (secondary feathers especially) becoming reddish (magenta). So overall I would say that for me the sensor in the 5Ds is a noticeable upgrade...not quite Sony sensor quality (I shot the RX-1 for a year), but it is better. And as I always say, I never shoot a Canon camera over 1600 ISO - though I have not yet used a 1Dx (too big, heavy and expensive for the quality)...but will shoot the RX-1 at 3200.

"My biggest complaint is that it takes a long time for the camera to process the files while shooting - so if I need to make exposure adjustments on the fly - I have to wait and possibly lose some shots waiting for the camera...

"Battery life is not as good - I get about one full day (up to 600 images) on a full battery charge.

"AF is IMO more accurate on my copy of the 5Ds than on my 5D3. I don't mind the 5fps of the 5Ds compared to the 6fps of the 5D3.
I think the cost is still several hundred dollars too high - especially given the exchange rate between the Yen and US Dollar. That being said I got mine for $2750 in late August from a dealer in NJ - all has worked out fine.

"Anyway, it was a worthwhile upgrade for me...I think color fidelity is better with the 5Ds...and the ability to crop like crazy (think distant small birds in flight) makes a big difference for me. I would sell the 5D3 again and purchase the 5Ds knowing what I know now...AND keep your RRS L-plate from the 5D3 because it fits the 5Ds 99.9% perfectly."

[johnnycash]

Hi, I upgraded from 5D3 first to 5DS, then to 5DSR. It's a nice step up and if you like high resolution, you will love the 5DSR. The body also feels a bit more solid in hand and the shutter sound is more pleasant.

[John Koerner]

I am thinking that the 5DSR might be the optimal DSLR choice for macro work ... esp. studio macro work.

[gwhitf]

If you like your 5D3 files, you'll love the 5DS R files. Unless you need to shoot at ultra high ISO's or shoot a lot of video. I kept both 5D3's and added two 5DSR bodies as well. The new camera has the best, most robust and sharpest files from any Canon body to date, well, any one I've used. The shadows are much cleaner on the S than the 3 and just don't band at all, while the dynamic range has only be marginally increased - maybe half a stop or so. Lr still has a major contrast problem with its default settings for the new camera. C1 makes the best files by far and there's something weird about Iridient. Not up to their usual standard. And DPP, well, not really worth even looking at compared to C1.

Thank you. I had heard that Lightroom did not even support it yet? Is that correct? Sounds like they do, but in your opinion, badly? I had forgotten the 5dsr was now 50MP when I made original post. I think I'll rent one from LensRentals.com and test it out. I think I'm going to bite. (For $3600, why would anyone buy MF any more, at this point, with this much sharpness and file size?)

Thank you everyone for all your responses. Very helpful.

I shoot only the Sigma Art lenses with my body now; the Art lenses seem like they'll make a great partner with the 5DsR.

[Craig Lamson]

Thank you. I had heard that Lightroom did not even support it yet? Is that correct? Sounds like they do, but in your opinion, badly? I had forgotten the 5dsr was now 50MP when I made original post. I think I'll rent one from LensRentals.com and test it out. I think I'm going to bite. (For $3600, why would anyone buy MF any more, at this point, with this much sharpness and file size?)

Thank you everyone for all your responses. Very helpful.

I shoot only the Sigma Art lenses with my body now; the Art lenses seem like they'll make a great partner with the 5DsR.

Please stop back in and give us your thoughts after your rental.  I'm straddling the same fence, and 12/31/15 is fast approaching.  And right now I'm thinking yes.

[johnnycash]

For $3600, why would anyone buy MF any more, at this point, with this much sharpness and file size?

I'm on the verge of selling my 5DSR and stepping into the MF. While the 5DSR is a wonderful machine in the 35mm DSLR realm, the sensor performance is limited in terms of DR to say at least.
It's either you'll use inferior lenses and then you can be satisfied with the 5DSR sensor output quality or get superior lenses (Zeiss Otus) and feel the sensor lacking. Maybe you are not looking further, that's fine. But this is a tough one for me now.
If I sell my whole Canon equipment I'll get around $20K USD. That's the MF territory. I have to say I'm tempted to step up.
I'll be making some hands-on real life test comparisons because I'm unable to make up my mind just by reading about each system, although this forum is great in forming opinions and getting to know knowledgeable people who help you.

[gwhitf]

I would suggest you rent and test before unloading the canon. There are a million hurdles, stupid designs, and needed workarounds in MF. Workarounds that should not be there for $30-40k. The canon just works. Day in and day out. Rent before you regret. Best money you could ever spend.

[johnnycash]

I would suggest you rent and test before unloading the canon. There are a million hurdles, stupid designs, and needed workarounds in MF. Workarounds that should not be there for $30-40k. The canon just works. Day in and day out. Rent before you regret. Best money you could ever spend.

Will do. I have a H5D-50c hands on demo scheduled and currently in touch also with the great guys from Digital Transitions. I'm prepared to be blown away by the performance and quality difference. I don't mind workarounds if I will like using the system and getting worthy results. I know it's not a 1:1 exchange, the MF game is a different world. I decided to look at it from the value standpoint, not just price.

[gwhitf]

Will do. I have a H5D-50c hands on demo scheduled and currently in touch also with the great guys from Digital Transitions. I'm prepared to be blown away by the performance and quality difference. I don't mind workarounds if I will like using the system and getting worthy results. I know it's not a 1:1 exchange, the MF game is a different world. I decided to look at it from the value standpoint, not just price.

Yeah, well, wait til you encounter one-point-center autofocus sensor. And shutter lag. And weight. And hunting autofocus. And general klunkiness. And slow lenses. Maybe Phase did better with this new body, but you can't seem to get your hands on one.

Rent before you let go of that effortless Canon with 50MP sensor.

[Doug Peterson]

Yeah, well, wait til you encounter one-point-center autofocus sensor. And shutter lag. And weight. And hunting autofocus. And general klunkiness. And slow lenses. Maybe Phase did better with this new body, but you can't seem to get your hands on one.

I really hope you'll play with an XF. It is one AF point (settable to a very small spot in the center, for instance when trying to isolate the eye from the face, or a moderate-area center spot). But everything else you mention is night-and-day compared to previous medium format bodies.

It's not hard to "get your hands on one" at all. We have a fleet of them available for rental and demo; if you called us today we could have one on your doorstep for you to test tomorrow morning (or you could come to our offices in NY or LA). End-user deliveries were initially slow (strong demand, slow initial production rate) but are starting to pick up pace.

[NancyP]

Robert deCandido, thanks for showing your vulture photos. The lowly turkey vulture is one of my favorite birds in flight, also, harbinger of spring in my locale (a few do winter over). The critters that take the trash out (vultures, fungi, etc) are often unfairly maligned or ignored.

[Hans Kruse]

Curious if anyone here upgraded, and whether they're glad they did, or whether they realized they could have just added a tad more Unsharp Mask? Was it worth it? I'm very please with the files from 5DMark III.

Thank you.

I upgraded from 5D III to the 5Ds R and it is quite an upgrade. All you know from the 5D III works as well or better. The AF is considerably improved and from what I have seen very precise on all my lenses. I have used it on Canon 16-35 f/4L IS, 24-70 f/2.8L II, 70-200 f/2.8L IS II and 100-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS II. All lenses except the 24-70 f/2.8L II has been working very well and sharp fully open across the frame. The 24-70 is in for adjustment since it is decentered. I have had a loan lens which suffers from the same problem. I have heard from a number of owners of this lens that this is a common problem. I hope ti can be fixed to my satisfaction as it otherwise is a stunning lens. The new levelling tool in the top of the viewfinder (where you can see it in the early mornings!) is great. The view finder is large and bright even on f/5.6 lenses (and btw. much brighter than the D810 which is dim already on f/4 lenses). The 5Ds R is a bit slow in staring up and and also in image review compared with the 5D III. The live view is quite improved in sharpness and clarity of detail compared with the 5D III which never impressed me in that regard. You still have to press the DOF button to see the DOF (which you don't need to on the D810 which is better).

The color and detail of the 5Ds R is amazing. I'm wondering why you make the comment on unsharp mask as if you think the resolution is anywhere close which it is isn't, of course. The usable dynamic range which I have seen in my landscape shots is markedly improved and there is no banding. The DR is nowhere near the D810 but the cases where it falls short I use the HDR blend in Lightroom CC which works really great. So unless you think DR is the most important aspect of photography then get the 5Ds R and you will be stunned about the IQ. If DR is very important, get the D810 if you want a DSLR. The 5Ds R has EFCS as default in Liveview which is great and simplifies shooting landscapes with absolute sharpness. The D810 has EFCS also but is so limited in function that is annoying.

[Robert DeCandido PhD]

Robert deCandido, thanks for showing your vulture photos. The lowly turkey vulture is one of my favorite birds in flight, also, harbinger of spring in my locale (a few do winter over). The critters that take the trash out (vultures, fungi, etc) are often unfairly maligned or ignored.

Hi Nancy - yes vultures are wonderful - and look great too (or at least get people's attention with their looks).

No TVs in Asia but here is a selection of the 9 vulture species that can be found in Nepal...the most species of any Asian country.

All photos shot this year with the Canon 5Ds at anywhere between 800-1600iso. If in flight, shutter speed usually 1/4000-1/5000 sec...and the lens used (600mm F4 II) was shot wide open (F4) in all cases.

I agree with Bartender that Topaz Detail is a great sharpener (i use it for pre-sharpening)...

Photo 1. Cinererous (Black) Vulture - hatch-year bird; this is the largest (in terms of bulk) vulture in Asia (and Africa).

Photo 2. Egyptian Vulture - sub-adult (hatched approx, four years ago)...

Photo 3. Himalayan Vulture - adult (head) shot while in flight

Photo 4. Red-headed Vulture - adult (note yellow eyes = male) - and note the full crop. This vulture had been feeding at a carcass some time earlier that day, and ate a lot.

Asian vultures are some of the most endangered raptors in the world, due to the use of diclofenac (a veterinary drug used to relieve arthritis in free-range cows in Asia).

[Robert DeCandido PhD]

Four more Asian Vulture images from Nepal

1 Juvenile (hatched this year) White-rumped Vulture

2. Adult White-rumped Vulture

3. Himalayan Vultures and White-rumped Vultures near a carcass

4. Lammergeier (Bearded Vulture) in flight

[johnnycash]

Four more Asian Vulture images from Nepal

1 Juvenile (hatched this year) White-rumped Vulture

2. Adult White-rumped Vulture

3. Himalayan Vultures and White-rumped Vultures near a carcass

4. Lammergeier (Bearded Vulture) in flight

Impressive captures Robert! Thank you for sharing them with us.

[Craig Lamson]

I bought the 5ds.  I shoots lots of things with fabrics so I opted for the body with the AA filter.  So far I'm very impressed, even with my old lenses.  The weakest is the Sigma 12-24 which is my workhorse, and even that is not so bad, and the files are a marked improvement over my 1Ds3, 5d2 and 6d.  I'll rent the 11-24 and see how much difference it makes.

All in all I'm quite pleased.

[NancyP]

Thank you for the vulture photos, and I am sorry to hear about their problem with NSAID diclofenac. It is somewhat reminiscent of the 1950s-1960s US problem with bald eagles and DDT.

 For others who might want a 1 paragraph summary of diclofenac issue, here's a wikipedia entry:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diclofenac
"Ecological effects
Main article: Indian vulture crisis

Use of diclofenac in animals has been reported to have led to a sharp decline in the vulture population in the Indian subcontinent – a 95% decline by 2003[29] and a 99.9% decline by 2008. The mechanism is presumed to be renal failure,[30] however toxicity may be due to direct inhibition of uric acid secretion in vultures.[31] Vultures eat the carcasses of livestock that have been administered veterinary diclofenac, and are poisoned by the accumulated chemical,[32] as vultures do not have a particular enzyme to break down diclofenac. At a meeting of the National Wildlife Board in March 2005, the Government of India announced it intended to phase out the veterinary use of diclofenac.[33] Meloxicam is a safer candidate to replace use of diclofenac.[34] It is more expensive than diclofenac, but the price is coming down as more drug companies begin to manufacture it.[35]

Steppe eagles have same vulnerability to diclofenac as vultures and may also fall victim to it.[36] Diclofenac has been shown also to harm freshwater fish species such as rainbow trout.[37][38][39][40] In contrast, New World vultures, such as the turkey vulture, can tolerate at least 100 times the level of diclofenac that is lethal to Gyps species.[41]

"The loss of tens of millions of vultures over the last decade has had major ecological consequences across the Indian Subcontinent that pose a potential threat to human health. In many places, populations of feral dogs (Canis familiaris) have increased sharply from the disappearance of Gyps vultures as the main scavenger of wild and domestic ungulate carcasses. Associated with the rise in dog numbers is an increased risk of rabies"[34] and casualties of almost 50,000 people.[42] The Government of India cites this as one of those major consequences of a vulture species extinction.[33] A major shift in transfer of corpse pathogens from vultures to feral dogs and rats could lead to a disease pandemic causing millions of deaths in a crowded country like India; whereas vultures’ digestive systems safely destroy many species of such pathogens.

The loss of vultures has had a social impact on the Indian Zoroastrian Parsi community, who traditionally use vultures to dispose of human corpses in Towers of Silence, but are now compelled to seek alternative methods of disposal.[34]

The resulting multiplication of feral dogs in India and Pakistan has caused a multiplication of leopards feeding on those dogs and invading urban areas looking for dogs as prey, resulting in occasional attacks on human children.[43]

see also
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_vulture_crisis

[Digital Finger]

Curious if anyone here upgraded, and whether they're glad they did, or whether they realized they could have just added a tad more Unsharp Mask? Was it worth it? I'm very please with the files from 5DMark III.

Thank you.

I upgraded from the 5D2-does that count?