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Author Topic: Hanging clothes  (Read 2103 times)

drmike

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Hanging clothes
« on: December 02, 2015, 06:56:23 am »

I am struggling to explain why but I really like this image.



I would appreciate any thoughts though not a mauling even if it's well deserved :)
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stamper

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Re: Hanging clothes
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2015, 07:54:49 am »

I can definitely see the attraction but would consider cropping the right hand side by about 2 inches. Nice processing.

francois

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Re: Hanging clothes
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2015, 08:20:19 am »

Very nice with pleasant colors. I like it as it is but there's a lot of options to play with (like framing).
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Francois

drmike

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Re: Hanging clothes
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2015, 08:43:58 am »

Thank you for the kind comments.

What I found in respect of the framing was that if you cropped much from the right then you ran into trouble with that dark area bottom right and you an orphaned bit of trunking which you could clone.

Or you go further and start nibbling away at the niche which looks awkward at least to me, so I though dang that's the shot I made at the time and I do recall thinking about it, I think I'll stick with it this time.

Someone suggested a square crop but I'm not sure how that might work.
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RSL

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Re: Hanging clothes
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2015, 09:01:36 am »

Leave it alone. It's fine just the way it is. The right niche has to be there to balance the thing. It's good minimalism.
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drmike

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Re: Hanging clothes
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2015, 09:05:28 am »

Thanks Russ, I think I will. I have just printed a copy and it looks even nicer on paper.

I think it's a little bit sad that I am so pleased with this shot but this hobby is meant to be fun :)
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brandtb

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Re: Hanging clothes
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2015, 11:59:40 am »

I think the colors and tone are really great and some of the architectural elements as well. I think issues could be taken with the fact a/the "principal focal point" is the "door and clothes" and this is weighted to the left of frame...but then you have a lot of blank wall to the right and then another niche. So, there are elements of interest left and right....separated by blank wall...don't know if this can be successful...could be...but is a problem to me. I probably would have got a little more above the door...just to get the address #...this extra space above "might have" helped the composition...especially the blank wall...the ground elements are not that critical. /B
« Last Edit: December 02, 2015, 12:05:15 pm by brandtb »
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Eric Myrvaagnes

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Re: Hanging clothes
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2015, 12:04:59 pm »

Leave it alone. It's fine just the way it is. The right niche has to be there to balance the thing. It's good minimalism.
Russ is absolutely right, IMHO.

It really needs both niches, which emphasize the door and clothes being off-center, which gives some life to the composition. If the door were precisely centered between the two niches, it would be pretty boring.

Eric
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drmike

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Re: Hanging clothes
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2015, 12:21:02 pm »

Thanks guys I appreciate the time and thought.

I confess that when I took the shot I didn't notice the number above the door. I'm not sure I would have done anything different but truth is I didn't see it and allow for any extra space.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Hanging clothes
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2015, 12:26:07 pm »

Mike,

I hope what I am going to say won't be considered "mauling." Nevertheless, consider this a "trigger warning," so that you have the time to find a "safe zone." ;)

I don't have much problem with the photographic aspect of the image, or the photographer. We could nitpick this or that, but it is mostly fine. (speaking of nitpicking, I would clone out the two pieces of trash). Love the colors and architecture (India or Marocco?).

But the hanging clothes bother me to no end.

I do not mind typical prompts, including clothes, in a typical context. I do not even mind atypical stuff, when its out-of-place placement is there for humor or a story. I do not mind ambiguity in street shots (in Russ' sense). But this particular ambiguity is driving me crazy, as I can't for the life of me figure out what are those clothes doing there.

I've seen lovers' clothes strewn all over the floor. I get that. I've seen cheating lover's clothes left behind while escaping through the window. I get that too. I know some cultures leave their shoes outside the front door. I get all that.

But what I can't get is: who leaves their pants outside the door, hanging!?



RSL

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Re: Hanging clothes
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2015, 12:44:44 pm »

That's called "ambiguity," Slobodan. Very important in good street photography. Not quite so important in door photography.  :D
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Rob C

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Re: Hanging clothes
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2015, 12:57:59 pm »

Mike

But what I can't get is: who leaves their pants outside the door, hanging!?

The Invisible Man.

A trick to tease.

Rob C

drmike

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Re: Hanging clothes
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2015, 01:09:50 pm »

Slobodan if that's a mauling I'm OK :) I hope I don't this too seriously

This is just a difference in approach I think. I don't care why the clothes are there and as you realise they just make a nice shape against the strong rectangle of the doors which also have those powerful circles. All this set against the fairly well defined solid pink walls with the frilly niches. I don't care that they are clothes, I'm not taking a shot of what's there but what I see (which sounds really pretentious but I should worry I am pretentious!).

The trash. I did think about that but the two bits of trash plus the peak of the clothes make a nice triangle which works for me.

For me there's no humour, I rarely do humour, and no ambiguity and in this case no story. Just shape, light and texture. Maybe others will create a story though as you suggest it will be hard work.

In fact as I recall the jodhpurs (the pants) and the shirt were part of the uniform by the staff at this hotel so maybe he left them out for cleaning or maybe he took them off to do some dirty job in the apartment, who knows?

It was in Incredible India, Rajasthan where we had the best holiday we've had so far. Wonderful place and wonderful people. Each day was a new discovery. Didn't take many photographs of any worth as each time I tried it became a photograph of India, the exotic and morphed into a snap.

Mike
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Rob C

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Re: Hanging clothes
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2015, 04:46:23 pm »


It was in Incredible India, Rajasthan where we had the best holiday we've had so far. Wonderful place and wonderful people. Each day was a new discovery. Didn't take many photographs of any worth as each time I tried it became a photograph of India, the exotic and morphed into a snap.

Mike


This is really strange. I lived in India, enjoyed most of the 'India' experience though I hated the schools I had to go to, but that's more about American, Canadian, Australian and Kiwi missionaries who blighted my youthful possibilities than India. Thing is, though, I would now feel very uncomfortable shooting pictures there, because rightly or wrongly, I would feel I was exploiting the people to no useful end. Now, were I to be shooting professionally, I wouldn't feel that way at all, because there would be a higher purpose - a valid purpose, actually - for doing that photography. Without the pro 'justification' I would feel myself nothing better than a simple rubbernecker, open-mouthed at the differences in ways of living.

I'm not in any way implying such motives to anyone; I am simply outlining my own imagined reactions to going back there with a camera, and I can't  tell myself why I feel that way about it. I guess that in a sense it's why I dislike street pics of our own, western, down 'n' outs so much - some kind of reaction to their plight giving somebody else satisfaction enough to photograph and publish, without in any way having an outlet designed to help those unfortunates back up any social ladder.

I used to believe that my dislike was all about invasion of privacy; I'm no longer so sure that that was what it was all about (in my mind) at all. Perhaps there's just something basically unpleasant in recording misfortunes of economic or physical states of being... this seems to be the case because if somebody shoots a picture of something that looks good, then with or without permission, thus possibly invading privacy (see my earlier concern), it can often still feel justified in its own right. Bill Cunningham springs immediately to my mind as an example of the latter.

Funny how emotion means so much more in photography than it being only a simple matter of visual design.

Rob

drmike

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Re: Hanging clothes
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2015, 05:25:19 pm »

I think I know what you mean Rob. I look at many street shots, maybe not so much here but certainly elsewhere, and I think but why? All you did was shoot what was before you which might be a down and out, a pretty girl or some street tough - and that's all you have done. There's no artistic intent. Seems to me the memorable street shots are frequently great photographs that happen to include  people. This of course excludes most photojournalism which is documentary in nature which is perhaps why you'd be OK shooting as a Pro.

As a rubber neck tourist in India I was happy to record the hustle and bustle of the way life is lived - that's part of tourism. The original shot of the clothes is more typical of what I tried to do for me and for the most part failed. I did try some street shots but I hope in a joyful and respectful way like this one which fails because I lost his blinking feet.



I don't think that's exploitative or disrespectful and it nearly works as a photograph that happens to have people in it.

Other times I asked if I could take photos making it clear that I was interested in what was going on such as some guy doing black smithying in the street to the extent of setting up a makeshift forge. We chatted and joked about how the women were doing all the hard work and he was OK about photographs which I screwed up sadly.

It's an interesting dilemma that you have raised. I make the mistake of asking myself how I'd feel if someone took my photograph in a given situation.

Your comment '... to no useful end ..' surely applies to all amateur photography, none of it really has any useful end apart from giving me a buzz for example like finding that shot of the clothes which I had completely forgotten about. I've had a happy day in its company working on it.

But Incredible India, I'll go back I hope as I loved the place and the people. I saw poverty but it didn't seem to be misery but then our itinerary was probably designed to deliver just that although we could ask our driver to go anywhere and we could walk anywhere and did. Never once did I feel uneasy because of where we had wandered into.

Damn I have rambled again.

Mike
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Rob C

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Re: Hanging clothes
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2015, 05:55:53 am »

Mike,

I'm pleased that you read my post as I'd hoped you would; it also seems to me that you honestly share some of my own thoughts regarding the photographing of other people.

I think the tonalities in your shown image here are great - and no, I see no attempt at 'exploitation' at all there, as it's an image of a structure representing an ethos, more than of individuals, a structure that shows how humble things can also serve useful services: you don't need Harrods if you just want to run a shop!

"Your comment '... to no useful end ..' surely applies to all amateur photography, none of it really has any useful end apart from giving me a buzz for example like finding that shot of the clothes which I had completely forgotten about. I've had a happy day in its company working on it."

Your words above say it all; it's exactly what the late superphotographer Terrence Donovan said in his most often quoted remark, which I'll try to paraphrase: the problem for the amateur is finding a reason to take a photograph. As I've said before, it's where I find myself today, as a retired pro. There simply isn't a pressing need to touch a camera anymore. There is, however, an urgency in the feeling that I have to do something with time, and perhaps the only thing I know how to do well enough to satisfy myself is more of the same. That's a self-constructed noose.

I started a new gallery in my website a year or so ago, called Beautiful Strangers, which was a reaction to a chance encounter late one afternoon when I was out in the old part of Alcudia, looking for atmospherics; I shot some shop displays and stacked sun glasses - and was in the process of doing this stuff when these two girls walked into shot. I didn't resist for a second - I shot. I sometimes wonder about the morality of that, then console myself with the notion that they looked gorgeous, dressed to achieve that, and deserved some pubic gratitude for effort. Consequently, I set out to develop the gallery further, but pretty much nothing happened, which demonstrates yet again, why model agencies are indispensable. You just don't run across much beauty in normal life - you have to go where beauty goes. For example: the whores in Cannes and Porto Cervo were even more delightful to behold than the perfectly pretty, straight girls we took along as models. Go figure one's chances of finding chance beauty in a hick tourist resort. I struck lucky - once!

Regarding your feeling of total ease when wandering about anywhere: being male, alone, yes, I think I'd feel much the same in India but certainly not anywhere in Pakistan, Africa or most European cities. My entire time in the States was one of tension. We were working in Florida on one occasion, on the Atlantic side, and wanted to get some evening beach shots. We drove to the edge of the sea and parked, got out of the car, and never left it. What had been a sea of white faces during the day had become its polar opposite in the evening. The idea of walking out there, the only whites around, with pretty girls and camera stuff, seemed an idiot's choice. Now, whether that was fear bred of tv or press, I don't know. What I do know, is that prior to the shoot I'd arranged to use a specific brand/type of powerboat for some water shots (I think it was a Rampage) and the company had given me their address to go chat and finalise the thing. I asked the receptionist at the hotel how I could get to the boatyard, and he looked at me in surprise. and said you can't go there. I asked why, and he said because you're white! I thought he was overreacting, and so I tried to figure out how to use the grid system and get there - I love boats! To cut a long tale short, we got so far and got lost. We realised that we were, again, the only whites in sight. At that point, boats stopped meaning very much at all, and we went back the way we had come. Now, were we right or were we just scared to death over nothing? I shall never know, and my question is rhetorical.

So yeah, photography's not all smiles and cheer.

Rob

drmike

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Re: Hanging clothes
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2015, 02:35:59 pm »

I suspect how you feel about taking photographs is how a lot of people feel when realistically their working life is over and their work has almost been their life. It certainly seems that you loved being a Pro with highs and lows. I'm winding down on the work front and I keep being tempted to develop a web site but I have been a software developer for 30 years now and it's not going to be a solution for me really as I have more time.

You're in a tough place but maybe you just need to embrace the amateur status more, the total freedom to do anything you want to - although I have to say it sounds a lot like you tended to get a large bit of that freedom when you were working.

I know I take my shots for me first and foremost and if others like them - and I do like to share them - it's a big bonus, well usually. I've done the club competition thing and stuff that for a game of soldiers. I am envious of my Estonian friend who seems to have dropped in with a group of like minded photographers and they work as a team supporting one another, undertaking projects. I'd love to have something like that but I can't find it round here even if it exists.

I find beauty all around me but not in people as I am too shy but just in my surroundings - trousers on doors and everything :)

The wandering about thing. We usually walk as a couple although I'm happy enough to walk alone as well, less happy for my wife to do so. That said I am always aware of what's around us and I sometimes feel a lot less comfortable in the UK than I did anywhere in India. The bits of Africa I've been to always felt OK on the whole - Morocco, Egypt, Tunisia although I guess these are all out of bounds now.

I lived in Ghana for 3 years and never felt in any peril except during one coup d'etat when I decided I would see how the capital city was doing and got in the car. Two soldiers stopped me at the main roundabout into town and said not go any further. I sort of tried to persuade one it would be OK but he was firm and said to go back but by that time his colleague who was high as a kite had his foot on top of my front wheel and I couldn't drive away. The pleasant one was now getting agitated and started waving his gun about but as ever it all ended well. Same with a different coup when the University drivers refused to go to the airport to pick up some guests arriving as they said they would be shot (first rule of a coup take the airport and in those days the radio station). I cut the deal that if went I to the airport and came back alive then they would go too. I knew there was probably no risk at all for a white man but did it all the same. Those were fun days.

I wouldn't fancy either situation you found yourself in the US and would go away just as you did :)

Another day, another ramble.

Mike

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Rob C

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Re: Hanging clothes
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2015, 04:03:31 pm »

I enjoy your rambles: do some more. It's what this joint needs, methinks, in place of tech/brand battles...

I've had few experiences of Africa - stopped off during my childhood when on trips to and from India a couple of times, but the work was confined to Kenya. Part of the deal that the client struck was that we use the national Kenyan airline. That was a bad idea. We had two false departures (engine failure on the runway) and were eventually housed in a hotel overnight. I wanted to opt out there and then, but we hung on in and flew, third time lucky, the next day. From Nairobi we flew on a small 'plane to Kitchwa Tembo safari 'resort' (that's an exaggeration indeed!) and spent the worst night of my life in a tent with the company of spiders, a rather large one of which did a vanishing act into the pocket on the side of the tent next to my bed. We couldn't coax the mother out, and so I expect that repeated thumps against the canvas convinced it to stay, or better yet, squashed it. That aside, we had to fly from there to Buffalo Lodge, where the initial appreciation of having a hut in place of a tent was cut short by panic in Reception when we asked about some tiny kittens at the door of one of the huts. Apparently, there was a great fear of rabies at that moment, and the kittens were rapidly vanished. From there, shots made, a helluve long van drive to Mombasa, made more tense by repeated road blockages caused by stones placed right across the rough road intentionally. Once on a main road again, the driver stopped the van at a roadside stall and came back to the van with a knife which he then stuck down between his legs and sat on it. We watched all of this in silence, and when someone eventually asked why the shiv, he said because the folks in Mombasa were not his lot of folks.

Cool. The next thing was the ferry taking us across to Mombasa. Felt like we were a van full of exotic animals en route to the zoo. I suppose other species feel much the same way too, when we press our faces against the bars or windows and stare.

The last assault on our senses was departure from Mombasa. It was a very late flight, and the office selling 'departure permits'! was closed, and some of us in the queue wandered off to find another office where we eventually got the bits of paper. Then, at the actual checkout counter, the giant with a pistol put his foot on the weighing machine beside some of our luggage, said we were overweight and had to pay, Who's gonna argue?

One client I had travelled a lot to Nigeria. Apparently, it was commonplace for airport officials to help themselves to your watch. Nope, I don't want any part of that bloody continent ever again.

Rob C

drmike

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Re: Hanging clothes
« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2015, 04:39:11 pm »

You're too harsh on Africa and you've been unlucky. Ghana was delightful but the stories that came out of Nigeria were terrifying even 30 years ago. What I loved was getting off the plane and smelling the heat and dust, lovely. The customs guys could try and pinch stuff but I learned to stand my ground and be very stiff British about it. Seemed to work.

I learned patience and to go with the flow when there. If it took three visits and four days to buy a crate of beer then so be it. And it did. Flour was worse and car tyres was ridiculous and I had to hide the tyres as I left the factory despite buying them quite legally. Young and stupid.

I wouldn't have been happy with your Kenyan trip, and while there were tribal tensions in Ghana they never erupted into violence.

Best creepy crawly story from me was coming home in the dark walking onto veranda to see a scorpion in front of the door. Quick huddled discussion round the corner and we decide to clout it with the broom so we creep round to do this dastardly deed, and the bloody thing's gone. But where? Easily indoors or equally easily to the garden. We were a little tentative walking about for a day. The guys in the office assured me that the cat would take out a scorpion any day and I did find a dead one outside once.

Snakes: Got up, went out onto the creeper covered veranda and saw the cat sitting staring into the creeper. Gave him a nudge with my foot and he didn't budge so I bent down and put my head next to his and saw a green snake's head staring him out. Scoop up cat and depart thank you. Again the guys in the office assured me the cat would have had the snake 9 times out 10. They seemed to have great faith in cats but I noticed they didn't keep any themselves :) They did like to tease the white boy.

Now we await the Australians to arrive with far more scary stories of spiders and snakes. If it's poisonous it seems to live in Australia.

But growing up in India you must have met snakes day in day out surely? We saw a couple and to my delight a wild mongoose ran across our path. In fact you have snakes where you live now don't you?

Mike
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Rob C

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Re: Hanging clothes
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2015, 05:41:00 am »

Mike,

Snakes. No, despite living in a house built in a pretty wild rocky landscape of low hills, I can't remember seeing any snakes on the ground at all. We certainly found a lot of dry snake skins upon the upper verandahs, possibly blown up there by wind. Between the ages of about eight and twelve I used to run riot amongst those rocks wih my catapult and air pistol, trying to hit blue jays and such, but fortunately (now) I always misssed, except for one unlucky flying fox, one evening, that had the misfortune to fly into my .177 pellet and come down to Earth in a terminal bump. Of course, that single shot didn't kill it, so I had the distressing task of having to do that personally as it looked at me. I don't think I shot anything after that. But the thing is, despite being a native zone for cobras, I saw not a single one, other than performing from a basket.

Scorpions were a dozen a penny: black ones, about six or more inches long would appear on the inside window ledges. How the hell they got up there I never knew. I was told that though painful, they probably weren't deadly, that the much smaller yellowish ones were the ones to fear. I hedged my bets and avoided all types. The only snakes that I did see, in huge numbers, were to be found hanging like bootlaces from the branches of a custard apple tree that grew nearby. These seemed to be seasonal (the snakes, not the trees) and they vanished as quickly as they seemed to arrive. Hell knows where they spent the rest of the time.

Mongooses we had aplenty. We used to watch them run around before sunset, and I suppose that's why I saw no ground snakes at all. A worry was rabies, and the pye-dogs that would sometimes come up to the outer garden walls and howl like madmen; as with crazy people, you knew that you couldn't reason your way out of trouble with them.

The strange thing is, there came an age, probably when I was about fourteen, when I realised the dangers that lurked all around and possibly even within that house, and my 'hunting' days were over. Oddly, I still enjoyed swimming in the Bay of Bengal despite the sharks, and only after Jaws did my adult swimming become spoiled a bit by that pesky tune whenever I hit the waves.

But I'm still around, so there must be somebody looking out for me up there. Thank you!

Rob C
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