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Author Topic: Trickster, manipulator, deceiver / Someone with something to say  (Read 9953 times)

tnargs

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Re: Trickster, manipulator, deceiver / Someone with something to say
« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2015, 08:44:55 PM »

You bet :)

I would rather poke my eye with a plastic spoon than talk to "genuinely nice" people (a PC term for those whose sense of humor was surgically removed at birth) that are genuinely booooriiing.
Classic example. Yet you talked to me. Self-contradictory. Pointless.
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Rob C

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Re: Trickster, manipulator, deceiver / Someone with something to say
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2015, 04:06:23 AM »

Thank you, I agree with this wholeheartedly. I too am sick of people who write 'smartypants' comments that are sarcastic and negative either directly or by implication, but because they wrap it in notional humour or wit, they think it's okay.

Leave that stuff for your personal blog, people. For a community forum, be genuinely nice. When necessary, disagree with people cordially and respectfully.


Are you suggesting we all get us to a nunnery?

The nightmare that you suggest would mean that this entire site would be closed in under two weeks due to lack of clicks; then, of course, your own 'blog' or whatever you suggest could/would be the new fanstasy world and reign supreme: a perfect world with you the sole commander, contributor and reader! Heaven - for you. Why would you need Lula at all? Why do you need it now?

Lighten up or light out, would be my attitude, and FWIW I'd hoof the PC angels out before most of the spammers or trolls; at the very least, if a bit bent or misguided, the trolls are of this world.

Rob C

stamper

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Re: Trickster, manipulator, deceiver / Someone with something to say
« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2015, 04:34:09 AM »

Classic example. Yet you talked to me. Self-contradictory. Pointless.

I believe there is a vacancy for a moderator on the forum....hopefully you won't apply and better still if you do then you won't get it. Could you stick to posting with regards to photography and leave the moderation to the owners of the site? ::)

Rob C

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Re: Trickster, manipulator, deceiver / Someone with something to say
« Reply #23 on: December 16, 2015, 10:08:21 AM »

I believe there is a vacancy for a moderator on the forum....hopefully you won't apply and better still if you do then you won't get it. Could you stick to posting with regards to photography and leave the moderation to the owners of the site? ::)

stamper! Merry Christmas!

Rob C

;-)

stamper

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Re: Trickster, manipulator, deceiver / Someone with something to say
« Reply #24 on: December 16, 2015, 10:26:08 AM »

stamper! Merry Christmas!

Rob C

;-)

Merry Christmas to you Rob!

Isaac

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Re: Trickster, manipulator, deceiver / Someone with something to say
« Reply #25 on: December 16, 2015, 01:47:13 PM »

Classic example. Yet you talked to me. Self-contradictory. Pointless.

Food for trolls ;-)
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trickster, manipulator, deceiver / Someone with something to say
« Reply #26 on: December 16, 2015, 03:32:48 PM »

Food for trolls ;-)

Merry Christmas, Isaac!  :)

AreBee

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Re: Trickster, manipulator, deceiver / Someone with something to say
« Reply #27 on: January 24, 2016, 02:45:46 PM »

Isaac,

Quote from: David Byrne
Making music is like constructing a machine whose function is to dredge up emotions in performer and listener alike. Some people find this idea repulsive, because it seems to relegate the artist to the level of trickster, manipulator, and deceiver -- a kind of self-justifying onanist. They would prefer to see music as an expression of emotion rather than a generator of it, to believe in the artist as someone with something to say."

Who is the machine constructor?
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Isaac

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Re: Trickster, manipulator, deceiver / Someone with something to say
« Reply #28 on: January 24, 2016, 04:51:28 PM »

Who is the machine constructor?

In the analogy, those making music.
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AreBee

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Re: Trickster, manipulator, deceiver / Someone with something to say
« Reply #29 on: January 24, 2016, 05:52:35 PM »

Isaac,

Quote
In the analogy, those making music.

Perhaps those with something to say trick/manipulate/deceive others in order to ensure that their message cannot be misinterpreted.
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Isaac

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Re: Trickster, manipulator, deceiver / Someone with something to say
« Reply #30 on: January 24, 2016, 08:42:17 PM »

Perhaps you prefer "to believe in the artist as someone with something to say."
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AreBee

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Re: Trickster, manipulator, deceiver / Someone with something to say
« Reply #31 on: January 25, 2016, 05:51:47 AM »

Isaac,

Quote
Perhaps you prefer "to believe in the artist as someone with something to say."

As before, perhaps trickster/manipulator/deceiver and someone with something to say are not mutually exclusive.
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Jagatai

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Re: Trickster, manipulator, deceiver / Someone with something to say
« Reply #32 on: January 28, 2016, 01:27:53 PM »

The idea expressed in the original post, I think, more rightly refers to the problem of the hack artist.  An artist like Thomas Kinkade can find an effective emotionally manipulating technique and then use it to get a specific and predictable reaction from the viewer.  But I don't think that is what is effective in art.  Good art is an exploration that is begun by the artist and picked up and continued by the audience.  Art, like science, should never begin with the answer it is looking for, but instead look at evidence or experiences as the raw material to propel one toward a new or more complex understanding of the world.

The idea that an artist "has something to say" is a bit of a confounding point.  My take on this issue is that art is not about saying something.  It is about searching and discovering and communicating an experience.  If you begin a work of art with the intention of making a specific statement, what you are actually doing is creating propaganda.  It might be very nice propaganda, but it isn't going to be a transformative experience for the viewer.  Where art can be quite powerful is when the artist is open to new experience and searching for answers they do not already have.  If that artist has adequate skill, they may be able to create an image that communicates that discovery to an audience.
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Isaac

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Re: Trickster, manipulator, deceiver / Someone with something to say
« Reply #33 on: January 28, 2016, 01:53:00 PM »

The idea expressed in the original post, I think, more rightly refers to the problem of the hack artist.

That was David Byrne writing about what he experienced making music.

I don't think the intention was to disparage others as "the hack artist".
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trickster, manipulator, deceiver / Someone with something to say
« Reply #34 on: January 28, 2016, 02:31:37 PM »

Yo, man, Jagatai, how rude of you to interrupt such a nice string of mind-numbing bickering that was going on before you decided to interrupt it with your reasonable comments! ;)

GrahamBy

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Re: Trickster, manipulator, deceiver / Someone with something to say
« Reply #35 on: January 29, 2016, 09:43:57 AM »

One man's hack...

I once spoke with a film critic who felt that any use of music in film was a cheap trick to manipulate the emotions of the viewer. He thus held that the film "The Piano" was second rate, since the music was emotionally powerful...

His point of view seemed to me to be arbitrary hair-shirt purism, but maybe moving on from the silent era degraded cinema's pretension to art...
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AreBee

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Re: Trickster, manipulator, deceiver / Someone with something to say
« Reply #36 on: March 30, 2016, 02:15:10 PM »

Quote from: Thom Hogan
...film and video directors know about perspective. Itís one of the ways they manipulate you. So why arenít you using it in your still work?
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James Clark

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Re: Trickster, manipulator, deceiver / Someone with something to say
« Reply #37 on: April 07, 2016, 05:28:22 PM »

Quote
Quote from: Thom Hogan
...film and video directors know about perspective. Itís one of the ways they manipulate you. So why arenít you using it in your still work?

Fascinating thoughts.  And, for me at least, almost spot on:

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wmchauncey

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Re: Trickster, manipulator, deceiver / Someone with something to say
« Reply #38 on: April 09, 2016, 09:15:17 AM »

Quote
Yo, man, Jagatai, how rude of you to interrupt such a nice string of mind-numbing bickering that was going on before you decided to interrupt it with your reasonable comments!
To me, that sounded more like the blather that one might receive during a "philosophy of art class".
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