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Author Topic: Which of the Baryta papers to choose and how and why?  (Read 7015 times)

Sunshine7

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Which of the Baryta papers to choose and how and why?
« on: November 27, 2015, 07:59:19 pm »

Hi all,

I am a big fan of Breathing Colors line of canvas and paper (Lyve canvas, Pura Velvet paper, Vibrance Metallic for example, and I'm looking to add their Silverada Metalic canvas as well as their Crystalline canvas to the mix to use this for photo prints on canvas, as well as their Vibrance Luster photo paper) and I am now looking to add a Baryta to my print options. Breathing Color is redoing their Baryta and they could not tell me when their improved Baryta is coming to the market so I am looking for alternatives.

This also in order to expand my small business where I mainly print for some friends as well as our own fine art reproductions. On request I'm now looking to print for some other photographers in my area, using only the absolute best papers etc. in order to stand out from our local print shop that just uses Epson papers. And I think its more fun that way too.

It sounds from what I read on this forum that Hahnemuhle Satin Baryta and Canson Platine would be good options, but I would love some input. Which Baryta papers would you recommend and why? or why not?

I have an Epson 9900 as well as a Canon ipf8400.

As an aside, I'm using the Ergosoft rip program which is an absolute pain to learn, and so far I've just used custom 'print environments' (these contain density linearizations as well as the printer profile) which were setup by people that know what they're doing, (and who paid a fortune in paper and consulting fees to get to where they are) but I've not found someone that has set Baryta papers up using Ergosoft, so I'll need to figure out dithering, dot sizes and ink limits etc by myself. (and I actually do not know what dot sizes are ;-) Anyway, maybe I can get some help from my friend who helped me before with this. But I do not really want to try different Baryta's to do this, because I know I'll spend too much time and money on this which I do not have available.

Thanks for any help with this! Always really appreciate the responses on this forum.

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Jimbo57

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Re: Which of the Baryta papers to choose and how and why?
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2015, 05:39:35 am »

The only baryta paper that I can recommend (because it is the only one I use and I have never had any reason to change) is Fotospeed Platinum Baryta 300. It gives a very pleasing unglazed gloss image when I want something different from my usual matte papers.

How it compares with others could only be assessed by someone who has used others.
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Jager

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Re: Which of the Baryta papers to choose and how and why?
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2015, 05:58:36 am »

Ilford's Gold Fiber Silk and Canson's Baryta Photographique are the two alpha-cellulose Baryta papers you'll hear recommended the most.  You should find them very similar to Hahnemuhle's version, I would think.  I used (and loved) Ilford's Gold Fiber Silk years ago when it first arrived.  When Ilford went through its first bankruptcy and that paper was discontinued I moved to Canson's Baryta Photographique (which seems to be the identical paper), which is what I continue using today.

All three Baryta papers from those firms are outstanding.  Just pick one.

Canson's Platine Fibre Rag has a similar Baryta finish, but on a cotton rag substrate.  It has a wonderful, elegant, tactile quality to it.  I can't recommend it highly enough when providing your very best prints to clients or galleries.

Sorry, no experience with StudioPrint.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2015, 06:03:36 am by Jager »
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rdonson

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Re: Which of the Baryta papers to choose and how and why?
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2015, 10:38:24 am »

On my Epson SC P800 I use Hahnemuhle Photo Silk Baryta and love the deep blacks I'm getting.

That said, Jeff's post has caused me to order some Canson to give it a try.  I hope the ICC profiles from their website are good.
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Regards,
Ron

Sbarroso

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Re: Which of the Baryta papers to choose and how and why?
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2015, 01:33:27 pm »

The first I would say is: You have to see/test the papers! Descriptions may be vague. Some differences are hard to describe, but I can be huge for you(r taste).

second: When talking about "baryta", I would say "baryta-like". I mean, all Glossy non-RC papers (satin/luster/pearl finish) are competing in the same league. After some discussions in this forum, I haven't find yet any advantage of using papers with the "baryta" word vs those who don't have it. Some times there is just baryta enough to be allow to write this word, so very little.
The sames happens with "rag" (cotton) vs "fiber" (alpha cellulose). The first has higher reputation, but in practice it has to do more with the origin of the material than it's quality, which is in principle the same. So don't be impressed for words like Baryta and Rag. They tend to deliver ultimate quality, but they are not alone. Look at the final result.

What makes a difference on quality is if they contain OBAs (optical brighteners) or not. The first ones will reduce the longevity of your prints. Ilford Glod fiber silk, Canson baryta photographic and Hahnemühle Silk Baryta (which are virtually the same paper) contain some OBA, although it has been mentioned that their amount is acceptable, with little compromise. If you like bright whites and archival properties is not your ultimate goal, you can go for papers with OBA, other wise, keep away.

I currently use Hahnemühle papers: Silk baryta (common prints, best quality/price ratio), Baryta Satin (I love the surface, although it may be too warm for some applications) and Rag Baryta. I also use some times the Harman by Hanhnemühle Gloss baryta, for those pictures that demand extra gloss (mainly some landscapes), but it contains more OBAs than the Silk. (The "Warm Gloss Baryta" version contains OBA too!!).

To put an example about "Baryta": The canson Plantine does not contain baryta, and the Hahnemühle Rag pearl neither, but their are excellent papers and can be considered in the group of "baryta feeling".


Best,
Santiago

DeanChriss

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Re: Which of the Baryta papers to choose and how and why?
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2015, 07:15:47 am »

On my Epson SC P800 I use Hahnemuhle Photo Silk Baryta and love the deep blacks I'm getting.

That said, Jeff's post has caused me to order some Canson to give it a try.  I hope the ICC profiles from their website are good.

I can see no difference between Canson Baryta Photographique, Hahnemuhle Photo Silk Baryta, and Ilford Gold Fiber Silk. I now use these interchangeably with the same profiles and get identical results on a Epson 7900.

See http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=100684.msg824746#msg824746
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- Dean

hugowolf

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Re: Which of the Baryta papers to choose and how and why?
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2015, 10:47:45 am »

It is probably worth pointing out that all these baryta type papers have quite delicate surfaces and can easily be scuffed. And all of them to some degree are prone to flecks of debris on the surface, which if not brushed of prior of printing, drop off after and leave a bare spot underneath.

It seems probably that Canson Baryta Photographique, Hahnemuhle Photo Silk Baryta, and Ilford Gold Fiber Silk are coated by the same company. But I can tell one from another by looking at the base paper.

And fibre/fiber does not refer to softwood pulp based papers. It is used in the photographic world somewhat strangely to refer to all baryta type papers. The full name of Canson's Platine, for example, is Platine Fibre Rag. The term alpha cellulose is also used strangely in the industry to denote softwood pulp based papers, unprocessed softwood pulp being less than 50% α-cellulose, and unprocessed cotton more than 90% α-cellulose.

Brian A
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Sunshine7

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Re: Which of the Baryta papers to choose and how and why?
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2015, 03:20:46 am »

Thanks all, that is very helpful!

Really appreciate everyones responses to my 'quest'.
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TylerB

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Re: Which of the Baryta papers to choose and how and why?
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2015, 06:59:13 pm »

I'm not sure now, after these have been around a while, the Baryta label means very much. After going through quite a few, I settled on PhotRag Baryta some time ago, as it had no OBAs, was a very neutral base, and the gloss differential and bronzing were minimal. Gloss differential is what kept me form using the Canson offerings, though I like their matte fine art papers. After some years of QC problems with PhotoRag Baryta, with Hahnemuhle's input I switched to PhotoRag Pearl, which performs equally well, but was flawless roll after roll. The difference between the papers is nearly impossible to detect, so the presence of baryta seems a negligible contribution to me.  There are manufacturing reasons the one has problems the other does not, and I will not get into that here.
One little discussed baryta alternative paper I like a lot is Cone Type 5. It is a bit warmer, and has more texture, bit it's a very natural looking texture that avoids that fake manufactured surface. It also performs very well.
Lastly, I had a chance to test some of the Hahnemuhle Silk Baryta, and was very impressed, surface very natural, prints looked nice, did not have a blue OBA look.
Any other baryta or photo surface papers have fallen short, or I have not had sufficient experience with them for a sound conclusion.

I've run more PhotoRag Pearl than any other photo surface paper, the prints always look great, the gamut and dmax excellent, no quality problems at all. If I were printing more photo surface prints again, I'd run more of the Silk to get more experience over time, looked promising.
That's all I got....
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pluton

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Re: Which of the Baryta papers to choose and how and why?
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2015, 02:26:22 am »

I can see no difference between Canson Baryta Photographique, Hahnemuhle Photo Silk Baryta, and Ilford Gold Fiber Silk. I now use these interchangeably with the same profiles and get identical results on a Epson 7900.
You can add Arista II Baryta Photo(Freestyle house brand) to this list of apparently identical papers.
Personally, I liked the Harman By Hanhnemule Baryta Gloss Photo, but they never solved the curvature problems so I gave up.
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Michael Tyler

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Re: Which of the Baryta papers to choose and how and why?
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2015, 05:39:40 pm »

Just one more point of data, but Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Baryta is the most durable paper I have found.  I did the fingernail test on a number papers and all of them (as would be reasonable to expect) lost their top layer of ink when intentionally scratched.  PR Baryta didn't.  It dented where I scratched it but the ink stayed firm. 

This may not have as much relevance to others as it does to me.  I bind albums and need something durable.  But thought it would add to the conversation. 
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