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Author Topic: Windows 10  (Read 13018 times)

Alan Klein

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Windows 10
« on: November 25, 2015, 10:10:16 pm »

I'm running 8.1 and got a message I can upgrade to Windows 10 for free.  Should I? What advantages to 10?  What possible downsides to the upgrade?

one iota

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Re: Windows 10
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2015, 10:18:49 pm »

I lost use of Spyder pro 3 (monitor calibration) and therefore had to do an upgrade to 5. Also some backup software from a now defunct mob. Other than that i seems ok with the plethora of apps that I run on two computers. It seems to be more stable than windows 7 and the updates are less intrusive.
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Mahn England

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Re: Windows 10
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2015, 04:55:40 am »

I've been running Win 10 on my laptop since August (updated from 8.1) and had very few problems with the original release. But be cautious with the November update to v 1511 build 10586 ('Threshold 2'), as that apparently 'broke' my CS6 Creative Suite installation, as well as several other unrelated programs, with repeated error messages about missing .dlls. I can only assume that the update replaces those particular system .dlls with updated versions that are incompatible with earlier applications.

Should you find yourself in that situation, the solution is one or both of the following:

(1) Copy older versions of both mscvr100.dll and mscvp100.dll from elsewhere into the appropriate folder for each of the affected programs in the Adobe suite so that the local versions are used instead - I found suitable versions in the Adobe Bridge folders, but these are widely used .dlls so you probably have numerous other copies elsewhere on your system.

(2) Install/reinstall/repair the VC++ Redistributable Package v2012 Update 4 (downloadable from Microsoft)

(3) Other people have also reported finding it necessary to repair the .NET framework, but that made no difference in my case.

One possible downside is that Win 10 updates are now mandatory and are downloaded and installed automatically, which has caused problems in a few cases. On the Home version you can't avoid them at all, on Win 10 Pro they can be delayed temporarily.

There has also been a lot of concern about the EULA and possible privacy infringements as a result of the increased telemetry in Win 10, although recent updates to both Win 8 and Win 7 have also attempted to introduce (much of) the same telemetry to those earlier versions. Superficially there's perhaps some merit in that argument, but at the moment it's hard to distinguish the fact from the internet hysteria, and whether you consider that an assault on your privacy or an attempt by MS to improve the operation of their software probably depends on your degree of paranoia and whether your glass is half full or half empty.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Windows 10
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2015, 08:35:16 am »

 What's the expression?  If it ain't broke,  why fix

Are there any benefits with  10?

Some Guy

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Re: Windows 10
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2015, 09:56:56 am »

I've been running Win 10 on my laptop since August (updated from 8.1) and had very few problems with the original release. But be cautious with the November update to v 1511 build 10586 ('Threshold 2'), as that apparently 'broke' my CS6 Creative Suite installation, as well as several other unrelated programs, with repeated error messages about missing .dlls. I can only assume that the update replaces those particular system .dlls with updated versions that are incompatible with earlier applications.

Should you find yourself in that situation, the solution is one or both of the following:

(1) Copy older versions of both mscvr100.dll and mscvp100.dll from elsewhere into the appropriate folder for each of the affected programs in the Adobe suite so that the local versions are used instead - I found suitable versions in the Adobe Bridge folders, but these are widely used .dlls so you probably have numerous other copies elsewhere on your system.

(2) Install/reinstall/repair the VC++ Redistributable Package v2012 Update 4 (downloadable from Microsoft)

(3) Other people have also reported finding it necessary to repair the .NET framework, but that made no difference in my case.

One possible downside is that Win 10 updates are now mandatory and are downloaded and installed automatically, which has caused problems in a few cases. On the Home version you can't avoid them at all, on Win 10 Pro they can be delayed temporarily.

There has also been a lot of concern about the EULA and possible privacy infringements as a result of the increased telemetry in Win 10, although recent updates to both Win 8 and Win 7 have also attempted to introduce (much of) the same telemetry to those earlier versions. Superficially there's perhaps some merit in that argument, but at the moment it's hard to distinguish the fact from the internet hysteria, and whether you consider that an assault on your privacy or an attempt by MS to improve the operation of their software probably depends on your degree of paranoia and whether your glass is half full or half empty.

I'm glad I'm not the only one with Windows 10 issues.

Brand new computer, about one week old and came with Windows 10 Home.  Did the November update first as well as some drivers and it is really screwed up!  The CBS.log and DISM.log files show all sorts of errors, directories duplicated or not found, Warnings, damn .NET Framework 2.0, 3.5, and 4.0 errors, etc.  I show 5 warnings in the DISM.log, but the CBS.log is riddled with issues.

I had the issue with x-rite's software as well but found it related to some 3rd party gamer sound stuff for Surround 7 or something they use.  Got rid of that as well as the Norton AV trial it came with as their SONAR was buggering up the USB ports for their hardware.  So it went too.

However, the issues with the November update still exist in the two log files mentioned.  I didn't want to proceed further since I have perpetual license with Adobe (1 used and could not be deactivated on the older computer that crashed.) so I'm holding back installing stuff until it is clean in the logs.

I gave up and took it to a computer shop and they "supposedly" fixed it for $85, but the logs show errors and warnings still.  They said to bring it back on Monday (Holiday closure.).  They also said they got a bunch of them in since this November update as well.

When MS screws up an update, they really screw up.  They did that with 8.0 to 8.1 on my old computer and it never did another update since that screwy update they issued in Summer of 2014. I would advise against their auto-update if at all possible.

Sidebar on Google Chrome it also installed.  X-rite, when they were on Team Viewer trying to figure out why i1 Profiler wasn't working (and failed), mentioned Chrome had the worst color of any browser out there.  My chief complaint was when I tried to download Firefox, Chrome sent me to other sites first with ads like "While we search, we thought you'd like to see Bit-Defender" as some sort of web ad.  What the heck?  Wonder how much Bit-Defender paid for that interruption search ad?  Probably why so much ad and privacy stuff comes up in the setup of Windows of 10 too (Which I disabled but somehow MS doesn't listen and also issued an update to that too the past week.).

I should have left the old computer on Windows 7 it came with and never installed 8 which was a mess and finally took it down too when it "black screened" (You cannot get back into it and will need to do a fresh install which also wipes out your ability to deactivate any software prior too.).  Sager computers warned me against moving to newer OS (8.0 then and onto 8.1) may not play nice with older hardware.  Seems they were right, and I lost a $4,000 Sager notebook too.

So now I got a cheaper $3,000 brand new notebook that still doesn't work right.  Yay!  >:(

As mentioned: "If it ain't broke..."

SG

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Alan Klein

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Re: Windows 10
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2015, 11:18:36 am »

Ok I'm convinced.   I'm staying with 8.1. 

Jimbo57

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Re: Windows 10
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2015, 11:31:31 am »

It's very odd.

Several friends apparently upgraded to Windows 10 without much problem, so I took the plunge.

Within a week I was back with Windows 7 because of the problems I encountered.

I am still holding off trying again, thinking that it might be better to wait another few months to let MS get some of the problems ironed out.

But, as I said, it is very odd. Without exception, the friends who reported no problems back in August/September have subsequently hit problems. No real pattern - they range from the merely inconvenient to the unusable.

On top of that, a couple of friends who have bought new PCs with Windows 10 pre-installed have also hit problems, in one case necessitating returning the PC to the shop. So it is not just upgrades that are causing problems. New installations seem to have them too.
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Some Guy

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Re: Windows 10
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2015, 11:56:23 am »

...

On top of that, a couple of friends who have bought new PCs with Windows 10 pre-installed have also hit problems, in one case necessitating returning the PC to the shop. So it is not just upgrades that are causing problems. New installations seem to have them too.

...

This is what is so weird with a brand new computer and Windows 10 Home pre-installed in them.  It self-destructs once you start it up, and then it goes out and begins to do its disastrous updating.

Anyone doubting this on Windows 10, go check your C:\Windows\Log files, especially the DISM.log and the CBS.log ones and look for the Errors and Warnings.  Jeeze!  What a mess to figure out.

The computer fix-it store told me to download and use "Macrium Reflect Free" which will reinstall the working Windows 10, but only after the DISM.log and CBS.og are error free.  It will allow for a roll-back into the same machine.  They use it as a restore for their client's (i.e. Docs and lawyers) computers that constantly have issues with other people using them.

Right now, for me, I think the best plan is to buy the damn Windows 10 Home disk and install it as new on a new machine, but the store's disks are likely not the November ones so it really is a futile mess to dig through (Similar to Windows 8.0 to 8.1.).  I'll let the computer fix-it people have another go at it Monday.  They said they'll refund my $85 if they can't make Windows 10 run "CLEANLY"  without all these damn log errors that seem to build daily.

Brother went to 10 via 8.1 and I haven't gotten an email from him in over a month.  So I called and his 'puter is messed up and won't even email or find his router on 10.  He's putz'ed with it for a couple of weeks and will need to take it in.  I just offered to download the Wi-Fi drivers for his HP computer and then send them to him, but since he cannot even get online that idea is toast.  His Ethernet cable is non-op too.  Computer fix-it shops must love the new 10 business.


And Alan, you know you really want to load Windows 10 to try it out.  MS says it's great and you need it!  After all, it's fun to try and figure out what stopped working, and then to roll back to Windows 7 while residual crap of 10 is left behind - and then it slowly self-corrupts itself and never works right again!  EVER!!   ;)

SG
« Last Edit: November 26, 2015, 01:35:43 pm by Some Guy »
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armand

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Re: Windows 10
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2015, 12:03:07 pm »

I just updated this morning to the November update before I saw this post and so far so good, I don't see any issues and I had no problems with Win10 on multiple computers (1 homemade desktop and 2 laptops).
The only only that didn't work was an older Lenovo Thinkpad where it had issues with the double video card during install (after multiple trials I was able to get past) and then it didn't like the wireless card with poor reception so I decided to just switch back as I don't really use it that much anyway.

So all in all it Win10 works quite well for me, better that Win8.

Some Guy

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Re: Windows 10
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2015, 02:57:26 pm »

I just updated this morning to the November update before I saw this post and so far so good, I don't see any issues and I had no problems with Win10 on multiple computers (1 homemade desktop and 2 laptops).
The only only that didn't work was an older Lenovo Thinkpad where it had issues with the double video card during install (after multiple trials I was able to get past) and then it didn't like the wireless card with poor reception so I decided to just switch back as I don't really use it that much anyway.

So all in all it Win10 works quite well for me, better that Win8.

armand, could you check the two log files I mentioned above in yours that work.  I've since bolded those two prior that are messing up. (i.e. The dism.log and cbs.log under C:\Windows\Logs)

Mine works, but the errors and warnings are buried in those two files and the computer fix-it shop missed them.   I found a couple of others online with the exact same issue since they took the November update as well and they have the exact same the same 5 Warning" errors in their DISM.log file too since the Nov. update.  First two are fairly close together in the DISM.log, and the other three appear shortly thereafter.

I won't even mentioned the CBS.log file mess.  That's another issue for later.  One mess at a time.

Sure, Windows 10 Home will run, just not "Cleanly" and likely will get knackered up later too.

SG
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Alan Klein

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Re: Windows 10
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2015, 10:38:44 pm »

...

And Alan, you know you really want to load Windows 10 to try it out.  MS says it's great and you need it!  After all, it's fun to try and figure out what stopped working, and then to roll back to Windows 7 while residual crap of 10 is left behind - and then it slowly self-corrupts itself and never works right again!  EVER!!   ;)

SG


Even if it worked, what advantage is there over 8.1?  I mean I realize we're all masochists with these things.  Sort of like picking at a scab and watching it bleed all over again.  Or updating your wife for a new model.  But really?  What's the point of Windows 10?

Farmer

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Re: Windows 10
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2015, 11:13:17 pm »

It has a better interface, uses less resources, is more stable, has some new features.  And it's a free upgrade.

Really, the vast, vast majority of users are having no issues.  Sucks if you are having problems, of course.
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Phil Brown

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Re: Windows 10
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2015, 01:44:03 am »

  What's the point of Windows 10?
I am running Windows 7. Generally, I would expect new OS versions to have improved security, tweaks to the kernel for performance, all kinds of little stuff that developers have been working on for the last couple of years that makes for more efficient and safer computing.

Occasionally, things slip (Windows ME, Windows Vista, Windows 8, Lightroom 6.x). That is the great thing about forums like this. In our particular case, we might be particularly concerned about quirky things that the general public do not care about (color management, printer management).

I am very curious about how Windows 10 + Lightroom + X-rite i1 display pro + Epson 3880 works out for fellow members.

-h
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drmike

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Re: Windows 10
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2015, 04:53:11 am »

armand, could you check the two log files I mentioned above in yours that work.  I've since bolded those two prior that are messing up. (i.e. The dism.log and cbs.log under C:\Windows\Logs)

I won't even mentioned the CBS.log file mess.  That's another issue for later.  One mess at a time.


I have performed all the recent updates on my Win 10 machine, looked at the logs you suggest searched for error and can't find any entries at all. This was an upgrade from Win 8 to 8.1 to 10 on a very low spec laptop. It seems to run LR CC OK and I have checked the event viewer and any errors in there don't seem too worrying given that every PC I look at seems to have lots anyway.

I hope that you have been unlucky and that it gets sorted.

I would definitely use Windows 10 for my main development laptop if I was buying now but only with a touch screen. I think it's the best version I have seen in a long time. If the baby laptop I run it on had a bit more oomph then I'd probably use it when on site. However, jumping from 7 to 10 is a big leap, from 8.1 to 10 seems all positive to me. But as ever YMMV - and yours clearly did.
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Pictus

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Re: Windows 10
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2015, 05:06:54 am »

I am very curious about how Windows 10 + Lightroom + X-rite i1 display pro + Epson 3880 works out for fellow members.

A clean installlation of Windows 10 + Photoshop  + lots of programs + i1Display Pro(Argyll+dispcalGUI) works perfect!
The video and sound driver was installed manually and I disabled a lot of things manually and with the free http://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10
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Pictus

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Re: Windows 10
« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2015, 05:23:59 am »

armand, could you check the two log files I mentioned above in yours that work.  I've since bolded those two prior that are messing up. (i.e. The dism.log and cbs.log under C:\Windows\Logs)

Mine works, but the errors and warnings are buried in those two files and the computer fix-it shop missed them.   I found a couple of others online with the exact same issue since they took the November update as well and they have the exact same the same 5 Warning" errors in their DISM.log file too since the Nov. update.  First two are fairly close together in the DISM.log, and the other three appear shortly thereafter.

I won't even mentioned the CBS.log file mess.  That's another issue for later.  One mess at a time.

Sure, Windows 10 Home will run, just not "Cleanly" and likely will get knackered up later too.

SG

Like all Windows version, the event viewer was displaying some minor/inoffensive errors and with a bit of research/google I was able to fix.
To make easier to read, better clear the event viewer http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/320451-event-viewer-clear-all-events.html
so it only displays the new errors...

BTW, only one inoffensive error remains...
It is the same since Windows 7, something about the USB hub of the monitor...
Nothing to worry about, all is well here. :)
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armand

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Re: Windows 10
« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2015, 08:53:58 am »

I will try today but honestly I don't see the point. I never check those error logs if I don't have problems (I did once when I had some random restarts and they were useless), as said above Windows reports lots of stupid things that have no practical significance.

Some Guy

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Re: Windows 10
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2015, 11:21:44 am »

I will try today but honestly I don't see the point. I never check those error logs if I don't have problems (I did once when I had some random restarts and they were useless), as said above Windows reports lots of stupid things that have no practical significance.

Thanks for the look into your dism and cbs logs for errors.  In need to haul mine back into the shop again Monday to clean up the November mess as their first run still shows the same errors and warnings.  Their shop has a few computers in since the update and I've found a couple of others fighting the exact same 5 directory errors as my new one.  Their head guy told me MS has pulled a few updates since too, but it's good business for them too.

Point is they can build until the bad happens (i.e. A new install that wipes your programs and files.  You might lose one license if you cannot deactivate $$ software before it pukes.  Wasn't supposed to erase photos in folders but it did that too.).  Happened to me when it would only boot to a totally black screen and you cannot even safe-boot 8.1 unless you have a working Windows installed.  Shovingin the OS disk gave me a "Disk is Locked"  (?!!?)  message and only option was fresh install.  I somehow lost the old drivers which the new OS would not even connect to the internet again.

My brother's is dead now since the update to 10 as his wi-fi radio isn't working so he cannot to the router to get the drivers (or hard-cable either), nor can I send them to him since he cannot even get onto the net now to receive them.  So he has to haul his in too (It was an upgrade from 8 that went bad.).

Local businessman friend runs 8.1 but his QuickBooks is often acting up.  I looked at his dism.log for fun (It's a year old HP desktop with a touch-screen monitor.) and half of the dism.log is in Chinese.  No kidding!   His is a mess and shows all his re-installs/recovers that he does weekly to keep it running.  Why 3/4 of it is in Chinese characters is a new one.  I got a bad feeling his is going into the tank soon and I keep telling him he needs to back it up, but backing up now is backing a his current mess too.

As the fix-it shop told me, "Don't make an image of the Windows 10 Home until it is running 100% correct."  They recommended something called "Macrium Reflect Free" for a re-install of the OS into the same machine once the logs are plu-perfect -- but only then too.

SG
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Alan Klein

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Re: Windows 10
« Reply #18 on: November 28, 2015, 10:46:24 pm »

How to I stop the nag screen that keeps telling me to upgrade to Windows 10?

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Re: Windows 10
« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2015, 11:09:12 pm »

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