Water damaged Phase One back, what to do?

[takefive]

Hi everyone,

In a recent trip to Asia, my room got flooded and equipment got submerged in water for a few hours. Even though it is in a bag (so not completely soaked), my P45 doesn't turn on anymore. I'm fearful to do more damage to it so I have not try to test it more.

I'm not sure what are the options for me now.

1. Get it repaired. Repair cost would probably exceed the value of the back in current second hand market (I have seen it going for as low as 3-4000USD). Is there any third party repair centre that can do it cheaper than Phase One in Denmark?

2. Selling it on as faulty. I'm not sure anyone interested in buying a faulty digital back? Maybe dealers who can get it repaired cheaper? How much should I expect for it? Any one has any experience with this please share with me.

I'm not interested in trade in as I do have a back up back and not looking to splash out on new equipment atm.

Any advice appreciated!

[DanielStone]

Were you staying in a hotel? If so, is there any sort of recourse to recuperate damages from them(well, unless it was an "act of God", such as a typhoon/hurricane,flood due to rain, etc...)

Just wondering

[torger]

It's not the P45+, but the older P45 right? The P45+ is valued quite much more due to it's long exposure.

I don't think there are any such third party service centers (I've never heard about anything like that), but maybe some "generic" electronic repair firm could take a look and see if it's something that's easy to repair with standard components. It could be worthwhile to at least ask Phase One what the cost would be, but yes I see it as likely but not certain that it will exceed 3-4000USD. I made a complete E-box replacement (all internal electronics, but not the sensor) for my Leaf Aptus a couple years ago it was €2200 or so, I don't remember exactly, if the price is similar for your repair it could still be worth it.

Otherwise I'd ditch the back and buy a another one in the second hand market. Even if you sometimes takes a big hit, like this, over a longer term you save money when dealing second hand stuff as the new gear is so incredibly expensive. If you get something new really expensive I'd suggest to get an insurance that cover most things.

I think selling as faulty is a bad idea and a big risk of making the buyer disappointed just causing trouble, and you will get so little money for it that it's hardly worth it.

[Altdo]

If you've already put a battery in it to test it, odds are you've damaged it to a point of substantial repair.
For future reference of anyone reading this thread, if you suspect water damage, resist the urge to test the unit out.  Just put it in a bag of dry, uncooked rice (yes rice) and send it to the manufacture as "suspected water damage".  This leaves the evaluation up to them and any faults that may occur due to the mix of electricity and water is on their hands.
Phase One has no doubt seen plenty of units that have made acquaintance with a rogue wave or unforeseen downpour.  Sending it in, packed in rice, will be nothing new to them... though it may throw customs officials off a bit.

It's the best course of action with such an expensive piece of kit and the worst case scenario is they discover it's beyond repair and provide you with an evaluation to state as much for your insurance company.  If you do the testing on your own, it may not be covered by insurance due to negligence.

[Phil Indeblanc]

Did you try putting it in a bag of rice for a couple days minimum?

[takefive]

@Daniel: I was staying at a remote village and it was an "act of God", so I'm out of luck

@Alto, Phil: I did wrap it around several silica bag (beaded type) that is supposed to suck moisture. After a day I just couldnt resist the temptation of trying to turn it on. I dont think anyone of us can? Or just me.

@torger, bcooter: Yes it is the older P45 type. I have been quoted starting price is 2500USD from Phase One dealer. So there might be a small financial sense to do it, but Im not sure its worth the trouble. And it might ended up costing 4k too. However I disagree with bcooter, once Phase One service it, I would be quite confident selling it on (with full repair history). They are known to be thorough with their repair.

I wish Phase One would offer to buy it as part (they dont). They could have repaired it at the own cost and selling it on as refurbished. I can't believe that it has zero value as part though. I guess I have to take this one on the chin.

[JaapD]

Salt water or not? If not then let it dry for a looooong time without the battery, preferably at a higher temperature. On do the rice trick. Or both. In case of salt water then this does not work (salt remains in the camera) and I should send it to PhaseOne for repair. Could easily be beyond economic repair though.

[Paul2660]

The real key, is was it salt or fresh water.  If salt, it's IMO not worth it the damage can be way to excessive.  If fresh, it might just be the $2500.00 cost to repair.  More than likely the CCD is fine, it's the controller card. 

I know of 2 other IQ backs, that were dropped in fresh water, IQ180 and IQ140, both were on at the time.  Both were sent off to Phase and repaired.  Cost was in the $2500 to $4000.00 range. 

If you do send it off, and Phase fixes it, as already mentioned, it will be fully checked out and re-certified by Phase One as a workable back.

Your bigger issue is the current value of the P45 non + and that you can purchase used P45+ backs for pretty good deals now.  And you can pick up a used P45 for even less. 

Phase is through with repairs.

Paul C

[takefive]

@Jaap & Paul: Its fresh/river water. So lucky its not salt, however its also not very clean either. I will try the rice trick one more time. But knowing my luck ..

[eronald]

I am a bit astonished at humidity damage. The problem is that the parts in the back could probably be used to revive a unit with a broken sensor, but that Phase backs rely on a complex calibration which no one except the factory can do, so third party repair is not much of  an option.

all the above is a guess. get a repair quote from Phase, get a competitive upgrade quote from Hassy, and if that doesnt help sell it for parts.


E

[JaapD]

Good to see that it is fresh water! The good news is that electronic components do not get easily damaged by fresh water itself. They get cleaned with much more severe fluids during the manufacturing process.

Example: you can harmlessly put a printed circuit board in a bucket of water. After taking it out and let it dry the board will work just as good.

The only side effect here is if the camera was actually turned on when it was wet. Then currents could start flowing through the water to parts of the circuit that are too sensitive for this.

So the ‘only’ challenge you’re facing now  is to get all the water out….

Best of luck!

[razrblck]

The internal battery may be dead, so that would require replacing, as it probably shorted out. Even if the back was turned off, there's always some current flowing inside to keep the real time clock up to date. The solid capacitors may also be gone if they were charged and shorted (they are usually in the battery circuitry).

If you are lucky, you could get away with some caps and battery replacements, especially if P1 doesn't have spare boards for the P45 at hand. Though I wouldn't advise opening it up unless you really know what you are doing, so as others said it's best to dry it really well and send it.

[tcphoto1]

Sorry to hear, do you not have business, home or renters insurance? At less than $400 a year and with a $500 deductible it takes the sting out of such incidents.

[takefive]

@tcphoto: I do have some form of insurance however it doesnt cover this, being a private trip overseas.

Thanks everyone for some really good advice. I think first I will take the risk of sending it to a camera repairer that has dealt with water damage before and ask them simply trying dry and clean all the electronic component. If that doesn't work then I will get a quote from P1 and see whether its worth it or not.

[eronald]

@tcphoto: I do have some form of insurance however it doesnt cover this, being a private trip overseas.

Thanks everyone for some really good advice. I think first I will take the risk of sending it to a camera repairer that has dealt with water damage before and ask them simply trying dry and clean all the electronic component. If that doesn't work then I will get a quote from P1 and see whether its worth it or not.

I think starting with P1 might be smarter. Backs aren't exactly a staple of standard camera repair houses, who don't get service manuals AFAIK nor do they necessarily have the essential alignment devices if they are not manufacturer approved.

There are two extremely competent and helpful Phase One dealers active on this forum, namely Doug Peterson and Steve Hendrix - they might have the best advice. Why don't you give them a call?

Edmund

PS if I had to choose a back to drop into water, I think I would choose Leaf; I think they have some sort of military-grade double box system.

[Paul2660]

I am sure that the Leaf with its fan would fare no better or possibly worse. At least a Leaf in the same generation as the P45. 

Paul

[eronald]

I am sure that the Leaf with its fan would fare no better or possibly worse. At least a Leaf in the same generation as the P45. 

Paul

Paul, I think the fan is in an outside box with the air ducting, the main electronics stuff in a second box. It is basically a military-grade design.

[razrblck]

Paul, I think the fan is in an outside box with the air ducting, the main electronics stuff in a second box. It is basically a military-grade design.

You can check a tear down of a Leaf Aptus here: http://www.getdpi.com/forum/medium-format-systems-and-digital-backs/52991-aptus-internal-battery.html

There are some metal grills, but water can flow in freely. There also seem to be no gaskets at all (not surprised since the fan is blowing directly inside). I think the sensor itself is the only part that is completely isolated from the outside, but the sensor board is not as you can see it through the connectors holes.

I have to admit, looking inside such an expensive (at the time anyway) digital back is very underwhelming.

Anyway, good luck with the repairs, hopefully the electronics are tough enough and would only need a bit of cleaning.