Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Epson Premium Luster vs. Kodak Professional Lustre  (Read 4687 times)

srubey

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3
Epson Premium Luster vs. Kodak Professional Lustre
« on: November 24, 2015, 06:36:43 pm »

Hi all,

I'm new to the LuLa forum, so apologies if this topic has already been covered elsewhere...

Does anyone have any experience comparing Epson Premium Luster to Kodak Professional Lustre (i.e. the inkjet, not digital-c kind)?  Frankly, I have other papers I would prefer to use if money were no object (love the Moab papers), but I make most of my living from selling prints and am pretty budget conscious at this stage of my business.  Epson Luster has served my needs so far, but I'm considering the possibility of moving my website/printing platform to one of the SmugMug or Photoshelter setups, and it seems that all of the labs they use only offer the Kodak (at least in terms of what I could replicate in-house for smaller sizes on my current printer).  Further research revealed that this seems to be the norm amongst the high-production/low cost print labs...very few labs seem to offer prints on Epson Premium Luster these days, and the ones that do cost an arm and a leg.

Is the Kodak color rendition and d-max on par with the Epson?  It seems to be all the rage for wedding/portrait photographers due to the skin tones, but as a landscape photographer, I'm afraid of going too warm in my paper choice.  Any feedback would be much appreciated!

Thanks,
Scott 
Logged

Wayne Fox

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4237
    • waynefox.com
Re: Epson Premium Luster vs. Kodak Professional Lustre
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2015, 08:43:26 pm »

I'm pretty sure labs that fulfill for places like Smugmug and Photoshelter (probably mPix or WHCC) as well as other high volume labs are producing c-prints on Kodak or Fuji luster paper, not inkjet.
Logged

digitaldog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 20630
  • Andrew Rodney
    • http://www.digitaldog.net/
Re: Epson Premium Luster vs. Kodak Professional Lustre
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2015, 10:45:03 am »

I'm pretty sure labs that fulfill for places like Smugmug and Photoshelter (probably mPix or WHCC) as well as other high volume labs are producing c-prints on Kodak or Fuji luster paper, not inkjet.
The OP was pretty specific he's specifically talking ink jet. Kodak does make an inkjet paper. Unfortunately I can't answer his question even if I dig up some measurement data from a customer who had a profile made on that paper. I'd need the same printer output on Epson paper to provide a comment colorimetrically.
Logged
http://www.digitaldog.net/
Author "Color Management for Photographers".

Wayne Fox

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4237
    • waynefox.com
Re: Epson Premium Luster vs. Kodak Professional Lustre
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2015, 12:29:32 pm »

As I read the post, it appeared the user was asking about Kodak inkjet, but it was within the context of using an outside service such as smugmug for prints.  I was merely pointing out that these labs are not inkjet printing the vast majority of prints, so the Kodak paper they are referring to was not Kodak inkjet, but more likely Kodak Endura photographic paper.

Indeed that’s why the other labs he referred to that do use Epson Luster are more expensive.

As far as Kodak vs Epson, I haven’t used Kodak inkjet for quite some time, but when I did they two papers were pretty much indistinguishable from each other. 
Logged

digitaldog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 20630
  • Andrew Rodney
    • http://www.digitaldog.net/
Re: Epson Premium Luster vs. Kodak Professional Lustre
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2015, 12:49:32 pm »

As far as Kodak vs Epson, I haven’t used Kodak inkjet for quite some time, but when I did they two papers were pretty much indistinguishable from each other.
Quite possibly identical. IF someone wants to output a page of color patches (I'll supply), I'd be happy to measure both and provide the differences if any.
Logged
http://www.digitaldog.net/
Author "Color Management for Photographers".

srubey

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3
Re: Epson Premium Luster vs. Kodak Professional Lustre
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2015, 01:15:25 pm »

Thanks so much for your help, guys.  I must've misunderstood what I was looking at when I researched those labs...thanks for pointing that out. 
Logged

mstevensphoto

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 448
    • Denver Commercial Photographer
Re: Epson Premium Luster vs. Kodak Professional Lustre
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2015, 11:39:53 am »

I personally have switched from Moab Lasal Lustre to Kodak Pro Inkjet Lustre on my ipf8400 and aside from the thickness and back printing I'm pressed to tell the difference visually. I find the kodak to have great colors, lay flatter and be less expensive. it's a great paper IMHO
Logged

srubey

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3
Re: Epson Premium Luster vs. Kodak Professional Lustre
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2015, 02:38:04 pm »

That's a solid endorsement, considering I'm a huge fan of the Moab Lasal Luster paper.  Thanks for your input!
Logged

mstevensphoto

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 448
    • Denver Commercial Photographer
Re: Epson Premium Luster vs. Kodak Professional Lustre
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2015, 09:39:16 pm »

I have zero gripes about the lasal lustre EXCEPT that it's not avail in a 10" roll. I bought a 10" roll of the kodak because I had to do a lot of smalls and didn't want to trim from a master sheet. that went so well I tried the bigger rolls. I've switched entirely now. still zero complaints about the lasal but the kodak is waaay less expensive.
Logged

Miles

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 143
Re: Epson Premium Luster vs. Kodak Professional Lustre
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2015, 09:35:41 am »

I've used Kodak Professional Luster in certain applications for years and have been a little surprised that it hardly ever gets mentioned in this forum.  If you are looking for this type of paper, the print quality and price is hard to beat.  It is a very white paper. I don't know if it has any optical brighteners added so you may want to check that out.
Logged

Ernst Dinkla

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4005
Re: Epson Premium Luster vs. Kodak Professional Lustre
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2015, 02:27:45 pm »

I personally have switched from Moab Lasal Lustre to Kodak Pro Inkjet Lustre on my ipf8400 and aside from the thickness and back printing I'm pressed to tell the difference visually. I find the kodak to have great colors, lay flatter and be less expensive. it's a great paper IMHO

The Kodak Pro Inkjet Lustre and the Moab Lasal Exhibition Luster share the same paper white spectral reflection despite their different weights. As far as I can judge they both come from the Felix Schoeller stable, several FS papers  in the RC category have the same spectral plot. The Epson papers differ though on the spectral plot. BMG that distributes the Kodak inkjet media these days (and HP inkjet media) borrowed several qualities from FS and Innovaart. Felix Schoeller is more often a source of inkjet media for other brands.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
December 2014 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots
Logged

Wayne Fox

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4237
    • waynefox.com
Re: Epson Premium Luster vs. Kodak Professional Lustre
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2015, 03:59:08 pm »

The Epson papers differ though on the spectral plot.
Just curious as to the conclusion one might draw from this.  the epson paper seems to not show a “spike” like the others.  Is this  from Lower OBA or just from the base characteristics of the paper and how it’s made?
Logged

Ernst Dinkla

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4005
Re: Epson Premium Luster vs. Kodak Professional Lustre
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2015, 04:35:43 am »

Wayne,

I added some OBA RC paper white plots here to show where the Epson roughly fits. The red lines are off the Epson, I would estimate the OBA content in the paper base as being equal to the blue lines Mitsubishi paper base but there is less OBA content in the Epson inkjet coating where the Mitsubishi has a maximal content of OBA in the inkjet coating. The Lab b figures are for Epson Luster -2.9 and for Mitsubishi Lustre -9.8. The plot shows the paper base peak of the Mitsubishi as higher than that of the Epson (stipple lines) but in measuring the back side I will still measure some OBA influence of the inkjet coating too, so I estimate the paper base is very similar. There are a lot of Mitsubishi papers sold with other brand names.

The green lines Moab Lasal Exhibition Luster has less OBA content in the inkjet coating than the Mitsubishi paper has but the paper base has more OBA than the Mitsubishi paper. Lab b -7.4 measured at the front, white mounting board underneath.

All mentioned above have additional non-OBA whitening agents added in their composition. The yellow lines Premier Photoprem etc paper has way less of them though and relies on the OBA for its not so high score in total reflection. Lab 91.9 2.1 -11.4.  I expect it has the same OBA content the Mitsubishi has but in total does not score as high due to the lack of other whitening agents. So while the Lab b -11.4 is the highest here the OBA content will be the same as that of the Mitsubishi with b -9.8. Needless to say that when the OBA has degraded there is little left to reflect light. I can not say much about the OBA location in that paper, it is a dual sided coated paper. The infamous Hahnemühle Baryta FB 350 grams shares a similar lack of additional normal whitening agents. Both will have more issues with changing light conditions "metamerism" too next to the OBA fading issues.

Any OBA content paper will get a shifted paper white in time. How long it takes and how severe depends on the quality, quantity, of the OBAs and where they are located in the paper construction. As Aardenburg-Imaging already showed storing prints in the dark after exposing to light does not improve the longevity, the damage builds up. The lack of other whitening agents in a paper has already an impact on the white reflection in day one.


Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
December 2014 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots

Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up