Paris attacks in perspective

[tom b]

The partition, India and Pakistan.

"In the riots which preceded the partition in the Punjab region, between 200,000 and 500,000 people were killed in the retributive genocide between the religions. UNHCR estimates 14 million Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims were displaced during the partition; it was the largest mass migration in human history".

We must get the "Paris attacks" in perspective.

Cheers,

[Jimbo57]

Yes - we British do not have a great record when it comes down to attempting to solve problems by partitioning countries.

Ireland, India and Palestine are the obvious examples.

[john beardsworth]

The partition, India and Pakistan.

"In the riots which preceded the partition in the Punjab region, between 200,000 and 500,000 people were killed in the retributive genocide between the religions. UNHCR estimates 14 million Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims were displaced during the partition; it was the largest mass migration in human history".

We must get the "Paris attacks" in perspective.

Cheers,

Only 130 people were murdered in Paris? So what, in perspective? Is that what you're saying? If not, you're very close to doing so.....

You can make valid and interesting points about the chaos of Indian Partition, or many other tragedies, without such an odious and equally-irrelevant comparison with Paris.

[Diego Pigozzo]

We must get the "Paris attacks" in perspective.

Does this means we should care more about "non-western" deads or that we should care less about western deads?

[Tony Jay]

I can't see what the perspective is that we should glean from the OP.
Is it merely a numbers game?

As far as I am concerned comparing what happened in the Indian subcontinent 60-70 years ago with a terrorist attack in Paris a few days ago is meaningless.
Neither the overall landscape of world affairs then and now nor the political motives leading to the events then and now have any real basis for comparison.

If there is any real basis for comparison then it should be spelt out - the fact that both were awful events with lots of deaths does not count.

Tony Jay

[stamper]

I don't see any connection. An ill judged thread.

[Alan Klein]

Most people don't know what or where the Punjab is.  Of course, trying to downplay the horror of Paris by comparing numbers is a little odious.  It's all pretty sickening.

[amolitor]

I don't think anyone is trying to downplay Paris.

There are plenty of people on this earth trying to up-play it, however, for a wide variety of reasons.

Paris is a reminder, uncomfortably close to home, uncomfortably western, of how unpleasant people can be to one another. Will it be of great historical weight? Only if it serves successfully as a point upon which the West can be whipped into a frenzy of poor decisions. Was it terrible and incomprehensible for those directly affected, for those involved, for those who lost loved ones? Of course it was.

[Alan Klein]

What happened in the Punjab won't effect is here in the US.  However,  what ISIS did in Paris will continue to happen.   So discussing what we should do or not do is certainly important and timely.

[tom b]

One million dead in the Iraq Iranian war. Nobody gives a damn, fought using French and American weapons, shame!

Cheers,

[john beardsworth]

One million dead in the Iraq Iranian war. Nobody gives a damn, fought using French and American weapons, shame!

Cheers,

Sorry, but it's you who should feel shame for your initial misjudged post. Why not just say you were drunk instead of digging your hole deeper? Other bad things happened in history, sure. That doesn't mean Paris needs to be put "in perspective" against them in the crass way that you accomplished.

Now you introduce another irrelevant comparison! Don't let facts get in your way, but just who exactly supplied Iraq's tanks, APCs, air defences... and trained its army? French-made T55s and T62s, eh? Iraq had a handful of Mirages but had been a Soviet ally for 20+ years up to that period, and Iran had turned against the Satans in the West. That war was nowt to do with us. So stop beating yourself up, mate, you'll be blaming the West for the Mongols next. Billions of cuddly dinosaurs died, too. Wow, puts "Paris attacks" in perspective, eh?

[Diego Pigozzo]

One million dead in the Iraq Iranian war. Nobody gives a damn, fought using French and American weapons, shame!

Cheers,

I still don't understand if this means we should care more about "non-western" deads or that we should care less about western deads.

[stamper]

One million dead in the Iraq Iranian war. Nobody gives a damn, fought using French and American weapons, shame!

Cheers,

How many more conflicts are you going to dredge up? 

[tom b]

Hey, 130 persons died in Paris. Three thousand died in New York during 911.

One million plus muslims died in the Iraq/Iran war.
Half a million muslims plus died in Indonesia due to the cold war.
One million plus muslims/hindus died due the partition of India.

Paris is a tragedy, please don't forget history.

Cheers,

[Diego Pigozzo]

Hey, 130 persons died in Paris. Three thousand died in New York during 911.

One million plus muslims died in the Iraq/Iran war.
Half a million muslims plus died in Indonesia due to the cold war.
One million plus muslims/hindus died due the partition of India.

Paris is a tragedy, please don't forget history.

Cheers,

Again, I still don't understand if this means we should care more about "non-western" deads or that we should care less about western deads.

[john beardsworth]

Hey, 130 persons died in Paris. Three thousand died in New York during 911.

One million plus muslims died in the Iraq/Iran war.
Half a million muslims plus died in Indonesia due to the cold war.
One million plus muslims/hindus died due the partition of India.

Paris is a tragedy, please don't forget history.

Cheers,

Well, it seems your grasp on it is as lame as your comparisons are obnoxious - and ridiculous.

Hey, next time you meet an Aborigine, just tell him to put "in perspective" the decimation of his people in the settlement of Australia. Get over it, mate, in S America the Spanish wiped out 50 or more times as many people and their culture was far more developed than anything in pre-colonial Australia. Good luck.

[stamper]

Hey, 130 persons died in Paris. Three thousand died in New York during 911.

One million plus muslims died in the Iraq/Iran war.
Half a million muslims plus died in Indonesia due to the cold war.
One million plus muslims/hindus died due the partition of India.

Paris is a tragedy, please don't forget history.

Cheers,

Will you be paying the proposed 12 dollars a year to continue posting these kind of comments? Is this you farewell contribution to the forum?

[kers]

Maybe more related to the 130 people that got killed in Paris is the ongoing bombardment on the territory of IS in Syria.

The French, Americans, British, Dutch ,Russia etc bombs kill a lot of people, al put away as terrorists, almost called to be not human. As a reaction of the paris attacks these bombings are intensified.
As we know even ‘smart bombs’ tend to kill the wrong people, giving rise to feelings of revenge and hate.  ( as often - no side has a benefit in counting these victims)
In Dutch newspapers these reactions are questioned to be increasing the conflict rather than solving it.

I would like to see a different, less violent approach to this conflict, that would include isolating IS; making sure IS cannot buy weapons and goods nor sell oil; creating large save havens in Syria for people that want to escape this terrible war and can live in peace, while building a new society.

Also i would like to see more support for countries with good governments like Tunisia.
Tunisia is the only country were the Arabic Spring led to a stable democracy.
In the case of Tunisia for instance one attack on a resort ( el Qaida/IS) was enough to diminish most of the tourist-industry of the country, effectively trying to stabilize this country.
We better put some of the money we spend on weapons into helping these countries that want to do right instead of only destroying people and goods while feeding feelings of hatred.

[Paulo Bizarro]

The partition, India and Pakistan.

"In the riots which preceded the partition in the Punjab region, between 200,000 and 500,000 people were killed in the retributive genocide between the religions. UNHCR estimates 14 million Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims were displaced during the partition; it was the largest mass migration in human history".

We must get the "Paris attacks" in perspective.

Cheers,

What perspective? From wide angle or telephoto lens?

1 dead is a tragedy, 130 are not statistics...

I could also say that after the 1974 revolution in Portugal and the independence of former African colonies, Portugal had to receive about 500,000 people returning from those countries. We were a country in turmoil at the time, but we received them. I could also perspectivate that compared to 500,000 coming to one country, 200,000 refugees coming into Europe in nothing... that does not diminish their suffering, or put it in perspective.

Do yourself a favour, go to Paris and talk some perspective into the victim's families...

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

It looks like several things got lost, in the irrelevant perspective of mere numbers.

1. The latest Paris attack was a (symbolic) attack on Western society as a whole as a product of Enlightenment. Free thought is an abhorrence in the eyes of dogmatic/brainwashed/misguided loons, and France is in their eyes the symbol/source of that freedom. This attack was the first in what they hope to be a string of attacks meant to destabilize "the West". It is also an a-symmetric war tactic to divert the attention from their military losses in the Iraq/Syria region.

2. IS is a direct product of the War in Iraq. The IS leadership is formed by former top ranking Iraqi military and political leadership, removed from the elite positions they got as Arab Socialist Ba'ath party members under Saddam Hussein, and who were marginalized under the transition leadership of the US diplomat Paul Bremer who also led the De-Ba'athification of the Iraqi civil service) as the leader of the Coalition Provisional Authority. They went from their high elite status and well paid positions to nothing, and had no other option than to leave the country and they took the opportunity to create a state of their own, where they could proclaim their (in Iraq a minority) Sunni Arab dominated faction. Being well educated and trained in running a dictatorship, it was a relatively small step for them.

Cheers,
Bart