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Author Topic: Tibet Photography and practicalities  (Read 2184 times)

Petrus

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Tibet Photography and practicalities
« on: November 22, 2015, 04:52:10 am »

I though I would write some practical details about my trip to Eastern Tibet, as the essay was more about the feelings, impressions and politics, not practical photographic or logistical matters. The original thread has veered off a bit, so I just start a new one.

The gear I used was a Fujifilm X-Pro1 with 14, 35 and 55-200mm lenses, and Fujifilm X100s with the fixed 23mm lens as a backup. I honestly believe part of the reason I was so well received everywhere were the “old” and unthreatening cameras I used. An old man with old camera is not a threat to anyone, rather something to sympathize with. My camera bag was a ThinTank Retrospective 7, which also is a simple shoulder bag and looks like it was made from an old burlap sack. On the next trip, hopefully this coming summer, I’ll be taking two X-T1 bodies, not sure which lenses yet. Zooms are practical, but a set of primes somehow more inspirational. We’ll see.

Like I already wrote in the other thread it seems that people mistakenly think the whole Tibet requires permits, fixed schedules and guides. This is not true, the whole Eastern Tibet outside the Tibetan Autonomous Region (TAR) is open just like most of China. There are a few caveats, though.

Firstly: the area is a bit sensitive, so when applying for a visa it is best not to mention those areas in the application, but list “safe” cities where most tourists go. After you get inside the country, you can travel as you please.

Secondly: while it is legal and largely possible to travel there using public transportation, practically nobody speaks English even at the largest tourist attractions. There simply are not enough foreign tourists to make it necessary. 99% of tourists are Chinese, where there are any. So getting bus tickets etc. is complicated and frustrating unless you speak local Tibetan dialect or Chinese. Travel takes a long time and facilities are sometimes very basic (common toilets without partition walls, etc.). As there are some counties which are closed to foreigners, bus operators routinely refuse to sell tickets to westerners even to places which are not closed, because they do not want to be harassed, and they can not even exactly know which places are closed and which are not. Nobody really knows, as it is a somewhat sensitive matter which is rather swept under a rug than announced officially. Officials are never going to announce that some area is so badly out of control that tourists are banned. They are just asked to leave, and getting there is made difficult or impossible.

This means that while a truly adventurous person could travel independently and cheaply (and somewhat uncomfortably), a financially more comfortable person, like we here mostly are, can hire an interpreter/guide, driver and a Land Cruiser to take care of the logistics. This makes it possible to visit also the sites which are outside the bus networks, and makes things vastly speedier and easier in general (if one wants that).

The total cost for a car, driver and Tibetan guide for my 16 day trip, including everything except food was 34400 RMb, which came to 4295€ at the 2013 exchange rates (around $5200 I quess). That was for one person, with 2, 3 or 4 people sharing the car the costs would have dropped dramatically, of course. Original plan was to have 4 people in the group, but they had to cancel, so I just bit the bullet, dug deeper in my back pocket, and it was worth every penny.

Next summer we are planning to redo the trip with 10 people, longer, improved 24 day version this time, with more remote countryside and more time at the huge Buddhist Institutes (tour agencies think we are crazy, as “there is nothing to see”…). Most groups stop at Yarchen Gar, for example, only for an hour or so and take a few shots from across the river, never even entering the encampment. My guide had visited the place three times previously and had never crossed the river! I found the place fascinating. I digress, the cost per person is likely to be around 2300€/$2500 for 24 days, this time including also food, for practical reasons. This is the land cost, naturally. We will have 3 Land Cruisers with drivers and 2 native Tibetan guides, one female to make nunnery visits easier.

So if the story and pictures has piqued somebody’s interests, go there! It is not impossible or hugely costly with a small group of friends or family. I was lucky to be able to visit Lhasa in 1985 when there were no permits asked and we could come and go as we pleased with other pilgrims (we were actually given alms at the Jokhang temple). After that I have been there twice with wife and family in -04 and -07, and the city has metamorphosed from Tibetan into contemporary Chinese, and grown tenfold. Luckily the old Tibet still exists in Amdo and Kham.

Petrus
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Ray

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Re: Tibet Photography and practicalities
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2015, 11:25:16 am »

Like I already wrote in the other thread it seems that people mistakenly think the whole Tibet requires permits, fixed schedules and guides. This is not true, the whole Eastern Tibet outside the Tibetan Autonomous Region (TAR) is open just like most of China. There are a few caveats, though.

Petrus

Hi Petrus,

Isn't the Tibetan Autonomous Region the area that most people associate with Tibet? Isn't that the area which includes the famous Potala Palace in Lhasa, which used to be the residence of the Dalai Lama before he left the country? Isn't it also the area which includes the high plateau of mountains, valleys and lakes, which most people associate with Tibet, and which also includes part of Mount Everest?

When I was in Kathmandu in April 2011, I heard that a popular trip was to travel overland to Lhasa by 4-wheel drive, and fly back to Kathmandu, and that getting a permit was relatively easy. Since I'd never been to Tibet before, I thought I'd take that opportunity, so searched for a local travel agent in Kathmandu to arrange my trip. Alas! I was told that the Chinese had stopped issuing permits for the time being, and that this this was the sort of thing they often did whenever there's a bit of insurrection.

Some time later, back in Australia, I did a search on the internet to find out the best way of getting a permit to travel to Tibet from Nepal, so that the next time I visited Nepal I could include a trip to Tibet.

I was amazed to read that permits for overland trips would only be issued for groups of 4 or more people who must all be of the same nationality. They've probably now relaxed those rules, but I found them very discouraging.

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Petrus

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Re: Tibet Photography and practicalities
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2015, 12:16:40 pm »

Hi Petrus,

Isn't the Tibetan Autonomous Region the area that most people associate with Tibet? Isn't that the area which includes the famous Potala Palace in Lhasa, which used to be the residence of the Dalai Lama before he left the country? Isn't it also the area which includes the high plateau of mountains, valleys and lakes, which most people associate with Tibet, and which also includes part of Mount Everest?

It is true that many/most people associate Tibet only with Tibetan Autonomous Region, and I think the Chinese like this also. But the fact is that TAR comprises only half of original Tibet, and even now less than half of the Tibetan people live in TAR, about 55% live in Amdo and Kham where I visited. The border between Tibet and China was never officially drawn, as on both sides local warlords actually held the power, not distant capitals. Basically the old Tibet is the high level plain at above 2500m, which reaches actually quite close to Chengdu and includes Zining/Xining. TAR is mostly even higher, and for that reason the inhabited area includes only the southern part of TAR, as the northern regions are too high and cold and desert like to support even nomads*.

As the capital of Tibet and the seat of the Dalai Lama was Lhasa, it naturally draws most tourists. Many most important monasteries on the other hand are in Amdo and Kham. As the land is bit lower and more fertile, the nomad heartland is in Kham and southern Amdo, not TAR. There are also a couple of high mountain areas with 5-10 day trek possibilities along the pilgrimage routes.

Permit rules for TAR have been relaxed a bit lately, now there are no same nationality requirements, and even a group of one is possible. The problem with entrance from Nepal is that those trips are done on group visa, which can not be extended and the group must exit China together. So unless one wants to return back to Nepal also it is more convent to visit China, Tibet and Nepal in that order. If doing a Nepal-Tibet-Nepal trip, it is much safer to fly to Lhasa and take car back via Everest base camp, unless one is well acclimatized from an high altitude trek, as people have actually died from getting from Kathmandu (about 1500m) to EBC (5300m) in couple of days.

*) I was at the northern edge of the Tibetan plateau exploring Kun Lun mountains in 2003. Totally empty, even the roads found on maps are not there, and absolutely no villages. Some pictures here: https://picasaweb.google.com/109958612223411682295/UlughMuztaghIIFirstAscentExpedition2003
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Ray

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Re: Tibet Photography and practicalities
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2015, 10:49:51 pm »

Thanks for the updated information, Petrus. I see your point. The desolate, higher regions might not be as photographically interesting as the more populated regions to the east. I find this is the case in Nepal and prefer the regions with forests, local villages, snowy peaks in the background, and the occasional Langur monkey swinging on branches in the foreground.  ;)
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Petrus

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Re: Tibet Photography and practicalities
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2015, 12:28:54 am »

Thanks for the updated information, Petrus. I see your point. The desolate, higher regions might not be as photographically interesting as the more populated regions to the east. I find this is the case in Nepal and prefer the regions with forests, local villages, snowy peaks in the background, and the occasional Langur monkey swinging on branches in the foreground.  ;)

The landscapes up north can be quite breathtaking, but that is all there is, plus wild ass and chiru. All driving is off-road, and even with our 6x6 trucks were stuck and frozen solid sometimes up to 6 days. As far as I know only one NG expedition has been able to cross the region on foot, and one Swedish cyclist by bike, which took him something like 2 months.
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hsteeves

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Re: Tibet Photography and practicalities
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2015, 02:45:54 am »

Your trip next summer - will this be as a workshop or something along that line?
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Petrus

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Re: Tibet Photography and practicalities
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2015, 03:31:39 am »

Your trip next summer - will this be as a workshop or something along that line?

No, just that I want to go again, with my wife, and a bunch of our friends and one daughter want to see the place also (we have already travelled on self-arranged trips to Nepal, Vietnam, China and Tibet/TAR with most of them). We are trying to keep the numbers between 8 and 10 for practical reasons, even though even more people have been interested. I possibly should not be saying this, but by arranging these trips by yourself you save at least 75% compared to going on a workshop where you have to pay for the upkeep of teachers + organizer profits. An 12 day Repkong only workshop was offered at the same time for almost $6000, my whole 20 day China trip cost less, and I was alone. A 24 day workshop like this would possibly cost over $10000.
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mecrox

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Re: Tibet Photography and practicalities
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2015, 09:16:38 am »

Thanks for this, Petrus. if I ever do go to Tibet it will be with the intention of visiting a remote place in East Kham I've long wanted to see, and you've just explained the best way to manage it.
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