Samsung NX1 the way of the dodo?

[Paulo Bizarro]

See here:

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/8930601010/samsung-nx1-discontinued-in-europe-rumors-say-yes

At least in Germany, it has been confirmed that Samsung is discontinuing the NX1. In 2010, Samsung was saying that they wanted to dominate the mirrorless segment, right... not with this kind of strategy they won't.

[Petrus]

Markets are strange. NX1 seems to be an excellent camera, possibly the best APS-C sensor camera there is. But: not enough lenses, and wrong logo. Seems that they though it would be (rightly) a big seller, but market just ignored it, and now they are saying "we are not playing with you, so there!" They even designed and made the 28 Mpix sensor themselves...

[BernardLanguillier]

Markets are strange. NX1 seems to be an excellent camera, possibly the best APS-C sensor camera there is. But: not enough lenses, and wrong logo. Seems that they though it would be (rightly) a big seller, but market just ignored it, and now they are saying "we are not playing with you, so there!" They even designed and made the 28 Mpix sensor themselves...

I am not sure it means the end of the NX line.

I hear they are selling reasonably well in the markets that really matter nowadays, meaning China and India. Those are also markets where the Samsung image is great as a technology brand.

Cheers,
Bernard

[peterottaway]

Well just like Sony, Samsung has too many areas that were losing money or barely breaking even. Something had to give to give the company a decent future.

You can't get by on just stealing Apples IP and design when the Chinese can do it cheaper.

[eronald]

Well just like Sony, Samsung has too many areas that were losing money or barely breaking even. Something had to give to give the company a decent future.

You can't get by on just stealing Apples IP and design when the Chinese can do it cheaper.

What Apple really invented is the concept of "IP" on user interface after they stole theirs from Xerox

Edmund

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

At least in Germany, it has been confirmed that Samsung is discontinuing the NX1. In 2010, Samsung was saying that they wanted to dominate the mirrorless segment, right... not with this kind of strategy they won't.

In the Netherlands Samsung has confirmed that they stop selling all still and video cameras and accessories.

Cheers,
Bart

[MarkL]

The releases do seem to make a point of saying it is a local decision based on local market conditions, I suspect this means Asia etc. will continue. The camera business isn't exactly a great place to be right now anyway and I wouldn't blame them for cutting their losses knowing they don't have Sony's commitment to unseating CaNikon both of which aren't exactly killing it selling cameras.

It is a real shame, I was hoping Samsung was going to join Sony in really going after Canon and Nikon though aggressive innovation. Japanese companies often seem to behave as if a product's headline specs will make it sell ignoring brand positioning and the environment they are entering. The higher end of photography has been dominated for decades by two companies and most people are deeply invested in systems and where even third party lenses are still viewed with suspicion; thinking photogs would throw caution to the wind and invest in a radical camera like this where just a few lenses existed and resale is dubious was foolhardly. An long term strategy for entering the market was needed and willingness to invest heavily in building a system - from a reputation standpoint they had even more against them than Sony (who at least had motion picture and their A slrs) to establish themselves as a serious camera company.

The NX1 was one heck of a camera on paper and may just have been ahead on it's time and from the wrong company.

Well just like Sony, Samsung has too many areas that were losing money or barely breaking even. Something had to give to give the company a decent future.

I've not looked at their financials but dominating the phone, tablet and especially TV segment I don't think they were in any danger of not having a decent future.

[BJL]

What Apple really invented is the concept of "IP" on user interface after they stole theirs from Xerox

Edmond, please stop rehashing that long-debunked myth.  The short version is that Apple was invited to visit the Xerox research lab, paid Xerox for use of some ideas that Xerox itself was for whatever reason not succeeding at commercializing, and Apple then added to and modified substantially what it got from Xerox to produce a product that could succeed commercially where the Xerox Alto computer could not.  And by the way, the idea of the mouse was far older: it was invented in 1964 by Doug Engelbart at Stanford Research Institute, and then improved by researchers at Xerox.  So I suppose that anti-Xerox partisans would claim that the mouse was stolen by Xerox!

The long version can be found at numerous websites with a quick search on "Apple Xerox GUI".  It is worth reading several since, as always when Apple is involved, any one site is likely to have either a pro- or anti- Apple bias.

[BJL]

Reports are that Samsung is pulling completely out of the German and Netherlands ILC and video camera markets, which hints strongly at  a Europe-wide pullout.  I would not jump to the conclusion that is is abandoning those markets globally.  For example, Samsung also abandoned the laptop computer market in Europe over a year ago, but is still offering new laptop models elsewhere.

It does however suggest that just having a sensor that is a bit ahead of the competition is far short of what it takes to establish a trusted and commercially successful interchangeable lens camera system – success with systems that rely on integrating a wide range of technologies and substantial lens investments are a long game, not a sensor spec race.

[Hans Kruse]

I've not looked at their financials but dominating the phone, tablet and especially TV segment I don't think they were in any danger of not having a decent future.

Companies look at profitability by verticals and you can only fund a certain vertical for a short time from my experience. Maybe a couple of years, but then it need to look viable. If it is true that Samsung pulls out of the camera business (at least the NX1) then it may have to do with other financial issues like fierce competition in the mobile market where Samsung is being eaten alive by Apple at the top and the Chinese at the lower end.

[BernardLanguillier]

Companies look at profitability by verticals and you can only fund a certain vertical for a short time from my experience. Maybe a couple of years, but then it need to look viable. If it is true that Samsung pulls out of the camera business (at least the NX1) then it may have to do with other financial issues like fierce competition in the mobile market where Samsung is being eaten alive by Apple at the top and the Chinese at the lower end.

Companies also look more and more about market specifics.

It was obvious from day 1 that Samsung's best shot was in emerging markets where people value their brand and are less invested in other companies' lenses and are overall younger and therefore less emotionally connected with other brands (not to speak of other kinds of connections for many Western influencers).

I would therefore not confuse withdrawal from the overly conservative Europe with withdrawal from the camera market. It is for sure possible to be very successful without selling a single unit in Western countries and that can fund future innovation.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Hans Kruse]

Companies also look more and more about market specifics.

It was obvious from day 1 that Samsung's best shot was in emerging markets where people value their brand and are less invested in other companies' lenses and are overall older and therefore emotionally connected with other brands (not to speak of other kinds of connections for many influencers).

I would therefore not confuse withdrawal from the overly conservative Europe with withdrawal from the camera market. It is for sure possible to be very successful without selling a single unit in Western countries and that can fund future innovation.

Cheers,
Bernard

Well, yes, it is all speculation at this point in time. Time will tell as usual

[eronald]

Edmond, please stop rehashing that long-debunked myth.  The short version is that Apple was invited to visit the Xerox research lab, paid Xerox for use of some ideas that Xerox itself was for whatever reason not succeeding at commercializing, and Apple then added to and modified substantially what it got from Xerox to produce a product that could succeed commercially where the Xerox Alto computer could not.  And by the way, the idea of the mouse was far older: it was invented in 1964 by Doug Engelbart at Stanford Research Institute, and then improved by researchers at Xerox.  So I suppose that anti-Xerox partisans would claim that the mouse was stolen by Xerox!

The long version can be found at numerous websites with a quick search on "Apple Xerox GUI".  It is worth reading several since, as always when Apple is involved, any one site is likely to have either a pro- or anti- Apple bias.

You know, I think you're mostly right.
Here's an interesting rant on the current trend
https://www.fastcodesign.com/3053406/how-apple-is-giving-design-a-bad-name

[jduncan]

What Apple really invented is the concept of "IP" on user interface after they stole theirs from Xerox

Edmund

I know is tongue in cheek, but there are so many people that believe this, that I have to respond. Not because people that are fixed on some idea will change, but for the sake of the newbies . Apple did not stole the graphics interface from Xerox, they pay to see the labs and learn from them. It was a very good price as apple did not have access to source, only to look and get "inspired". It was pretty clear that Apple will then reimplement what they saw. Same goes for Microsoft and Sybase. Sybase was stupid and never recover, but still Microsoft did pay (and got the code). Xerox in the other hand, got good money from the deal. 

It's like ignorance never dies, regardless of how many data and evidence we present:

"Seve Jobs had his own reasons for visiting PARC. Apple bought access to the PARC by means of a stock deal that seemed lucrative to the Xerox managers on the East Coast: They might buy 100,000 Apple stocks for one million dollars. Holding this admission ticket in the hand, Steve Jobs, Apple’s president Mike Scott, Bill Atkinson, and a number of members of the developing team marched up. “I think mostly … what we got in that hour and a half was inspiration and just sort of basically a bolstering of our convictions that a more graphical way to do things would make this business computer more accessible.”

People just gets more convinced when all the information points in the other direction :
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2010/07/11/how_facts_backfire/

Please notice that I don't believe that you don't know that Apple did not stole from Xerox, but it's like a Md doing jokes about vaccines in a country full of vaccine deniers. It does not work.

Some sources:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/technology/2011/10/steve-jobs-xerox-parc.html
http://www.mac-history.net/computer-history/2012-03-22/apple-and-xerox-parc
 

[BJL]

I propose an updated title, since the news is now not specific to the NX1, but is (so far) specific to some European markets.

Samsung has announced in Germany, the UK and the Netherlands that it will stop marketing all its still and video cameras in those markets – much as it did with laptop computers in Europe last year. I have still not seen any sign that those product lines are being discontinued globally though.

And of course Samsung will still market its still and video cameras that are also internet connected pocket computers and phones.  Beyond the declining sales of compact still cameras, how many people are still buying consumer-level video cameras?)

See here:

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/8930601010/samsung-nx1-discontinued-in-europe-rumors-say-yes

At least in Germany, it has been confirmed that Samsung is discontinuing the NX1. In 2010, Samsung was saying that they wanted to dominate the mirrorless segment, right... not with this kind of strategy they won't.

[armand]

Rumor has it that Nikon bought the Samsung NX1 tech.

[cchann]

What do Samsung expect. In my market, they never effectively marketed the thing. My local store had one in for show and then never heard anything again from Samsung.

[Paulo Bizarro]

Rumor has it that Nikon bought the Samsung NX1 tech.

If this is true, then the reason about Samsung exiting the camera business may become clearer. For further information, the relevant link:

http://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/hot-rumor-nikon-bought-samsung-nx-mirrorless-tech/

Some interesting bits:

"Nikon will use Samsung NX resources to launch their professional mirrorless system. It is yet unclear if Nikon will keep the NX mount or use an own new mount. That info is not accessible to our Samsung sources (it’s a decision that will be taken by Nikon). The “resources” we are talking about also include Samsung sensor tech, video tech and processor engine."

Professional mirrorless from Nikon sure sounds interesting. But can the NX mount be "increased" to FF? Even though for many applications, APSC is plenty enough.

Furthermore, it seems also clear that Nikon wants to vary its sensor sourcing, as they will own Samsung's sensor tech.

[BJL]

If this is true, then the reason about Samsung exiting the camera business may become clearer. For further information, the relevant link:

http://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/hot-rumor-nikon-bought-samsung-nx-mirrorless-tech/
. . .

Furthermore, it seems also clear that Nikon wants to vary its sensor sourcing, as they will own Samsung's sensor tech.

This seems like implausible wishful thinking.  It seems that the reflexive response of some rumor sites and forum posters to every bit of camera news or rumor, good or bad, is "Great! This means more, better FULL FRAME stuff is coming!"

 I severely doubt that Samsung is selling all its sensor tech to Nikon, for several reasons:
- Samsung is the world's #1 or #2 camera maker, through its mobile phones.
- Sensor technology is embedded into other semi-conductor development and production activities, and again Samsung uses that technology in lots of other products.

[AlterEgo]

may be Nikon is simply buying APS-C 28mp BSI sensors from Samsung (not fab or tech - but sensors, bulk) for its "D400" (if it ever comes)