Cambo Actar 24 mm

[RomanN.]

hi,
Cambo Actar 24 mm is a new lens from Cambo special made for their Cambo Actus cameras.
It should allow 12 mm movements on 35 mm full frame, same as the Canon ts-e II 24 mm and others.
Did anybody know what lens it is and who made this lens? Cambo dont make lenses only cameras.
The price of the lens is simply to cheap that Rodenstock or schneider could make the lens.
The lens is new so it would be very exsiting when somobody could test it.
If the lens perfom similar to canon ts-e 24 mm II the Cambo Actus will become very interestig option, I suppose.
roman

[gebseng]

It could be the rehoused Samyang 24mm f/3.5 ED AS UMC Tilt-Shift, which also has "sixteen elements arranged in eleven groups" according to Samyangs website (http://www.syopt.com/en/product/photo-lenses-24mm-F3.5-ED-AS-UMC-TILT-SHIFT-lens.php).

[Steve Hendrix]

hi,
Cambo Actar 24 mm is a new lens from Cambo special made for their Cambo Actus cameras.
It should allow 12 mm movements on 35 mm full frame, same as the Canon ts-e II 24 mm and others.
Did anybody know what lens it is and who made this lens? Cambo dont make lenses only cameras.
The price of the lens is simply to cheap that Rodenstock or schneider could make the lens.
The lens is new so it would be very exsiting when somobody could test it.
If the lens perfom similar to canon ts-e 24 mm II the Cambo Actus will become very interestig option, I suppose.
roman

We have had a prototype of this lens in house - and also showed it in New York at PhotoPlus Expo a few weeks back. The initial impressions are that it comes close to that Canon lens, I don't know that I can say it matches it. But the price is very reasonable - $1,450. And it then becomes a more versatile option with the Cambo.

As you know, wide options for the Cambo, and other small or medium format view cameras, are very limited with the mirrored DSLR bodies, and even to a degree with the mirrorless bodies. That is an advantage for using a medium format digital back with an Actus DB, overall lens options are restricted, but the wide options are superior. This is one solution for the mirrored/mirrorless bodies.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration

[Steve Hendrix]

Almost forgot, we have a bit more information on the Actar Lens:

https://captureintegration.com/cambo-actus-actar-24-lens/

We will have inventory next week, but I've already received orders. And we will have it in our rental inventory as well.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration

[gebseng]

Sounds very interesting! I did not find information about geometric distortion yet. The Canon 24mm TS-E has 0.9%, which is hardly noticeable IMO and almost on par with the SK 24mm Apo-Digitar. The Samyang 24mm T-S has around 2.3% as far as I remember, which definitely needs correction in post, at least when used for architecture (but the Rodenstocks are in the same ballpark)

[RomanN.]

I really hope that it is not the Samyang, becouse this is a poor lens. If the Cambo lens would deliver comparable optical quality with the Canon 24 mm II this would be an extremly big point for Cambo.
Cambo seems to go different way after Schneider stopped to produce this kind of lenses and Roddies are extremly expensive. Very interesting, maybe Arca and Alpa will move in similar way in future?

[Steve Hendrix]

I really hope that it is not the Samyang, becouse this is a poor lens. If the Cambo lens would deliver comparable optical quality with the Canon 24 mm II this would be an extremly big point for Cambo.
Cambo seems to go different way after Schneider stopped to produce this kind of lenses and Roddies are extremly expensive. Very interesting, maybe Arca and Alpa will move in similar way in future?

I think it is important to have an accurate expectation for new products. No one, Cambo included, is making a case that this is a groundbreaking lens. And to my earlier statement, in my testing I have found it to be close, but not quite a match for the Canon 24TS II, which is quite a good lens. The point of the Actar is that here is a lens in the 24mm focal length, that is a good lens, and that mounted on the Aptus, gives you expanded movement capability vs a TS lens mounted to a fixed plane camera. And at a very reasonable price point (almost $500 less than the Canon).

We'll have some samples to share after we receive our first shipment.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

It has 16 lenses in 11 groups precisely like the Samyang lens. For that it does not need to be a Samyang based design.

Best regards
Erik

I really hope that it is not the Samyang, becouse this is a poor lens. If the Cambo lens would deliver comparable optical quality with the Canon 24 mm II this would be an extremly big point for Cambo.
Cambo seems to go different way after Schneider stopped to produce this kind of lenses and Roddies are extremly expensive. Very interesting, maybe Arca and Alpa will move in similar way in future?

[torger]

It's a narrow segment they're aiming at. I don't think users that get tech cameras generally want budget stuff that doesn't perform that well. It is aimed at the 135 users though, not digital back users so budget alternatives are certainly not uninteresting. But if it's not performing as good as the TS-E II I don't think it will be very popular.

Making retrofocus wide angle lenses with great performance is not an easy thing, especially if you want reasonable price and weight. $1500 is a low cost for this type of lens so it's not reasonable to have high expectations. To be able to have this low price I find it quite likely that it actually is a repackaged Samyang.

My guess is that this lens is a move to as quickly as possible solve a desperate need (lack of wide angle!), rather than a long term strategy.

[Ken R]

It's a narrow segment they're aiming at. I don't think users that get tech cameras generally want budget stuff that doesn't perform that well. It is aimed at the 135 users though, not digital back users so budget alternatives are certainly not uninteresting. But if it's not performing as good as the TS-E II I don't think it will be very popular.

Making retrofocus wide angle lenses with great performance is not an easy thing, especially if you want reasonable price and weight. $1500 is a low cost for this type of lens so it's not reasonable to have high expectations. To be able to have this low price I find it quite likely that it actually is a repackaged Samyang.

My guess is that this lens is a move to as quickly as possible solve a desperate need (lack of wide angle!), rather than a long term strategy.

Most likely a rehoused Samyang no doubt. Not a simple thing but far from designing and making a new lens.

The fact of the matter is that tech lenses and performance are not in the design consideration of medium format digital sensor design and manufacturing. Easier to make or adapt retrofocus wide angle lenses (designed for SLRs) so they fit tech camera platforms than make a tech lens friendly sensor.

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

I don't think that is the real issue. The real issue is a small market and lazy manufacturers.

Just as an example, Zeiss employs retrofocus designs for some lenses like the Otus 55/1.4. Not because it is needed but because it gives better results than the traditional double Gauss (AKA Planar) design. Also, they use floating elements (AKA variable airspace), aspherics and liberal amounts of SD-glass.

But, I guess that MF is a small market. Zeiss has opted out of MFD and so has Schneider. I guess Rodenstock is still in.

On the other hand, Samyang is producing a lot of high quality lenses and they do use advanced technologies like SD-glass and both hybrid an moulded aspherics. Their 135/2.0 is a good match for the Zeiss 135/2.0 APO and their 14/2.8 is pretty awesome, except the distortion.

Putting a decent lens group in a decent mechanical mount may not be a bad thing… Even if it comes from South Korea and not from Germany.

On the other hand, my experience is a bit that the Canon 24/3.5 TSE LII is not so great, and it seems that the Actar is a bit below that. There is a reason I bought the Canon 24/3.5 TSE and not the Samyang. Of course, my Canon 24/3.5 TSE LII may be a bad copy.

Best regards
Erik

Most likely a rehoused Samyang no doubt. Not a simple thing but far from designing and making a new lens.

The fact of the matter is that tech lenses and performance are not in the design consideration of medium format digital sensor design and manufacturing. Easier to make or adapt retrofocus wide angle lenses (designed for SLRs) so they fit tech camera platforms than make a tech lens friendly sensor.

[BobDavid]

Whether or not the Actar is manufactured by Samyang doesn't matter--at least to me. If Samyang employs the same optical formula as the 24 TS, removing the TS mechanism from the lens will, if anything, improve the performance. Let's just wait and see.

[alan_b]

I don't think that is the real issue. The real issue is a small market and lazy manufacturers.

Rather than lazy, I might call them risk-averse in a rapidly-evolving market.  I can't imagine it's cheap to develop a new high-performance lens for view/tech camera use.  It's also a small market, which means higher unit prices than a more mass-market item. All those traditional LF lens designs that are now problematic-to-obsolete with current sensors are a stark reminder of the shrinking life-span of lenses.  How many people would pay for a 24mm view camera lens if it's $10,000?

[Ken R]

Hi,

I don't think that is the real issue. The real issue is a small market and lazy manufacturers.

Just as an example, Zeiss employs retrofocus designs for some lenses like the Otus 55/1.4. Not because it is needed but because it gives better results than the traditional double Gauss (AKA Planar) design. Also, they use floating elements (AKA variable airspace), aspherics and liberal amounts of SD-glass.

But, I guess that MF is a small market. Zeiss has opted out of MFD and so has Schneider. I guess Rodenstock is still in.

On the other hand, Samyang is producing a lot of high quality lenses and they do use advanced technologies like SD-glass and both hybrid an moulded aspherics. Their 135/2.0 is a good match for the Zeiss 135/2.0 APO and their 14/2.8 is pretty awesome, except the distortion.

Putting a decent lens group in a decent mechanical mount may not be a bad thing… Even if it comes from South Korea and not from Germany.

On the other hand, my experience is a bit that the Canon 24/3.5 TSE LII is not so great, and it seems that the Actar is a bit below that. There is a reason I bought the Canon 24/3.5 TSE and not the Samyang. Of course, my Canon 24/3.5 TSE LII may be a bad copy.

Best regards
Erik

The Canon 24 TS-E II seems not to work well with the Sony A7RII. Works amazingly well with most digital backs though and the A7R 1. Don't know what is the issue with the A7RII but there is definitely one. People are looking into it.

[gebseng]

The Canon 24 TS-E II seems not to work well with the Sony A7RII. Works amazingly well with most digital backs though and the A7R 1. Don't know what is the issue with the A7RII but there is definitely one. People are looking into it.

Can you get more specific on that?

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

I have tried out my 24/3.5 TSE LII on a Canon 5DIII owned by my best friend. At that time it was brand new and never used. Performance was a bit disappointing, but pretty consistent with the test here on DPReview, so I decided I can live with it.

The areas I feel I objected to was lack of corner sharpness when shifted combined with some lateral chromatic aberration. Correcting for lateral chroma improved sharpness.

On the A7rII that has twice the amount of pixels I see similar problems but of course more visible.

I have been shooting a quite lot with the lens on my recent three weeks of trips and was satisfied with the results. It improves much if chromatic aberration is corrected on both Canon and Sony. I find it satisfactory except in corners when shifted.

Hans Kruse, a well known landscape photographer, has sold off his two Canon TSE lenses, a 17/4 and a 24/4 TSE L, as he found they were no better than the new Canon zooms he bought (16-35/4 and 24-70/2.8LII). When I tested my 24/3.5 TSE LII on my friends Canon 5DIII we compared with the 16-35/4L and I think the 16-35/4L performed a bit better in that comparison.

I have not seen a lot of TSE samples with full shift and tiny high contrast detail near corners.

Flare control may be an issue. I generally feel that my Sony 24-70/2.8ZA has a bit more "snap" with both lenses unshifted. MTF data on the unshifted 24/3.5 TSE is very good. With shifts, less so.

Anyway, when I looked at samples from the Samyang I found it to be below my expectations and below similar exposures with the TSE. But the DPReviews tests gave me some reservations about the 24/3.5 TSE, too.

Best regards
Erik

Can you get more specific on that?

[RomanN.]

I work now with canon TSE 17 and 24 mm II on Sony a7r II and before on Sony a7r and canon 5d II. The improve of resolution between 5dII and a7r was indeed a big step. The canon new shift lenses was great on 22 mln and need one step or more down on aperture to get good courner sharpness at max movement. I find out that mostly 13-16 is needet at max movements with 12 mm. the overall sharpness is afcourse better at ap 8-11 and i try to use it when the movents are not too big.
I had really strong problem with the canon shift lenses and the new sony a7r II , the problem was the stabilisation of the camera!
I solve it by using the stabilisation by giving the camera much wide lens number: so when i use 24 mm shift and give the camera the information that I use 16 mm lens. It is logical, becouse by using movements with a 24 mm lens you will use much bigger image circle that could be similar to use a 16-17 mm wide angle. Now the canon tse lenses perform in same way as on the older sony a7r.
I must say that the old 7r was not worse than the new version II. OK, I use mostly tripod and make architechture. For people who need more action the things will be different. I also use Zeiss Distagon PC 35 mm and Mamiya 645 50 mm shift lens on sony. Both lenses have not the sharpness and contrast of the canon, Zeiss is close to, mamiya miles away but deliver big movents- i wish mamiya would updated this lens some day.

[Chris D]

Hans Kruse, a well known landscape photographer, has sold off his two Canon TSE lenses, a 17/4 and a 24/4 TSE L, as he found they were no better than the new Canon zooms he bought (16-35/4 and 24-70/2.8LII). When I tested my 24/3.5 TSE LII on my friends Canon 5DIII we compared with the 16-35/4L and I think the 16-35/4L performed a bit better in that comparison.

I don't post often, but this really blows my mind!  I've been looking for lenses for to use with an a7r and an actus, and this isn't the first time the 16-35 f4 has been recommended as a replacement for the tse's. 

I hope the actar is a decent lens, but sounds like it's not going to be up to either the 24TS or 16-35...  Hope I'm wrong!

[kers]

I don't post often, but this really blows my mind!  I've been looking for lenses for to use with an a7r and an actus, and this isn't the first time the 16-35 f4 has been recommended as a replacement for the tse's. 
I hope the actar is a decent lens, but sounds like it's not going to be up to either the 24TS or 16-35...  Hope I'm wrong!

I think it has to do with if you really need the shifts/tilts or not- and/or how fast you want to work.
The zoom lenses maybe sharper in their sharpness zone when you use f8, but they cannot shift/tilt.
Zoom lenses have the advantage of getting the right crop; that may be more important for image quality.
Still i am sure that with a Canon TS 24mm lens using tilt and shift combined in the right way you have some advantage.. again depending on what you need.
In the case of landscape photographers at least tilt may give you more depth of field. But then 24mm @f8 (not to mention 17mm@F8) already has a lot of that.
And with TS lenses there is more room for making mistakes.

[torger]

One have to have reasonable expectations on the wide angles too, even the Rodenstock HR 32 falls off a little in sharpness when shifted. It's hard to make wide angles sharp. The TS-E II shift range is quite large in relation to the 135 diagonal, larger than what you get in many MFD tech cam combos.

It would be nice with yet another side-by-side wide-angle shoot-out again :-)

I'm sure the Rodies and even the older Digitars combined with larger sensors have quite some edge, but I don't know how large it is.