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Author Topic: Why Nobody Trusts Adobe  (Read 22346 times)

David Mantripp

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Re: Why Nobody Trusts Adobe
« Reply #60 on: November 29, 2015, 06:25:19 am »

Well, despite the ad hominen attacks on Thom Hogan, and people pretending they don't know who he is...    I just tried to remove Ps CS6 (perpetual) from my system.  So, I went to the Help menu, and selected DEACTIVATE.

I was then presented with a dialog telling me that "Signing out of Creative Cloud" would remove my access to PS CS6, PS CC 2015, Lr CC 2015  (no mention of other Creative Studio CS6 applications, note).

I did not ask to "Sign Out of CC", I asked to "Deactivate CS6" on this computer.

Oh, and then when I decided "screw it, I'll just deinstall Ps CS6", I was asked if I wanted to deinstall InDesign, Illustrator and Acrobat Pro as well.  No, Adobe, I don't.  Oh, and then I hit the infamous "SafariCloudHist" bug.

So, confusion reigns.  Mixed up dialogs, mixed up messages, no confidence in what will happen.  Do I trust Adobe ? I don't really have an answer to that, it isn't a relevant question.  But do I trust their installation / deinstallation / CC manager software ?  Do I ****.

So, apologists, off you go with the Ad Hominen attacks. Don't forget to point out that I'm a crap photographer, as well.
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Simon Garrett

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Re: Why Nobody Trusts Adobe
« Reply #61 on: November 29, 2015, 07:31:22 am »

So, apologists, off you go with the Ad Hominen attacks. Don't forget to point out that I'm a crap photographer, as well.

I think we should attack your manhood as well.   ;)

I don't "trust" Adobe (nor any corporate enterprise) to do more than honour their carefully-worded contracts with me.  Software products are especially complex, and software agreements are so careful worded that the provider is usually contractually obliged to do very little.  You have little or no redress if the software doesn't work or even if it trashes your computer or your photographs. 

Adobe software functions reasonably well compared to the industry average (not a very challenging target) but with some serious issues:
  • Bug fixing is slow.  Even major bugs usually wait until the next release (perhaps 3 or 4 months) and often longer.
  • Software management (downloading, installation/removal, subscription management) is poor, and not improving very fast.
  • The pace of innovation is slowing down.  LR and especially PS are mature products produced by mature teams, and the natural rate of innovation is going to decline.  In such cases, major innovation often comes from new companies. 
  • The slower pace of innovation is probably one reason why Adobe is so keen to move to a subscription model: to secure revenues from users for whom there is less and less incentive to upgrade.  The subscription model also gives Adobe less incentive to invest in innovation, and this can become a vicious circle.

You can trust a corporate most when they face strong competition.  Adobe doesn't.   
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digitaldog

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Re: Why Nobody Trusts Adobe
« Reply #62 on: November 29, 2015, 10:43:36 am »



Well, despite the ad hominen attacks on Thom Hogan, and people pretending they don't know who he is...    I just tried to remove Ps CS6 (perpetual) from my system.  So, I went to the Help menu, and selected DEACTIVATE.
The topic should be retitled 'why nobody trusts whiners people who don't RTFM'.


Quote
I did not ask to "Sign Out of CC", I asked to "Deactivate CS6" on this computer.
Doesn't matter, sign out then you can deactivate.
Quote
I was then presented with a dialog telling me that "Signing out of Creative Cloud" would remove my access to PS CS6, PS CC 2015, Lr CC 2015  (no mention of other Creative Studio CS6 applications, note).
Yes! Those products need for you to be signed in to use every X number of days, this is simply warning you of that possibility! Do you know how to sign back in?
Quote
So, confusion reigns
That much is clear.
As for uninstalling CS6 perpetual, piece of cake:
If you are removing Creative Suite software from you computer and installing it on another computer, you'll need to deactivate the software. Remember that you must first deactivate your software before you uninstall it on one computer and install it on another. Unistalling does not deactivate your Adobe software automatically.
Note: Lightroom does not have an activate/deactivate option.
To deactivate the software from your computer:

Make sure the computer that has the software installed is connected to the Internet.
Choose Help > Deactivate in the product you wish to deactivate. (you didn't do that) If you have a suite then choosing one of the products will Deactivate the entire sute. (and you can activate too)
Select Deactivate Permanently

For troubleshooting information related to Adobe activation and deactivation, see Activation, Deactivation | Adobe Products.

This document contains information on common questions related to activation and deactivation such as:

- Uninstalled the software without deactivating it.
- No access to previous computer : Lost, Stolen, and crashed computers.
- Deactivation option is disabled.
- Options to contact Customer support. The page is Chat enabled. You will be able to chat with a person as soon as a tech support person is available.

Issues with the uninstaller? https://helpx.adobe.com/creative-cloud/kb/cc-cleaner-tool-installation-problems.html

How do I uninstall a previous version of Photoshop?

On Mac, go into the Photoshop application folder and double-click the “Uninstall Adobe Photoshop CS6” icon:
uninstall

On Windows, see: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows7/uninstall-or-change-a-program


I'll only speak for myself unlike you. Until this thread, I had no idea who Thom Hogan was. Sorry if I don't know who your preferred photo gods might be :-[ 
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digitaldog

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Re: Why Nobody Trusts Adobe
« Reply #63 on: November 29, 2015, 10:46:59 am »

  • The pace of innovation is slowing down.  LR and especially PS are mature products produced by mature teams, and the natural rate of innovation is going to decline.  In such cases, major innovation often comes from new companies.
I agree, the biggest worry I have is how Adobe's pace of innovation as well as much of the industry is slowing way down. But I started working with these products very early on (two months after the first version of Photoshop shipped), the pace of innovation was pretty staggering for 15+ years.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Why Nobody Trusts Adobe
« Reply #64 on: November 29, 2015, 10:59:20 am »

There may be some problems (where in life are there none), but the positive thing about the subscription model - in the case of LR - is that brilliant as this application is - there are a great many ways in which it can be further enhanced. Users are making useful suggestions all the time, and the company's scientists and engineers also have their bagfuls of good ideas. They take time to decide upon, try implementing, testing etc., so yes the pace of change will be gradual, but nonetheless I believe on-going and useful. With the subscription model, they release them to subscribers in small batches as they become available rather than waiting 18 months for a whole major program up-grade. I think this is to our benefit.

The cash flow implications for the company are not relevant to what I achieve from using the application - as long as they stay in business producing a good product (a reasonably safe bet), and in any case a matter of uncertain projections depending a lot on the expected timing of estimated inflows and outflows - a look at their SEC 10-K provides interesting insight, for those interested.

The one thing I would like to see them stop doing - much as I would have liked to see Microsoft stop doing years ago with Word and Excel, is introducing cosmetic changes for the sake of change which actually have the effect of reducing usability and productivity. Undoing perfectly satisfactory pieces of programming and replacing them with crap for the sole purpose of dumbing them down and faking progressive change is quite foolish and very annoying. In this regard, I really would like to see LR do a COMPLETE REVERSION to the old Import system - NO checkmarks on thumbnails, already catalogued images greyed-out and new ones showing in full brightness. This was so intuitive and so useful, but they wrecked it on both accounts. This kind of thing should not be allowed to happen, and for that they need MANAGEMENT in place to prevent it and keep a steady hand on the rudder. Otherwise LR remains an overall huge contribution to digital imaging, and I'm looking forward to more and better to come. E.G. when will we get catalog sync as easy as it is with "iTunes"?.
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PeterAit

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Re: Why Nobody Trusts Adobe
« Reply #65 on: November 29, 2015, 11:23:34 am »

I didn't read past the title which proposes to speak for everyone (Nobody trusts Adobe). A sure sign the piece should be ignored.

Anyone who interprets "nobody" literally to mean "not a single person" surely needs their thinker adjusted.

Which brings to mind a Yogi Berra quote: "Nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded."
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digitaldog

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Re: Why Nobody Trusts Adobe
« Reply #66 on: November 29, 2015, 12:22:21 pm »

The one thing I would like to see them stop doing - much as I would have liked to see Microsoft stop doing years ago with Word and Excel, is introducing cosmetic changes for the sake of change which actually have the effect of reducing usability and productivity.
Amen to that! The new Photoshop Export option comes to mind.
And it's going to get worse....
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digitaldog

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Re: Why Nobody Trusts Adobe
« Reply #67 on: November 29, 2015, 12:25:17 pm »

Anyone who interprets "nobody" literally to mean "not a single person" surely needs their thinker adjusted.
Words and their use are kind of important. I take people's language as literal, sorry. I've already suggested what could have been a much better use of language for Thom but the text was written to attract traffic to his blog and get unnecessary attention. It's rhetoric, not much more. 
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Why Nobody Trusts Adobe
« Reply #68 on: November 29, 2015, 12:57:36 pm »

Amen to that! The new Photoshop Export option comes to mind.
And it's going to get worse....

It may well, but it should be contained if enough users would engage in the various forums Adobe watches and tell them in no uncertain terms that frivolous change is not welcome. I believe that at some point the more intelligent companies DO pay attention to their customers. They are in this for the long term, and over the long term growth of competition is usually seen as a serious possibility regardless of incumbent advantage.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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digitaldog

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Re: Why Nobody Trusts Adobe
« Reply #69 on: November 29, 2015, 01:00:58 pm »

It may well, but it should be contained if enough users would engage in the various forums Adobe watches and tell them in no uncertain terms that frivolous change is not welcome. I believe that at some point the more intelligent companies DO pay attention to their customers. They are in this for the long term, and over the long term growth of competition is usually seen as a serious possibility regardless of incumbent advantage.
We'll see Mark. Without getting into NDA trouble, the recent example of Export in PS was pointed out well before it was released. We have the example of Lightroom's Import dialog mess. All I can do is scratch my head and wonder what the various product managers today are thinking or perhaps being forced to do. I long for former Adobe PM's like John Nack and Mark Hamburg.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Why Nobody Trusts Adobe
« Reply #70 on: November 29, 2015, 01:20:16 pm »

We'll see Mark. Without getting into NDA trouble, the recent example of Export in PS was pointed out well before it was released. We have the example of Lightroom's Import dialog mess. All I can do is scratch my head and wonder what the various product managers today are thinking or perhaps being forced to do. I long for former Adobe PM's like John Nack and Mark Hamburg.

Yes indeed Andrew, I too have good reason to understand the frustrations of that role. Part of the problem may be that Alpha testers and even Beta testers, regardless of the experience and expertise that got them to those levels, are a small enough number (and under fairly tight control) to be ignored if senior management has another mindset or agenda. Users, however, are huge numbers with spending power and unconstrained in respect of NDAs, so the best hope for improving corporate discipline is for many more users to become much more publicly engaged by letting the companies know what they like or dislike. The companies that don't listen become the dinosaurs of the industry and eventually fade - sometimes spectacularly. We've seen that already in this industry!
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Damon Lynch

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Re: Why Nobody Trusts Adobe
« Reply #71 on: November 29, 2015, 03:48:59 pm »

In software-speak Adobe are [maintaining[ LR & PS etc. When done well there's an art to it. I very much agree with the section "Only accept use cases" here: http://zee-nix.blogspot.com/2015/10/lessons-on-being-good-maintainer.html

One thing that piece doesn't mention is that users who are new to a program often have different insights to experienced users, especially those who have mastered it. Sometimes the new users' insights are extremely valuable, and are highly unlikely to be generated by a master or even moderately experienced user.  This is an inescapable fact we see in different domains, including social anthropology, where it is widely known. You can see it for yourself when you enter a new and to you strange culture. You notice important things that people who are familiar with the culture take for granted and therefore don't notice.

The conclusion is, listen to both experienced users and new users, and cater to both.
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PeterAit

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Re: Why Nobody Trusts Adobe
« Reply #72 on: November 30, 2015, 10:15:02 am »

I take people's language as literal, sorry.

Geez, you must get in a lot of trouble <g>!
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digitaldog

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Re: Why Nobody Trusts Adobe
« Reply #73 on: November 30, 2015, 10:50:04 am »

Geez, you must get in a lot of trouble <g>!
Just the opposite actually if it matters. I expect people to be good to their word(s).
Cardinal Richelieu used to say: “Give me six lines written by the most honorable of men, and I will find an excuse in them to hang him” 8)
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