Can a Toshiba Windows laptop monitor be part of a color managed workflow?

[earlybird]

Hi,
 I've been sending my files off for C printing and have been generally satisfied with the results. Sometimes I send in files as test strips and then make adjustments before requesting full scale prints. The service I use doesn't do any corrections to my files so the process works ok and I do not mind the turn around time. The service requests SRGB files so I have my Windows OS display set to the factory SRGB setting and I have Photoshop set to SRGB as well.
 One thing I seem to occasionally struggle with is a tendency to push the color towards a yellow cast. I have been using the test strips to inform me of the need to make adjustments. I like what I am seeing on the monitor and I do like warmer tones, but I have been wondering if taking better care of my monitor settings would help with this workflow. I use the laptop because I am always on the go and frequently working in different settings... which I understand undermines the benefits of working in a consistently lit environment.

 I'd consider buying a device to measure the monitor, environment, and test prints but am worried that after I do I will learn that I also need a monitor that is capable of using the info.

 Is there a way to work with Windows where I can globally manage the monitor so that the color space stays the same with all my apps?

 Finally, I think I may understand that SRGB is limited compared to many other choices of gamut, but I have been generally happy with the results with the service I use now so I would like to consider a baby step rather than a leap to a print service that works with a wider gamut and workflow. In other words, I would like to learn if I can make an improvement to my monitor display experience while targeting an SRGB print output.

 Thanks for any help.

 

[D Fosse]

I'd consider buying a device to measure the monitor, environment, and test prints

To be clear, laptop displays are unsuitable for critical color adjustments, whether it is calibrated/profiled or not. For one thing, most of them are so sensitive to viewing angle that only a thin central stripe is approximately "correct". This is the flip side of transportability and there isn't much you can do about that. There is a long way to a good, properly calibrated and profiled desktop monitor.

Some expensive laptops have decent displays. Although I'm strictly Windows myself, I'd recommend the MacBook Pro for the display alone. It's pretty good and should be workable as long as your expectations are realistic.

A calibrator is never wrong, it can only be an improvement. But you need to keep in mind that the calibrator makes a display profile that only color managed applications will actually use. So you get a difference between apps with, and apps without, color management. This is normal.

If you have default display profile set to sRGB, and you work with sRGB files, all color management in all applications that have it, is effectively disabled and null and void. So all your apps will be consistent (and wrong). A normal display color management chain is document profile converted into display profile - but if both are the same nothing happens and that's the definition of no color management.

Don't try to adjust the display for the environment, instead try to work under reasonably consistent conditions.

[mlewis]

To be clear, laptop displays are unsuitable for critical color adjustments, whether it is calibrated/profiled or not. For one thing, most of them are so sensitive to viewing angle that only a thin central stripe is approximately "correct".

That thin central stripe issue is a result of a TN screen which are also used in some monitors.  Not all laptops have TN screens either.  The cheaper ones definitely will as it is the cheapest LCD display type.

[AlterEgo]

To be clear, laptop displays are unsuitable for critical color adjustments, whether it is calibrated/profiled or not.

Lenovo it seems still have notebooks like W541 ( http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/w-series/w541/ )... that's not Eizo, but not TN panel either

[D Fosse]

Yes, all true. This is a characteristic of TN panels and most office/gaming screens use this also. Perhaps I should have been more precise (I decided to sacrifice precision for brevity).

It's also true that some laptops do have reasonably good IPS, even wide gamut, displays. But these are all expensive, which is why I recommended the MBP as perhaps the least expensive of these.

My main point, which perhaps didn't come through too well, is that the display is usually very low priority in laptops. The money is spent elsewhere. If you want a laptop with a decent display, you have to pay for it.

[earlybird]

Why isn't the use of a SRGB profile considered color management? Is it implicit that color management include measurements of environmental lighting?

The print service I use wants to receive SRGB files but they do provide profile for soft proofing. Does the use of the soft proofing profiles constitute "color management"? 

Finally, and I think this may be at the core of my original question, is color management for the monitor display only achieved through the use of custom profiles or do some hardware packages include a software application that runs on the operating system that provides adjustments etc.?

Every time I look in to this I stumble on the idea that it is not worth taking seriously with a laptop so I stall out on learning the details and go take more pictures to alleviate the headache. :-) 

Thank you.

[mlewis]

Why isn't the use of a SRGB profile considered color management?

Usning any colour profile (including sRGB) is part of colour management.

Is it implicit that color management include measurements of environmental lighting?

No.  Control of lighting is helpful though.

The print service I use wants to receive SRGB files but they do provide profile for soft proofing. Does the use of the soft proofing profiles constitute "color management"?

soft proofing is part of printing in a colour managed workflow.

Finally, and I think this may be at the core of my original question, is color management for the monitor display only achieved through the use of custom profiles or do some hardware packages include a software application that runs on the operating system that provides adjustments etc.?

Adjusting the physical display controls is the calibration part and the creation of monitor profiles is the profiling part.  The colour profile of the monitor is essential for colour management.

You don't mention ever having your screen calibrated.  This could easily be the cause of your yellow cast issue.  Your screen is probably too blue so you add yelllow to make it look right but on a properly set up system everything is now too yellow.

Whatever you do, monitor calibration kit is required to make sure you are seeing colours as accurately as possible on your screen.

[earlybird]

Thank you mlewis.

I have never used anything to measure this monitor. I am open to the idea of purchasing some device to do this. One of my most basic questions has been regarding the ability to actually make the necessary or suggested adjustments on my display. I am confused about how that is done. For example; is it done with hardware/firmware controls (which my laptop monitor doesn't have), a software application provided with a measure and calibration appliance package, the use of a custom color profile, or some combination of these ideas?

Thank you.

[earlybird]

Another question;

Within the context of sending SRGB files to print service (which uses a printer profile for the final output) is there any need for me to purchase anything more than a i1Display Pro?

I think it is finally dawning on me that I don't need, and can not use, a full display to print hardware calibration package because I am not operating the actual printer.

Does this mean I can start with just a Display profiling package and make some improvements?

Thank you.

[mlewis]

Thank you mlewis.

I have never used anything to measure this monitor. I am open to the idea of purchasing some device to do this. One of my most basic questions has been regarding the ability to actually make the necessary or suggested adjustments on my display. I am confused about how that is done. For example; is it done with hardware/firmware controls (which my laptop monitor doesn't have), a software application provided with a measure and calibration appliance package, the use of a custom color profile, or some combination of these ideas?

If you don't have any hardware controls for the monitor then the generated monitor profile will contain all the adjustments.  You will have a hardware brightness control though and that will need to be set to give you an appropriate monitor brightness.

Another question;

Within the context of sending SRGB files to print service (which uses a printer profile for the final output) is there any need for me to purchase anything more than a i1Display Pro?

No

Does this mean I can start with just a Display profiling package and make some improvements?

Yes

[earlybird]

Thank you for the helpful information. 

[earlybird]

Thanks again.

I have an Xrite i1Display pro shipping to our house. I'm very excited to move forward with better color management.

[mjdl]

You might also enjoy and profit from your new measurement device by reading the tutorials Elle Stone has written at http://ninedegreesbelow.com/photography/articles.html#icc-profile-color-management-tutorials

They've helped me understand the general ideas of colour management and the particular concepts and practices involved in it.

I should say I don't use the software that came with my device but use Graeme Gill's super-accurate ArgyllCMS command line colour management utility set automated by Florian Hoech's efficient GUI dispcalGUI on Windows. These programs--available for Windows/Mac/Linux computers--take much longer to calibrate/profile my laptop's wide gamut LCD than xRite's programs, but the results are excellent. The default type of profile produced has both a matrix part and an XYZ LUT part, so practically any color managed program on Windows will be compatible (apparently Mac users don't have this problem, since colour management is a system function of the OS). Hoech's website referenced above also has a colour management tutorial as part of his program's excellent user manual.

[earlybird]

Thanks I will read through it today.

I have read quite a bit about color management but was always left with the haunting feeling that if you didn't have a full featured monitor with hardware control that you would finish a calibration and be stuck somewhere short of the goal of seeing what you are supposed to see.

I have done the profiling and now I am curious to see how my next print order compares.

Thank you for the links and the info about the software you are using.