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Author Topic: Paris attacks  (Read 43374 times)

GrahamBy

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Re: Paris attacks
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2015, 11:49:16 am »

Stop crying and stop praying. Do something. Wipe them off the face of the Earth.

It worked so well as a response to 9/11. You might reflect on who are "they", how you might identify "them", and how it might relate to the US's most important provider of oil.

I'm out.
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Patricia Sheley

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Re: Paris attacks
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2015, 11:59:39 am »

When but two remain on devastated and scorched earth, the universe will not likely need to wait long in the measure of time before the sound of the first snarl...
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ynp

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Re: Paris attacks
« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2015, 12:11:02 pm »


Stop crying and stop praying. Do something. Wipe them off the face of the Earth.
+1


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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amolitor

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Re: Paris attacks
« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2015, 12:17:29 pm »

The Romans could teach us a thing or two. They were savage with their enemies and generous with their allies.

The west is neither. If you play ball with us we still take all your stuff and make you an indentured servant. And we're not particularly savage to our enemies.

This is in part because war is good business, and nobody in power ever wants the status quo to change.
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wmchauncey

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Re: Paris attacks
« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2015, 12:55:05 pm »

And God created mankind in his own image...certainly did a bang-up job of it...downhill ever since.

Name any time in the history of mankind that we did not kill each other over something as obscure as...
tribal affiliation/skin color/religion/whatnot.  It's ingrained/genetic.  Altruistic behavior is absent in today's world...for the most part.
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Justinr

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Re: Paris attacks
« Reply #25 on: November 14, 2015, 01:12:16 pm »

The Romans could teach us a thing or two. They were savage with their enemies and generous with their allies.

The west is neither. If you play ball with us we still take all your stuff and make you an indentured servant. And we're not particularly savage to our enemies.

This is in part because war is good business, and nobody in power ever wants the status quo to change.

Is 'the west' an empire, if so who is the emperor?
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landscapephoto

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Re: Paris attacks
« Reply #26 on: November 14, 2015, 01:13:29 pm »

Cute.

But no, most reasonable readers would understand that I clearly had in mind ISIS. And no, bombing is not the best or only thing we could do.

I understood that. I was just trying to make you understand that ISIS had a lot less to do with that attack that you thought. You think I am cute, I think you are naive. And you did not bother to look for the price of oil. May I suggest you look into the beginning of wahhabism instead? Why is Iran bombing ISIS?

OK. This is a photography forum and I cannot expect the average member to have knowledge of the history of the middle east or even to have knowledge of the social problems of France. But, please, try to get your info from something else than mainstream TV and newspapers. Get a few history books about the middle east or even just read the various wikipedia articles about the subject.

There. This is a photography forum, so maybe some photographic work about the middle east can educate you. Try this site and tell me what you see: http://www.joeyl.com/portfolio/category/guerrilla-fighters-of-kurdistan.
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wmchauncey

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Re: Paris attacks
« Reply #27 on: November 14, 2015, 01:43:21 pm »

I might submit that Mohammad recognized the futility of middle eastern civilization and tried to incorporate a medieval empire.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Paris attacks
« Reply #28 on: November 14, 2015, 04:42:14 pm »

... to make you understand...I think you are naive... you did not bother to look... May I suggest you look ...

... I cannot expect the average member to have knowledge of the history of the middle east or even to have knowledge of the social problems of France. But, please, try to get your info from something else than mainstream TV and newspapers. Get a few history books about the middle east or even just read the various wikipedia articles about the subject.

...educate you...

Thanks for the lecturing and patronizing tone. Since I post under my real name, my background is just a few clicks away online, so anyone can see how "uneducated" or "naive" I might be. For what it is worth, I lived, worked or visited 30+ countries on three continents. And sorry, I do not have a PhD in googling or Wikipedia, though I have some other, less reputable advanced degrees.

But all that doesn't really matter. So how about you simply state your point, instead of just mocking mine?

What's your point?

 


« Last Edit: November 14, 2015, 07:10:44 pm by Slobodan Blagojevic »
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Paris attacks
« Reply #29 on: November 14, 2015, 06:52:29 pm »

Ten years ago there was no ISIS. What was done incorrectly that helped give rise to them?

What is the purpose of western powers being in Syria, Iraq, Afgnanistan, etc? What's the end game of all the military interventions? What are we hoping to accomplish and how are our actions contributing to that end game?

We (the west and others) have been dropping bombs and shooting there for a few decades now (not to say a century). How are those places better now? How are we safer? Who benefits from it all?

I never hear these question asked, and they seem important to me. Last night I watched some of the CBC reportage about the Paris attacks. There was interview after interview with experts and ex-CSIS operatives, all the usual questions, and there was lots of the usual security blather that you always hear. It was a news program, of course, not an analysis program, but all the interviews sounded to me like an informercial for the security industry, private and public. Not one reporter or anchor asked why, after pouring lots of cash into the security apparatus for at least since 9/11, we seemingly aren't any safer now? What is it that we're doing wrong? Shouldn't we try to figure that out?

I can't help but notice the similarities of the middle-east "situation" to the so-called war on drugs. Been going on for a while now, the drug gangs are bigger, richer and more vicious, and there has never been even a hint of a decrease in drug trafficking. I'm not seeing any progress in either sphere, and my gut tells me that continuing to behave as we have been doing will not work any better in the future than in the past.

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Justinr

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Re: Paris attacks
« Reply #30 on: November 14, 2015, 07:04:45 pm »

Ten years ago there was no ISIS. What was done incorrectly that helped give rise to them?

What is the purpose of western powers being in Syria, Iraq, Afgnanistan, etc? What's the end game of all the military interventions? What are we hoping to accomplish and how are our actions contributing to that end game?

We (the west and others) have been dropping bombs and shooting there for a few decades now (not to say a century). How are those places better now? How are we safer? Who benefits from it all?

I never hear these question asked, and they seem important to me. Last night I watched some of the CBC reportage about the Paris attacks. There was interview after interview with experts and ex-CSIS operatives, all the usual questions, and there was lots of the usual security blather that you always hear. It was a news program, of course, not an analysis program, but all the interviews sounded to me like an informercial for the security industry, private and public. Not one reporter or anchor asked why, after pouring lots of cash into the security apparatus for at least since 9/11, we seemingly aren't any safer now? What is it that we're doing wrong? Shouldn't we try to figure that out?

I can't help but notice the similarities of the middle-east "situation" to the so-called war on drugs. Been going on for a while now, the drug gangs are bigger, richer and more vicious, and there has never been even a hint of a decrease in drug trafficking. I'm not seeing any progress in either sphere, and my gut tells me that continuing to behave as we have been doing will not work any better in the future than in the past.

I asked on here a while back just how may people would find themselves unemployed if the war on terror was declared as being won, and I'm still waiting for an answer.

It's big business alright and turkeys don't vote for Christmas.
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wmchauncey

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Re: Paris attacks
« Reply #31 on: November 14, 2015, 09:46:50 pm »

According to Wikipedia there are 5 major religions in the world plus 11 minor ones.
There is but one that craves the middle ages to the point that they want the world to revert backwards in time
and want to kill the rest of us to accomplish their goals.

Should we not begin to better arm them and allow them to start with themselves...no wait, that could lead to Armageddon.
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amolitor

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Re: Paris attacks
« Reply #32 on: November 14, 2015, 10:07:24 pm »

I count two, actually, which have violent atavistic sects which do not represent the mainstream but claim to loudly enough to alter the overall impression one gets.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Paris attacks
« Reply #33 on: November 14, 2015, 11:18:42 pm »

I think a lot of Americans are tired of spending our son's and daughter's blood and money on every problem in the world.  Maybe the French should do it for awhile.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Paris attacks
« Reply #34 on: November 14, 2015, 11:33:35 pm »

Ten years ago there was no ISIS. What was done incorrectly that helped give rise to them?...

The last seven of which were under the Junior Varsity Team Trainer's watch.

landscapephoto

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Re: Paris attacks
« Reply #35 on: November 15, 2015, 03:54:59 am »

Thanks for the lecturing and patronizing tone. Since I post under my real name, my background is just a few clicks away online, so anyone can see how "uneducated" or "naive" I might be. For what it is worth, I lived, worked or visited 30+ countries on three continents. And sorry, I do not have a PhD in googling or Wikipedia, though I have some other, less reputable advanced degrees.

But all that doesn't really matter. So how about you simply state your point, instead of just mocking mine?

What's your point?

You are the one advocating solutions taken out a Silvester Stallone movie here, not me. My point is just that people, not only you, should try to learn a bit about the history of the middle east to understand better what is going on. Obviously you are not interested, so I'll leave the discussion now.
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Paris attacks
« Reply #36 on: November 15, 2015, 04:30:31 am »

Hi,

What I talk about stopping supplies to terrorist organisations and groups. Any such effort must involve those states that act as sponsor states.

Well, checking out some articles, it seems that ISIS really has no friends in the region. This article on BBC essentially say that they are self financed: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-29004253

As it seems that nobody in the region supports ISIS, it may be very difficult to stop their supplies. It seems that they get financing by trading oil using murky channels. Some action may be possible in the banking sector.

I used to say that when the spirit is out of the bottle it is impossible to put it back.

Best regards
Erik




this is funny when you list the bloody dictatorship like SA here... you missed Qatar and others though.
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Justinr

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Re: Paris attacks
« Reply #37 on: November 15, 2015, 04:40:40 am »

According to Wikipedia there are 5 major religions in the world plus 11 minor ones.
There is but one that craves the middle ages to the point that they want the world to revert backwards in time
and want to kill the rest of us to accomplish their goals.
 
Should we not begin to better arm them and allow them to start with themselves...no wait, that could lead to Armageddon.

As I look around and note how society in the west is becoming increasingly unequal and more people than ever are facing poverty and a declining standard of living it might be argued that they are just being honest about it.
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stamper

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Re: Paris attacks
« Reply #38 on: November 15, 2015, 06:05:56 am »

A problem arises when a country colonises other countries, especially over a long period of time. The other countries don't like it and if they get the chance to get revenge then they or groups that support them seek revenge. Unfortunately the colonial leaders usually don't suffer but as in this case ordinary people. I don't see a solution to this. France was one of the worst colonial powers. They interfered in Vietnam before the US did.

http://thisisafrica.me/france-loots-former-colonies/

Jeremy Roussak

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Re: Paris attacks
« Reply #39 on: November 15, 2015, 07:52:20 am »

As I look around and note how society in the west is becoming increasingly unequal and more people than ever are facing poverty and a declining standard of living it might be argued that they are just being honest about it.

God only knows where you are looking.

1. Western society is not becoming increasingly unequal; on the contrary, excluding the trivial number of ludicrously wealthy, the gap between rich and poor is smaller than it has ever been.

2. It is not true that "more people than ever are facing poverty"; quite the reverse. The problem is with definition: if you define "poverty" relative to average wealth, then it becomes impossible ever to eradicate, and you are left with the ridiculous notion that a wealthy person who leaves the country decreases the number in "poverty" simply by leaving.

3. Standards of living are not declining.

Other than that, your "analysis" is spot on.

Jeremy
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